I agree it is not truth and justice annymore it is "the ends justify the means" in the judicial world. Just look at our President trying to influence the supreme court. They all do it, back to FDR.
Not trying to make this political thread.
SIAP.........what is the proper way to handle this (video of walmart fight)????
- Thread starter Michael.Felli
- Start date
I agree it is not truth and justice annymore it is "the ends justify the means" in the judicial world. Just look at our President trying to influence the supreme court. They all do it, back to FDR.
Not trying to make this political thread.
Yes. Absolutely.
And in the tradition of "The enemy of my enemy is suddenly my friend," these two crazies now become united in kicking your ass.
As I have said in EVERY SINGLE post already I think, there is no need to touch anyone or separate anyone at all. It is a false statement to suggest physical intervention is the only way out of this, and since that poverty of ideas serves those witnesses' inherent unwillingness to get involved, they walk away. The kid learns nothing. The women learn nothing. the bystanders learn nothing. The same thing happens again the next day.
Everyone approaches it in a binary fashion: either you get in there and start kicking ass, or you walk away. FOR THE FIFTH TIME, I AM SAYING THERE ARE OTHER WAYS. Very little human interaction is binary. Often people see the world as binary in order to avoid doing the right thing. When a statute is proposed to fix some injustice, we often hear, as an argument against it, that it will not 100% fix the problem. Is a 80% fix of a bad situation a terrible thing? In what world of pretend logic is that so?
Considering the numbers of ambulance chasers in this country today, staying out of something like this is the ONLY way to go. Personally, I was hoping they would kill each other and rid the world of two cretins.
V
Very true last paragraph. You can hear the bystanders say don't touch them or you'll be involved with a lawsuit. The 'sue over everything' culture is having its fallout effects.
You can green dot away- you weren't going to stop that. Here's a lady who is running around the store on a scooter (I'm sure with some disability claim) that suddenly can get up, walk, run, and participate in a fight down the aisle- as able bodied as anyone else at that store. Then you see her out of control 7 (?) year old helping in the fight at the mothers request and stomping down the entire aisle in a fit of rage to tell off bystanders who were trying to stop him. His behavior is an absolute mirror to that of the mother (and possibly father). You see how she teaches her kid to tell adults they can't tell him what to do (he can do whatever he wants) and then go back and re- enter the fight.
The issue here isn't green dot or how to react to this pathetic behavior. The lawyers have made this a stand and watch or video event with the ambulance chaser type stuff over the years. The real issue here is the unacceptable behavior of the adults- in their fighting, likely lying about disability, and the way at least the one is raising her kid(s).
The real focus shouldn't be on the reaction of the crowd. It should be on why society accepts this type behavior by the "ladies".
Very true last paragraph. You can hear the bystanders say don't touch them or you'll be involved with a lawsuit. The 'sue over everything' culture is having its fallout effects.
You can green dot away- you weren't going to stop that. Here's a lady who is running around the store on a scooter (I'm sure with some disability claim) that suddenly can get up, walk, run, and participate in a fight down the aisle- as able bodied as anyone else at that store. Then you see her out of control 7 (?) year old helping in the fight at the mothers request and stomping down the entire aisle in a fit of rage to tell off bystanders who were trying to stop him. His behavior is an absolute mirror to that of the mother (and possibly father). You see how she teaches her kid to tell adults they can't tell him what to do (he can do whatever he wants) and then go back and re- enter the fight.
The issue here isn't green dot or how to react to this pathetic behavior. The lawyers have made this a stand and watch or video event with the ambulance chaser type stuff over the years. The real issue here is the unacceptable behavior of the adults- in their fighting, likely lying about disability, and the way at least the one is raising her kid(s).
The real focus shouldn't be on the reaction of the crowd. It should be on why society accepts this type behavior by the "ladies".
I say let them fight to the death. Survival of the fittest. We need to thin out the herd anyway. 
I understand what you're saying but, you have to be very careful when intervening in a fight between people you don't know. I've seen a couple of guys, in separate situations, say something to a dude that was getting loud and handsy with his girlfriend and then the guys rage gets directed at the good samaritan. One of the times both the guy and the girl started attacking him. In this situation, I with you in making comments about the police of cps but, the best thing that happened was that someone filmed the incident. These two women will now have to answer for there behavior. Without the video most likely these two women would just go on with their lives with no consequences.
