Sinead O'Connor... dead at 56.
- Thread starter LionDeNittany
- Start date
awful. she's had a really tough life and her 17 year old son took his own life. She was really messed up but a great artist.
Interesting that she considered getting the Number 1 song a great failure. Someone that was tortured by themselves.
Actually she was one of the very first "alternative" artists...predated Nirvana and all that by 3 years.
Let me be the first to blame her demise on COVID vaccine. 
This will trigger some on here who can’t bear to have their beloved church criticized, but she was one of the first to take on the Catholic Church over its shameful coverups of child abuse - and she got pilloried for it (and called crazy).
Brings to mind these great lines from the Emperor’s New Clothes:
“Everyone can see what's going on
They laugh 'cause they know they're untouchable
Not because what I said was wrong
Whatever it may bring
I will live by my own policies
I will sleep with a clear conscience
I will sleep in peace”
Brings to mind these great lines from the Emperor’s New Clothes:
“Everyone can see what's going on
They laugh 'cause they know they're untouchable
Not because what I said was wrong
Whatever it may bring
I will live by my own policies
I will sleep with a clear conscience
I will sleep in peace”
More than music, she will be remembered for the personal strength and sacrifice to confront church's abuse on SNL. I'll never forget her ripping up Pope's picture, followed by the outcry from Italian Catholics. She was persecuted and booed off stage Joe Pesci goes on the SNL following week and says he would slap her. The crowd all cheered. 10 years later, no one was f-in laughing as we all had stories of molester clergy. The religious nuttery in this country disgusts me. RIP Sinead. Thanks for giving children victims a voice.
And what did it do other than destroy her career? Many of the Hollywood elites and celebrities need to realize there are better ways to bring about change.
Sounds like this was written about our current government.
Umm, it caused uproar which led to documentaries in Ireland on abuses at churches and convents. It sent shockwaves throughout Irish government and church and landed on-shore here too in 2001 since so many priests around Boston were Irish as well. The spotlight investigation uncovered unbelievable Church child abuse which has been extrapolated to every corner of globe. This went on for hundreds of years. Thank god for Hollywood elites in this respect. There is no other way than immediate sunlight. If your child, what would you do?
It seems that the incidence rate for sexual abuse is amongst the highest in the hollywood elite circles. I'm not thanking them for anything.
Then don't. She was hardly Hollywood elite. Call her whatever you want but it won't dismiss fact that she probably saved thousands of kids from church abuse
I don't have anything against her. I was responding to your statement "Thank god for Hollywood elites in this respect." Because it seems to me that hollywood is rampant with sexual abuse and in particular a lot of pedophilia.
What a lame excuse/rationalization for whitewashing the horrific abuses of children by priests and the resultant cover-ups by the Catholic Church. I can't wait for your dismissal of the slaughter of the indigenous peoples of the America's by their Catholic conquistators.
You are either dumb or dishonest. I make no excuse or rationalization for any abuses of children by priests, politicians, Hollywood elites, or anyone. What exactly would make you interpret what I wrote as making an excuse for anyone?
As someone who has lost a child I can pity her like many here will, but also understand why she may have acted to end her liife. Even having other children, the loss of one can drive your mind to places that those who aren't "in the club" can never imagine. Suicidal thoughts being one of them...which in "our" circles people accept as "normal."
Sinead lived through some very challenging circumstanes, and while I was never a fan of her music, and as an Irish Catholic son of a former nun, was initially offput by her Pope stunt, the fact of the matter is that she was right and way ahead of the curve.
Her activism probably made a greater difference for the world than any song she released, and she probably could care less about the loss of "fame" or trashing her career. Hollywood Elite is a catchphrase that is overused to oversimplify things. I'm no movie fan or starf_cker so I don't give a rat's ass what Kevin Costner- one of Hollywood's most elite who happens to be on the far right, nor any other "9Snowflake" on the far left thinks.
In the end she died of massive heartbreak which I hope none of you experience, coupled with a tortured past. She leaves living children who likely are wondering why they weren't "good enough" to keep mom alive.
It is a tragic, sordid tale that has nothing to do with the messed up politics of our day. She likely offed herself to make the pain stop. I know that pain and it is more than you can imagine. I hope it worked out for her, but as her life seemed to go...her relief only begets more pain for her loved ones.
RIP
Sinead lived through some very challenging circumstanes, and while I was never a fan of her music, and as an Irish Catholic son of a former nun, was initially offput by her Pope stunt, the fact of the matter is that she was right and way ahead of the curve.
Her activism probably made a greater difference for the world than any song she released, and she probably could care less about the loss of "fame" or trashing her career. Hollywood Elite is a catchphrase that is overused to oversimplify things. I'm no movie fan or starf_cker so I don't give a rat's ass what Kevin Costner- one of Hollywood's most elite who happens to be on the far right, nor any other "9Snowflake" on the far left thinks.
