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SIAP: Ryan Bagwell racked up another win in the fight for the truth--

demlion

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2004
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this time he got an order from the Court of Common Pleas of Philadelphia regarding Frank Fina's emails.



Not sure what the significance of the 2013 dates is, but there is likely some good stuff there if it is a Frank Fina email and they want to keep it hidden. Will be interesting to see if Seth Williams appeals this order.



.
 
It's difficult to understand why a public office fights so hard to hide what a public employee is doing while on the public dime. OK, it's not difficult to understand if said employee is doing something shady but if that's the case why protect him at the expense of your own integrity?? When did public officials start seeing the population at large as an adversary??
 
Not to be flip about it, but they are doing it because they can. It IS possible that they are having this fight knowing full well there is nothing of interest in the emails requested, in order to set a precedent.

I should also say that it is no longer a question whether Ryan Bagwell is the MVP of this fight. they ought to name the award after him.
 
It's difficult to understand why a public office fights so hard to hide what a public employee is doing while on the public dime. OK, it's not difficult to understand if said employee is doing something shady but if that's the case why protect him at the expense of your own integrity?? When did public officials start seeing the population at large as an adversary??

Its that new kind of "transparency" thats all the rage, just ask some of our old and current BOTS.
If it wasn't so sad it would be funny.
 
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this time he got an order from the Court of Common Pleas of Philadelphia regarding Frank Fina's emails.



Not sure what the significance of the 2013 dates is, but there is likely some good stuff there if it is a Frank Fina email and they want to keep it hidden.



.

July 30, 2013 was the date Judge Wenner announced that C,S&S must face criminal trial. If there was any communications between Fina and Wenner, they would probably be in that preceding 6 month window.
 
It's difficult to understand why a public office fights so hard to hide what a public employee is doing while on the public dime. OK, it's not difficult to understand if said employee is doing something shady but if that's the case why protect him at the expense of your own integrity?? When did public officials start seeing the population at large as an adversary??

You mean you never did anything as a kid that you did not want your parents-the people who put you on this earth fed you clothed you and gave you shelter - from finding out?

It's the same principle; I did something bad and I don't want the people I rely on for my well being to find out.
 
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It's difficult to understand why a public office fights so hard to hide what a public employee is doing while on the public dime. OK, it's not difficult to understand if said employee is doing something shady but if that's the case why protect him at the expense of your own integrity?? When did public officials start seeing the population at large as an adversary??
Public officials no longer see themselves as public servants. They see themselves as American royalty. They are limoed around, fawned over, insulated by hordes of underlings, and hardly ever seriously pressed by an adversarial media and press.
 
July 30, 2013 was the date Judge Wenner announced that C,S&S must face criminal trial. If there was any communications between Fina and Wenner, they would probably be in that preceding 6 month window.
You are pretty well informed for a "pool boy." MeThinks you may be hiding a secret affair with your boss. ;)
 
Public officials no longer see themselves as public servants. They see themselves as American royalty. They are limoed around, fawned over, insulated by hordes of underlings, and hardly ever seriously pressed by an adversarial media and press.

How many occupations are there that determine their own salary and when they can give themselves raises? Not many.

Plus, they get so much per diem and travel allowances and vehicles for their use provided for.
 
You mean you never did anything as a kid that you did not want your parents-the people who put you on this earth fed you clothed you and gave you shelter - from finding out?

It's the same principle; I did something bad and I don't want the people I rely on for my well being to find out.
The big difference is I respected my parents and tried to hide things because I didn't want to disappoint them and/or get an ass whooping. OTOH, these people try to hide things because they have no respect whatsoever for the people who elect them.
 
Not to be flip about it, but they are doing it because they can. It IS possible that they are having this fight knowing full well there is nothing of interest in the emails requested, in order to set a precedent.

I should also say that it is no longer a question whether Ryan Bagwell is the MVP of this fight. they ought to name the award after him.

Retire Ryan's jersey
th
 
"The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings"

John Kennedy



"If governments did not mislead their citizens so often, there would be less need for secrecy, and if leaders knew they could not rely on keeping the public in the dark about what they are doing, they would have a powerful incentive to behave better."