God, I love your gal....she looks smarter & much more elegant than the three I posted. Can you get her to reveal just a little more.
looks great in 1200X1600 pixels
Nobody is saying you have to intervene physically or do anything that is an attempt to suggest that you are going to intervene physically. There are other ways, and everyone knows at least SOME other ways, but to the extent you claim to yourself that physically intervening is the only way to intervene, you let yourself off the hook. These situations are never binary. There are always more than 2 options.
You say their conduct is unacceptable, but you accept it by saying lawyers have made bystanders powerless to do ANYTHING. There are lots of things you can do which do not involve touching anyone. Every pedophile who ever abused a bunch of kids thanks you. Every domestic abuser who beat his wife or kids half to death thanks you. Your insistence on seeing this as binary and ANY kind of intervention as somehow illegal or legally risky is just exactly the reaction they need to continue harming innocent people. By deciding to do nothing, you have made a choice which suits their modus operandi perfectly. BTW, the Old Guard PSU BOT thanks you also.
I didn't say there were only two options. I said you have to be careful and make a judgement call. Just verbally intervening in a domestic dispute between two people you don't know can get you killed. I even agreed with you that verbally intervening during the walmart fight was a reasonable judgement to make. I just pointed out that filming it may have been the best option because neither woman appeared to care what anyone was saying and now both women will be held accountable because of video evidence.
I agree it was a good idea to film it, but of course you can bet the guy would probably say when the cops asked for the video, "I don't want to get involved." I also agree (and have been saying all day) that there is TRAINING you can get to help you make a better judgment call. You have not seen me advocating physical intervention or even verbal intervention prior to the fight. And, it is also possible that the cops have been called while the video is running, but we do not know. A couple of men could have shooed that kid away so that at least HE could not commit crimes upon the victim, but as you say that takes judgment. I do think once the kid was shooed out of sight his mother might well have stopped fighting to find him. I was not disagreeing with you so much as using your post to make the point that there are always lots of excuses not to act.
This thread is a perfect example of the mindset that results in nothing ever being done.
A lot of what ifs in there. What if you shoo the kid away and his Dad comes up and straight up knocks you out from behind or pulls a gun on you for talking to his kid or shooing him away? A good judgement call today is call the cops, take the video, and stay away from the crazy people. If you want to play hero and intervene in a non life threatening event, I think you should do that every time. Meanwhile other should do as they feel in this situation. The simple fact that a child that young reacted like that tells you right away there is a ton wrong with this picture. Play hero all you want to, but society has changed in the last few decades.
I don't blame people for one second for not breaking up two gross women rolling around on the floor. Had they been hot you bet your sweet arse someone may have jumped in. That is what sound judgement is for.
A lot of what ifs in there. What if you shoo the kid away and his Dad comes up and straight up knocks you out from behind or pulls a gun on you for talking to his kid or shooing him away? A good judgement call today is call the cops, take the video, and stay away from the crazy people. If you want to play hero and intervene in a non life threatening event, I think you should do that every time. Meanwhile other should do as they feel in this situation. The simple fact that a child that young reacted like that tells you right away there is a ton wrong with this picture. Play hero all you want to, but society has changed in the last few decades.
I don't blame people for one second for not breaking up two gross women rolling around on the floor. Had they been hot you bet your sweet arse someone may have jumped in. That is what sound judgement is for.
You must not have read the thread. There are still lots of things that could have been done, but apparently were not. You cannot complain about it or deplore it and say nobody should do anything. If you think nobody should do anything, then you are fine with what happened, except you want to have that both ways. You can't.
Obli: Felt compelled to comment on your post, above. I think it's a bit facile to say that the problem is the legal profession.
We have an adversary system for conducting trials (both criminal and civil) in this country. The premise is that you have each party (prosecution and defense, or plaintiff and defendant) present its side of the story, and then rely on an impartial judge or jury (after hearing both sides of the story) to decide what the truth is, and how the issue should be resolved. An inevitable consequence of the adversary system is conflict between the lawyers trying the case. That will, in some cases, prompt unethical lawyers to introduce questionable or false testimony or evidence. They should be punished, severely, for that. But there are unethical people in every profession. Would you prefer the French system of justice, where the judge serves as both investigator and arbiter?
Well I could take the PC moral high ground online, but that would be pretty dishonest.
Or, you could simultaneously say nothing could be done and complain that nobody ever does anything.
Again, you can play the moral PC card all day long online, it's easy. I would have stopped them both, adopted the kid, and saved the world. Awesome. I control what I can and I'm not too worried about those gems as someone had already raised them. It's a fun topic for discussion, but yelling hey stop while I called the cops wasn't fixing those social problems.