In the end she died of massive heartbreak which I hope none of you experience, coupled with a tortured past. She leaves living children who likely are wondering why they weren't "good enough" to keep mom alive.
It is a tragic, sordid tale that has nothing to do with the messed up politics of our day. She likely offed herself to make the pain stop. I know that pain and it is more than you can imagine. I hope it worked out for her, but as her life seemed to go...her relief only begets more pain for her loved ones.
RIP
I will play along, but need some specific instances of “slaughter” of indigenous people for reference.
That’s an interesting interpretation on history. While far from perfect by a long shot, the Catholic Church has done more to preserve and champion western values than any institution. Take western values for granted at your own peril.
I see she converted to Islam. Great choice for those espousing equality for women.
May God rest her soul.
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You whitewashed the reality of rampant child abuse by priests by
You could start with "The Four Voyages of Columbus". Then perhaps continue by reading any of the dozens of history books that describe in great detail the incredible carnage from both the sword and disease inflicted upon the native populaces of both Central America and the American Southwest. Some populations were nearly wiped out, as the goals of the Spanish (supported by the Church) became accumulating wealth (gold, silver and slave labor) and religious conversation (with the option for those not doing so being death). You might also want to read more about the corrupt European popes during the Medieval periods in Europe (when wealth and power could buy almost any favor from them) and The Inquisition, when even questioning the Church led to horrible torture and death.
It is not my intent to stir anti-Catholic feelings, and I apologize if my comments come off that way, but when people choose to ignore the incredible hypocrisy and litany of horrors of the Catholic Church over much of the past 2000 years --- yes, it gets my attention. That said, I have tremendous respect for devoted Catholics who retain their deep religious faith, but are willing to acknowledge "the sins of the past", and work toward establishing a Church where they no longer exist. It sounds almost too much like a trite cliche, but truly many of my closet friends are open minded Catholics. Closed minded Catholics who refute historical facts --- not so much.
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You tried to shift the focus and narrative away from the Catholic Church by implying that the bigger sexual abuse problem was among the Hollywood elites. I believe the discussion was on the topic of child sexual abuse, not adult sexual abuse. The Harvey Weinstein's and Jeffrey Epstein's of the world are disgusting, but the abuse of children worldwide which was deliberately hidden by the Catholic Church has been "beyond" disgusting.
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Wrong. I made an isolated comment in response to another poster thanking God for Hollywood elites. You are an idiot. Were you abused by a priest or something that this would trigger you?
Another one of those moral judgements we made in the 80s and 90s that have had to be reassessed. At the time virtually everybody (I among them) thought Sinead O'Connor was crazy to be tearing up the Pope's picture.
But what we weren't aware of was that the Republic of Ireland at the time was STILL a highly repressive Catholic theocracy essentially controlled by Rome. The Pope actually had way more influence in Ireland than he had in Italy. Ireland was poor and backward.
The church controlled all public education and most health care. For unmarried women, getting pregnant was basically a life sentence of abuse (no sanctions for the men, of course). The government didn't legalize contraceptives until freaking 1985! The Catholic priesthood that had its grip on the country was arrogant and abused people mercilessly, especially when anyone dared challenge them.
With radicals like O'Connor leading the way, Ireland finally threw off the yoke of theocracy and joined the modern world, and you would be hard pressed to find a single person in Ireland who doesn't think life is a better now.
So I think a lot of Americans still don't get her but in Ireland there is more understanding of what she was about.
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Always enjoy when the anti-Catholicism comes masked in “Pope-control” and “imminent theocracies.” Long tradition of this bigotry in parts of Europe and it migrated to USA.
Take a look around in “right track/wrong track” statistics and devastation of USA’s inner cities when religion of any kind has moved out. Fatherless families? Out of control crime? Yes, all the secularity had been a wonderful boon for everyone!
As a parent who also lost a son, (8 years tomorrow), I agree with this. The pain is excruciating and the thought of letting go in order to stop this pain is a temptation I felt many times and came close to acting on it. No one can possibly understand the depth of this hell unless they experience it firsthand.
Living Hell is actually a very good descriptor. Any day can be immediately derailed. I wish you and yours as good of an anniversary day as possible- they are rough. Our daughter died on 4/20 and our family has turned it into a party day like the kids do...I will never work on that day.
We also get together on her birthday every year which is coming up on 8/12. Heading to Fire Island to be with our son, GF and her grandparents who own an old school cottage there. Last year was LA. The year before was at home. The year before that was Lewes, De, LA was the first year...
It was there that we actually found some hope. I taught Migrant Education for 10 Summers. When my boss found out that we were heading to the Angel City she suggested we go to lunch at the rooftop deck of The SIXTY Hotel in Beverly Hills. Great view, pool, and the best frozen drinks she said. I replied that if I could afford to go to such a place, then I wouldn't be working for her the past couple of years.
