Is it that difficult?
Meh. My point remains unchanged. I'm incredibly unimpressed by Heil.
So is it gonna be Lee or Cortez at 141?
- Thread starter NittanyChris
- Start date
Meh. My point remains unchanged. I'm incredibly unimpressed by Heil.
Two championships in 3 years, as a Junior. Going for #3 this coming year, which would make him only the 31st all-time with 3 or 4 Championships. Rare territory.
Dislike his wrestling style all you want. The accomplishments are impressive.
Dislike his wrestling style all you want. The accomplishments are impressive.
I'll go out on a limb and say he doesn't get #3. Doesn't feel like a long limb at all.
Anyone that can keep the score close with him and catch him last second
I think the new rules will be his undoing. If he can no longer go to his back without giving up a score I can see several guys being very capable of beating him.
Nick lee lost to zach synon who was missouris 3rd string 41 pounder last year in February and also lost to Sam turner in freestyle who honestly I never heard of until the lee match. Lee is a great prospect but I think it's crazy for anyone to predict him as a top four 41 pounder this year. Cortez will probably start and I think he'll surprise a lot of people, he's a great talent when healthy.
I believe new interpretations will beat Heil. I don't see him going undefeated again he ain't no Zain or Nolf. I am willing to put up $100.00 to NLWC and a copy of the Tognelli pic (if ever received) any takers? BTW I won't mind writing the check so I can't really lose the bet.
He's def underrated for his accomplishments. Just the way I see it when he's in a close match with another elite wrestler he has Aces and the other guys has ace king and they are both all in. His hand is going to win 90% of the time and 10% of the time he will lose. Just so happens his hand has held up more times then Normal and eventually if his matches keep being close he may get a bad beat from the AK.
Deja Vu all over again
. Much of the wrestling world, minus the Cowboys, didn't think he'd win last year. Count me among those that thought, of the #1 seeds, he was among the most likely to lose. As strong as you feel, I'm guessing you were there too. How'd that work out?I'm not a fan of his style, but can't find anything to knock on his results.
Yes, he lost to Synon. Nick, in what would have been his HS senior year, losing to a 5th year senior and 2 time NCAA qualifier in his first folkstyle tournament in almost a year, doesn't concern me too much. As for freestyle you can point to that loss but you can also point to his win over Alan Waters.
Last thing is they did not predict him top 4 but said he is definitely in the conversation.
Man would I love to be a 2x returning NC going for #3! Kudos to Dean Heil. If you've watching him wrestle all through HS and College he is what he is. He's a kid who figures out a way to win pretty much every match. It may not be our preferred style of wrestling but I give the kid his props. Anybody can lose a match but betting against Heil is a foolish bet. The kid's a winner any way you slice it.
Well said, AllTheWay!! I wonder how the new rule will affect his "style". Hanging on to an ankle, and held at 90 degrees or less for 3 seconds, and it's a takedown for the offensive wrestler, starting this year. My opinion is that he'll figure it out, and won't put himself in that position nearly as often, we'll see...he was the first guy I thought of when the new rule was approved.
There are plenty of ways & words to give Dean Heil his proper due, without even touching his 'style'.
Consistent Winner? Check.
2x National Champ? Check.
Extremely Difficult Opponent? Check.
Dominant? Hold your horses.
The Wrestling Community *loves* the word dominant. But there is no shortage of actually dominant wrestlers, so there's really no need to over- or mis-use it. Additionally, and more importantly, scoreboard rules have long been structured in ways to ease our declaration of dominance. Did you win by 7 pts or fewer? Ok, you get a Decision. Did you win by 8-14pts? Major Decision. 15pts or more? Technical Superiority (Freestyle with the big nomenclature win here, over Folkstyle's Technical Fall). Did you pin your opponent? Like, physically dominate him to his back & stick him there? Pin, Fall, whatever you like.