Thanks...I understand the court system and how it works. But we've seen a creeping problem with prosecutions over the last couple of decades. At Penn St., we've seen kids get prosecuted for taking a bike out of a dumpster, not having a bike light on and shooting an arrow into a dorm room wall. I've got a friend who spanked his child in a Home Depot (after his six year old repeatedly climbed up the shelves) and had CYS called on him (which took him several months to rectify). I have a friend who was mortified to find that a person wanted to press charges against him after a little girl jumped into his arms after scoring a soccer goal and he put his hands on her butt to hold her up (accuser had video). He was charged, which is on his record, but they were ultimately dropped.
I've got a friend who was kicked out of the electrical worker's union because his live-in GF's brother buried his stash of drugs behind his garage. (possession)
I've am familiar with a gal that lent her bank debit card to a friend (to buy something for her when she had the flu) and the friend deposited a fake check (xerox copy) and then withdrew the money from an ATM (to get drug money). The cops charged her with a felony (because the friend used the money to buy heroin and they wanted her to flip, at great risk, on the dealer). She plead to a misdemeanor but got tossed out of nursing school as a result.
Another person I know was given a debit card by a friend in order to buy gift cards. What she didn't know was that the debit card was opened by the woman on her husband's account illegally. Since the husband didn't want to charge his wife, and can't be compelled to testify, he charged the friend in order to not have to pay for the purchases. She also plead to a misdemeanor and is not employable for any good jobs for a couple of years (assuming she clears probation).
I battle patent trolls every day. These people know they have no case, but the cost to fight it will go north of $25,000 so you simply settle. The more cases they file, the more they make.
In the end, the legal profession has lost sight of common sense. I am out of order? You are out of order!!! My wife is an attorney and cannot believe the stupid things that they do that ruin lives. Can you believe getting caught with MJ in most states can keep you from being gainfully employed in many professions?
In the end, the entire system, both criminal and civil, are out of control. Innocent people are being irreparably harmed and smart criminals get away scot free.
Or we can pretend this sort of thing is not a problem and it will get worse. Like I said above, "How's that working out for us?"
I tell you how it works for me, I don't shop at Wallmart. And, I have to say, its a reason why our cities suffer while the 'burbs grow and prosper. Every regions highest growth (that isn't govt subsidized) is on the first exit out of every major city's county.
If you are going to WalMart for beef, then I suppose you are also going to Giant Eagle for their selection of cheap bedroom furniture.
I have no idea on how it is working out for you as there is no us unless my wife stole your handle and password. I'm not pretending there isn't bat s**t crazy people on this planet. There are plenty of them. I'm just not pretending I care about two middle aged slobs fighting at Walmart when I would never see them again. I'm not going to high five myself for a BS answer online because it's PC either. That is just me and I'm sure you feel your doing some good with this thread.
Felli asked what people should do about this sort of thing. I know what should be done, so I told him. I am sure if you had said anything but what you said it would have been BS in addition to being foolish. Pretty sure I already knew you would not do anything other than deplore the conduct and advise walking away.
Oh, you got me with a hypothetical PC scenario. You're a super hero in this thread.
Good grief, go back at this thread, read how many times your preached...I mean replied and then ask yourself what good you are really doing the world wasting time in this thread. You could be out saving some more folks. LOL. Pretend super heros online are just that .....pretend. Maybe it's time I step out now as apparently this is super important to you...way more so than it is to me.
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Not really interested in justifying myself to you.Oh, you got me with a hypothetical PC scenario. You're a super hero in this thread.
Give me a break. You certainly have the talent (?) to exaggerate and twist what people say. Enough already.
hey smart ass where I live there are 4 basic options to buy food, since beef for the most part is graded, it would matter where you buy. We have 1) Wal mart with food 2) Krogers (a food chain) 3) Sam's club 4) the local guy who never has anything and is usually 3 x the price. That said, if I lived back in Pa there are 10 options all better than what I just said. In fact when we return home I usually take a cooler and stock up the best I can. There is a place outside of Minersville which has some of the best meat I've ever eaten and about 1/2 the price of the best price I can find around here. They also have a stand at the Farmers market down near Orwigsburg. I am sure if you go to the Leesport market, you could find even better. But don't get me started about Leesport market and the Amish, who basically go down to the docks in Philly in the am and buy what comes off the boat (vegetables) They usually sell out first, as everybody knows the Amish have the best vegetables!! LOL What else?? And I told your comment as a joke BTW.
Just remembered the place outside Minersville- Mar Lynn (Lin) market. I did find a website one time, but last I knew the didn't ship!! Go check them out!!
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