She said her hubby went to UCLA B School w the owners and that they were minority partners. " Just go!"
We went almost out of guilt on our way back to my cousins' place in the Valley after a few days alone at a neat Air BnB in Venice. We were greeted like Kings, there was a cabana reserved for us on the rooftop with our names on a sign. Aspiring models and actresses were lining the pool deck in thongs. And our waiter immediately welcomed us, expressed his sympathy for our loss, and told us to order as much of whatever we wanted to eat and drink and that we are only responsible for tipping him. WOW! Many people ask if "there is anything I can do for you?" Very few make things happen. WOW.
On that afternoon, overlooking the Hollywood sign, a day after what would've been her 19th Bday, the three of us felt light for the first time in months.
Surviving isn't easy, but there are now more and more good days to balance our plight.
Godspeed tomorrow to you and yours.
Cheers!
Great story and hopefully all of you find peace. It’s truly amaze what a few great people can do.
Reading through this, I see praise for the deceased to make the effort to stands up for children harmed by a relatively popular religion.
It’s too bad she failed at what should have been her main responsibility after making 4 children of her own.
May her tortured self RIP.
It’s too bad she failed at what should have been her main responsibility after making 4 children of her own.
May her tortured self RIP.
I never hated John Paul but outside of being anti-communist he was really not a good guy. He didn't give a s--- about children being raped or women being imprisoned for life. Before you defend Papal control of civilian life, why don't you read about Tuam. And consider that Ireland, under Catholic control, had places like Tuam all over the country. Would you want to live under that?
And as a father of 3 I totally agree that children growing up without fathers (or mothers) is sad -- for the kids and the fathers. But turning your country over to a Catholic theocracy doesn't do anything to solve that problem. Human beings still have sex, unwanted children are still born (a lot more of them if you ban birth control as Ireland did). And if you're a poor backward country you have no resources to handle all the unwanted children, so you let them die of hunger and disease in warehouses like Tuam and bury them in mass graves.
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The interesting thing is that prior to the Catholic Church scandal in the early 2000s, many gay activists were quite open about having sex with underage boys and wanting ages of consent reduced. Take Harvey Milk for example. Also, the feminist play “Vagina Monologues” used to have a scene where a 13 year old girl described being abused by an older woman as a “good rape”
It was only after the scandal broke that gay activists had to suddenly be against child sex abuse to order to declare themselves in order to declare themselves to be morally superior to (what is perceived as) a conservative institution.
I suspect that attitude may be changing back to the pre-scandal state once again, considering all the accusations of “Qanon” to conservatives opposed to the sexualization of kids.
Many people also have the misconception that the Catholic Church scandal mostly consisted of little boys being molested. While that did certainly occur, most of the cases were gay priests engaged in complaint acts with gay teenagers. Not much different than liberal Hollywood.
It's hard to escape our upbringing. No matter how well our intentions are. Outside looking in...nah. I'm not going to judge.
I understand your perspective and agree that taking care of our children is our primary responsibility. We made 'em- we should care for them.
We have very close friends who have 3 surviving children.....yet somehow they can only focus on the one who passed away of an undiagnosed heart issue that lead to a heart attack while their son drove in Center City Philly. Luckily he pulled to the side of the road and nobody else was hurt. They are trying all sorts of ways to reconcile their grief- with little success.
Parents who lose kids tend to have health issues (both me with a blood pressure spike out of nowhere- never had any issues- apparently was close to a heart attack or stroke and my wife who fell down our stairs and broke 15 bones in her face/ multiple concussions/loss of teeth while in "the fog"), they often get divorced, and many turn to drinking/drugs etc to confront the pain.
Suicide is also an escape that all have probably considered, and some follow through on (as the earlier poster commented). Other than thinking about what it would feel like if I jumped from a balcony or over the rim of the Grand Canyon (I have a terrible fear of heights) I never, ever thought at all about self harm. After my daughter died I absolutely did. In the end we live for our son and the belief that we will see our daughter again- AND that she would be really pissed at us if we succumbed to the demons inside.
"Failing" is a strong word that you should hope that you never are put to the test on. There is nothing rational during the ensuing grief of such loss. Hell- I don't really remember the first few months at all. I look back at some of the shoddy work I did and wonder "what was I thinking?" The answer is I wasn't.
I too hope that her tortured soul rests in peace.
Well said. I’m not in your position, but am taking care of 2 sons with severe special needs. Hard to take care of myself when my main focus by far is helping them the best I can
Where did I defend “papal control”. Or advocate turning over our country to Catholic theocracy? Good grief.
She won't be missed. Very unfortunate that homosexual pedophiles were able to operate within the Church and did so much damage.
Minus John Paul2 (and RR and Margaret Thatcher), it is possible we would have list the Cold War. What would that have meant? You may get the opportunity to find out with the Chinese.
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