Peter Singer

LOL...happy birthday...Mr Pwesident....

c3fd944d3082f6efb844e42844cab4d8.jpg
 
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Fina's "website browsing history." The odds of this site note being in his history is slim and none. What other sites will be in his history?
 
I should also say that it is no longer a question whether Ryan Bagwell is the MVP of this fight. they ought to name the award after him.
I'm still bummed he didn't get elected, likely in large part due to his decision to not seek the PS4RS endorsement. I still voted for him but I suspect most in PS4RS did not. Some members there liked to spread fear of "vote splitting" at the time, encouraging everyone to vote only for the 3 endorsed candidates otherwise there was a risk of the incumbents staying in place. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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I should hope most in PS4RS did not vote for Ryan when he was not on their slate. Vote splitting was a critical concern, especially the first year, but still important in the next two elections. That is not a reflection on Ryan at all. Most PS4RS members are very grateful to him for persevering like he has. Hopefully he will run again.

We need everybody.
 
I'm still bummed he didn't get elected, likely in large part due to his decision to not seek the PS4RS endorsement. I still voted for him but I suspect most in PS4RS did not. Some members there liked to spread fear of "vote splitting" at the time, encouraging everyone to vote only for the 3 endorsed candidates otherwise there was a risk of the incumbents staying in place. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not going to open old wounds, but there's a reason that Ryan didn't seek the PS4RS endorsement. It was unfortunate that he decided to blow up bridges.
 
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this time he got an order from the Court of Common Pleas of Philadelphia regarding Frank Fina's emails.



Not sure what the significance of the 2013 dates is, but there is likely some good stuff there if it is a Frank Fina email and they want to keep it hidden. Will be interesting to see if Seth Williams appeals this order.



.

Item 5 requests:
All records of network traffic emanating from the workstation of DAO employee Frank Fina between July 1, 2013 and September 31, 2013, including, but not limited to, website browsing history.

The timeframe coincides with the early stages of Moulton's review of the Sandusky investigation.

-----
Moulton report:
http://filesource.abacast.com/commo...EPORT_to_AG_ON_THE_SANDUSKY_INVESTIGATION.pdf

Appendix A of the Moulton report, starting at PDF page 171, includes back and forth letters between Moulton and Scott Ford, chief counsel for the Pennsylvania State Police.

The first letter is dated 7/19/2013 from Ford to Moulton, referencing an earlier discussion. Ford outlines significant concern over Moulton interviewing any police investigator involved with the Sandusky investigation. Ford included a list of questions to Moulton. Some highlights:

1.b. Could information provided in these interviews later be used in criminal prosecutions of the interviewees?

3.b. Will the interviewees be Mirandized?

8. Will the interviewees and PSP receive a complete copy of their interviews?

9. Will the interviewees and PSP receive a complete copy of your entire investigative record? [note - he's asking about the complete record, not just the final report]

Moulton replied to that in a letter dated 8/6/2011. In response to the above questions, Moulton stated the interviewees would not be Mirandized, the interviews would be memorialized in summary form as prepared by SAC Peifer, and because these would be summaries and not statements of witnesses, Moulton did not plan to share them. Moulton did state his review wasn't a criminal investigation and he did not have any reason to believe any PSP member engaged in criminal conduct, but he acknowledged if he discovered anything that he would share it with the appropriate authorities.

In this same letter he provided an initial witness list of those PSP members he planned to interview. [Of the thirteen names on that list, all refused to be interviewed except Frank Noonan. The list consisted of Rossman, Cavanugh, Akers, Lear, Ellis, Dombrosky, Reeves, R. Yakicic, M. Yakicic, Kofluk, Noonan, Leiter, and Watson.]

The next letter was 8/9/2013 from Ford to Moulton identifying that Ford met with the PSP members on Moulton's initial list. He said none (except Noonan) had an interest in being interviewed. Concerns about the ongoing investigation of Curley, Schultz, and Spanier were cited.

Moulton replied to Ford on 8/28/2013. Moulton stated: "As I told you at our meeting, PSP's decision not to cooperate at this point will seriously undermine my ability to give a complete account of the Sandusky investigation. The documentary records, as well as the interviews with other participants, have raised important questions that only PSP members can effectively answer." ***

Moulton went on to state: "Your letter explains that 'PSP wants to support your review out of a respect to the OAG and the long history of coordination between the two agencies,' but goes on to say that 'it will not do so at risk of jeopardizing on-going prosecutions.' As you and I have discussed, OAG - the institution directly responsible for those ongoing prosecutions - disagrees with PSP's assessment that interviews of PSP members would 'jeopardize' those prosecutions. The issues that I have been tasked to address, and the questions I would like to ask PSP members, are quite distinct from the guilt or innocence of Messrs. Curley, Schultz, and Spanier."


*** At page 108-109, Moulton states:
"An extensive review of the available documentary record, including contemporaneous OAG emails, together with interviews of OAG personnel involved in the investigation while Corbett was Attorney General, has revealed no direct evidence that electoral politics influenced any important decision made in the Sandusky investigation."

Moulton did NOT clear the investigation of political influence. He simply found no direct evidence for it.

Moulton explains he reviewed the available documentary record. The footnote on page 122 states: "This review did not seek or examine email or other documents from Corbett's campaign for Governor."

Moulton also states the lack of direct evidence is also based on interviews of involved OAG personnel. The footnote on page 125 mentions that he was unable to interview everyone involved in the investigation, in particular the police investigators. "When I asked Colonel Noonan during his interview whether he knew when the first inquiry of the Penn State or State College police took place he said he did not know, and when I asked him whether he would expect such an inquiry to be reflected in either OAG or PSP reports he said yes. Unfortunately, there was no such reference in the relevant reports, and because I was unable to interview the relevant investigators, I did not learn of the November 26 inquiry until receiving Col. Noonan's response to this report."

That particular footnote was in the section detailing the "inexplicable delays" in the investigation.

-----

What are the odds Fina received notice of Moulton's intent to interview these police investigators and sent emails to them advising them to refuse to participate?

-----
Ryan, Sheetz, Feathers, FINA, and McGettigan provided a combined response to the Moulton report before it was made public. See PDF pages 316-320. Similar to PSP counsel Ford, they bring up the charges against CS&S.

At page 318 they state: "The second gross mispresentation in the Report, worthy of immediate response, involves the alleged 'unfathomable' failure by investigators to uncover the Penn State University police report from the 1998 allegations against Sandusky. Indeed, the Report engages in an 'unfathomable' factual sleight-of-hand in this regard." They argue the university hid the police report. They also state: "While we are hesitant to detail all of the facts in this regard, due to the pending nature of the charges against Spanier, Schultz and Curley, it is clear from the allegations in that case the significant challenges that investigators faced in discovering the 1998 incident."

However, Moulton's criticism regarding inexplicable delays had to do with not asking either univeristy police or state college police for any police reports about Sandusky until more than 2 years into the investigation. When PSP finally did contact university police and state college police, they found the 1998 report immediately.

At page 65:
"On January 3, 2011, Cpl. Joseph A. Leiter and Tpr. Rossman went to the office of the Deputy Director of the Penn State Police Department, and asked for copies of all criminal reports relating to Sandusky. They did so independent of the grand jury subpoena issued the week before, even though their request was at least partially covered by the subpoena. The Deputy Director gave them a report that, like the information provided by McQueary, lent considerable support to the belief that Sandusky had victimized others besides A.F. On or about the same day, Tpr. Rossman and Cpl. Leiter went to the State College Police Department, which has jurisdiction over College Township where Sandusky lived, and asked for all incident reports referencing Sandusky. In addition to reports in which Sandusky was a witness or possible victim, they received a report relating to the 1998 investigation, in which the State College police had provided assistance to the Penn State police."
 
Last edited:
Item 5 requests:
All records of network traffic emanating from the workstation of DAO employee Frank Fina between July 1, 2013 and September 31, 2013, including, but not limited to, website browsing history.

The timeframe coincides with the early stages of Moulton's review of the Sandusky investigation.

-----
Moulton report:
http://filesource.abacast.com/commo...EPORT_to_AG_ON_THE_SANDUSKY_INVESTIGATION.pdf

Appendix A of the Moulton report, starting at PDF page 171, includes back and forth letters between Moulton and Scott Ford, chief counsel for the Pennsylvania State Police.

The first letter is dated 7/19/2013 from Ford to Moulton, referencing an earlier discussion. Ford outlines significant concern over Moulton interviewing any police investigator involved with the Sandusky investigation. Ford included a list of questions to Moulton. Some highlights:

1.b. Could information provided in these interviews later be used in criminal prosecutions of the interviewees?

3.b. Will the interviewees be Mirandized?

8. Will the interviewees and PSP receive a complete copy of their interviews?

9. Will the interviewees and PSP receive a complete copy of your entire investigative record? [note - he's asking about the complete record, not just the final report]

Moulton replied to that in a letter dated 8/6/2011. In response to the above questions, Moulton stated the interviewees would not be Mirandized, the interviews would be memorialized in summary form as prepared by SAC Peifer, and because these would be summaries and not statements of witnesses, Moulton did not plan to share them. Moulton did state his review wasn't a criminal investigation and he did not have any reason to believe any PSP member engaged in criminal conduct, but he acknowledged if he discovered anything that he would share it with the appropriate authorities.

In this same letter he provided an initial witness list of those PSP members he planned to interview. [Of the thirteen names on that list, all refused to be interviewed except Frank Noonan. The list insisted of Rossman, Cavanugh, Akers, Lear, Ellis, Dombrosky, Reeves, R. Yakicic, M. Yakicic, Kofluk, Noonan, Leiter, and Watson.]

The next letter was 8/9/2013 from Ford to Moulton identifying that Ford met with the PSP members on Moulton's initial list. He said none (except Noonan) had an interest in being interviewed. Concerns about the ongoing investigation of Curley, Schultz, and Spanier were cited.

Moulton replied to Ford on 8/28/2013. Moulton stated: "As I told you at our meeting, PSP's decision not to cooperate at this point will seriously undermine my ability to give a complete account of the Sandusky investigation. The documentary records, as well as the interviews with other participants, have raised important questions that only PSP members can effectively answer." ***

Moulton went on to state: "Your letter explains that 'PSP wants to support your review out of a respect to the OAG and the long history of coordination between the two agencies,' but goes on to say that 'it will not do so at risk of jeopardizing on-going prosecutions.' As you and I have discussed, OAG - the institution directly responsible for those ongoing prosecutions - disagrees with PSP's assessment that interviews of PSP members would 'jeopardize' those prosecutions. The issues that I have been tasked to address, and the questions I would like to ask PSP members, are quite distinct from the guilt or innocence of Messrs. Curley, Schultz, and Spanier."


*** At page 108-109, Moulton states:
"An extensive review of the available documentary record, including contemporaneous OAG emails, together with interviews of OAG personnel involved in the investigation while Corbett was Attorney General, has revealed no direct evidence that electoral politics influenced any important decision made in the Sandusky investigation."

Moulton did NOT clear the investigation of political influence. He simply found no direct evidence for it.

Moulton explains he reviewed the available documentary record. The footnote on page 122 states: "This review did not seek or examine email or other documents from Corbett's campaign for Governor."

Moulton also states the lack of direct evidence is also based on interviews of involved OAG personnel. The footnote on page 125 mentions that he was unable to interview everyone involved in the investigation, in particular the police investigators. "When I asked Colonel Noonan during his interview whether he knew when the first inquiry of the Penn State or State College police took place he said he did not know, and when I asked him whether he would expect such an inquiry to be reflected in either OAG or PSP reports he said yes. Unfortunately, there was no such reference in the relevant reports, and because I was unable to interview the relevant investigators, I did not learn of the November 26 inquiry until receiving Col. Noonan's response to this report."

That particular footnote was in the section detailing the "inexplicable delays" in the investigation.

-----

What are the odds Fina received notice of Moulton's intent to interview these police investigators and sent emails to them advising them to refuse to participate?

-----
Ryan, Sheetz, Feathers, FINA, and McGettigan provided a combined response to the Moulton report before it was made public. See PDF pages 316-320. Similar to PSP counsel Ford, they bring up the charges against CS&S.

At page 318 they state: "The second gross mispresentation in the Report, worthy of immediate response, involves the alleged 'unfathomable' failure by investigators to uncover the Penn State University police report from the 1998 allegations against Sandusky. Indeed, the Report engages in an 'unfathomable' factual sleight-of-hand in this regard." They argue the university hid the police report. They also state: "While we are hesitant to detail all of the facts in this regard, due to the pending nature of the charges against Spanier, Schultz and Curley, it is clear from the allegations in that case the significant challenges that investigators faced in discovering the 1998 incident."

However, Moulton's criticism regarding inexplicable delays had to do with not asking either univeristy police or state college police for any police reports about Sandusky until more than 2 years into the investigation. When PSP finally did contact university police and state college police, they found the 1998 report immediately.

At page 65:
"On January 3, 2011, Cpl. Joseph A. Leiter and Tpr. Rossman went to the office of the Deputy Director of the Penn State Police Department, and asked for copies of all criminal reports relating to Sandusky. They did so independent of the grand jury subpoena issued the week before, even though their request was at least partially covered by the subpoena. The Deputy Director gave them a report that, like the information provided by McQueary, lent considerable support to the belief that Sandusky had victimized others besides A.F. On or about the same day, Tpr. Rossman and Cpl. Leiter went to the State College Police Department, which has jurisdiction over College Township where Sandusky lived, and asked for all incident reports referencing Sandusky. In addition to reports in which Sandusky was a witness or possible victim, they received a report relating to the 1998 investigation, in which the State College police had provided assistance to the Penn State police."
What are the odds Fina received notice of Moulton's intent to interview these police investigators and sent emails to them advising them to refuse to participate?

Point taken.
 
Ryan, Sheetz, Feathers, FINA, and McGettigan provided a combined response to the Moulton report before it was made public. See PDF pages 316-320. Similar to PSP counsel Ford, they bring up the charges against CS&S.

At page 318 they state: "The second gross mispresentation in the Report, worthy of immediate response, involves the alleged 'unfathomable' failure by investigators to uncover the Penn State University police report from the 1998 allegations against Sandusky. Indeed, the Report engages in an 'unfathomable' factual sleight-of-hand in this regard." They argue the university hid the police report. They also state: "While we are hesitant to detail all of the facts in this regard, due to the pending nature of the charges against Spanier, Schultz and Curley, it is clear from the allegations in that case the significant challenges that investigators faced in discovering the 1998 incident."

However, Moulton's criticism regarding inexplicable delays had to do with not asking either univeristy police or state college police for any police reports about Sandusky until more than 2 years into the investigation. When PSP finally did contact university police and state college police, they found the 1998 report immediately.

At page 65:
"On January 3, 2011, Cpl. Joseph A. Leiter and Tpr. Rossman went to the office of the Deputy Director of the Penn State Police Department, and asked for copies of all criminal reports relating to Sandusky. They did so independent of the grand jury subpoena issued the week before, even though their request was at least partially covered by the subpoena. The Deputy Director gave them a report that, like the information provided by McQueary, lent considerable support to the belief that Sandusky had victimized others besides A.F. On or about the same day, Tpr. Rossman and Cpl. Leiter went to the State College Police Department, which has jurisdiction over College Township where Sandusky lived, and asked for all incident reports referencing Sandusky. In addition to reports in which Sandusky was a witness or possible victim, they received a report relating to the 1998 investigation, in which the State College police had provided assistance to the Penn State police."
There's those two names again, Rossman and Leiter. @JmmyW, do you know if those two ever alleged that PSU was uncooperative in providing access to the 1998 report?
 
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