Statisticians have found a nice way to present these by rolling them all into one group called Bonus Percentage, which has its problems when trying to distinguish between two different dominant wrestlers, but it works well enough for Heil:
Let's give Dean Heil all the due he's due from what he does and has done.
But let's keep it real. And keep the best word in Wrestling's lexicon reserved for those who actually are.
Consistent Winner? Check.
2x National Champ? Check.
Extremely Difficult Opponent? Check.
Dominant? Hold your horses.
The Wrestling Community *loves* the word dominant. But there is no shortage of actually dominant wrestlers, so there's really no need to over- or mis-use it. Additionally, and more importantly, scoreboard rules have long been structured in ways to ease our declaration of dominance. Did you win by 7 pts or fewer? Ok, you get a Decision. Did you win by 8-14pts? Major Decision. 15pts or more? Technical Superiority (Freestyle with the big nomenclature win here, over Folkstyle's Technical Fall). Did you pin your opponent? Like, physically dominate him to his back & stick him there? Pin, Fall, whatever you like.
Statisticians have found a nice way to present these by rolling them all into one group called Bonus Percentage, which has its problems when trying to distinguish between two different dominant wrestlers, but it works well enough for Heil:
Let's give Dean Heil all the due he's due from what he does and has done.
But let's keep it real. And keep the best word in Wrestling's lexicon reserved for those who actually are.
Hadn't looked up his 2016-17 results...41% Bonus higher than expected? Yes, for me.There are plenty of ways & words to give Dean Heil his proper due, without even touching his 'style'.
Consistent Winner? Check.
2x National Champ? Check.
Extremely Difficult Opponent? Check.
Dominant? Hold your horses.
The Wrestling Community *loves* the word dominant. But there is no shortage of actually dominant wrestlers, so there's really no need to over- or mis-use it. Additionally, and more importantly, scoreboard rules have long been structured in ways to ease our declaration of dominance. Did you win by 7 pts or fewer? Ok, you get a Decision. Did you win by 8-14pts? Major Decision. 15pts or more? Technical Superiority (Freestyle with the big nomenclature win here, over Folkstyle's Technical Fall). Did you pin your opponent? Like, physically dominate him to his back & stick him there? Pin, Fall, whatever you like.
Statisticians have found a nice way to present these by rolling them all into one group called Bonus Percentage, which has its problems when trying to distinguish between two different dominant wrestlers, but it works well enough for Heil:
Let's give Dean Heil all the due he's due from what he does and has done.
But let's keep it real. And keep the best word in Wrestling's lexicon reserved for those who actually are.
I guess I look at BPP a little differently. A BPP of 40% means you're bonusing kids from Oklahoma City College, Oklahoma Central, etc. A BPP of 80% means you're bonusing those guys, plus a lot of ranked guys. Above that, and you're running the gamut of UR to top 5 guys. Higher than 40% BPP should simply be expected of a 2xer.
The bad thing in my eyes is he has some great offense, when he uses it. Hopefully this year....
That's the sticking point: I don't see anyone nearly at Gwiz's level. Maybe someone has a trick up his sleeve like Eierman?
If the answer is McKenna, then I'm rooting for Heil -- team first! -- then showering in bleach.
If the NCAA were awake (insert punchline here), this would be the Delgado Rule.
3 National Champs had Bonus Point percentages in the 40's (percentage-wise). I understand your point, though it's not a great measure to determine NC-caliber wrestling...which is what Heil is, and what this discussion is about.
Both good (and intriguing) questions. The beat-you-by-a-point, high-octane-offense-is-optional, wrestling "style" did bite Tony Nelson, though we later learned that Gwiz was a special talent.
As far as this year's Gwiz (though I'm not El-Jefe) could come from the 141 ranks...say Ashnault or McKenna (or Hayes [changed] if the flip happens).
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That's assuming the ref's will strictly enforce the new rule, we have too many rules currently, that are not evenly enforced, for me to make that assumption.
Jordan will be 157, the flip is Hayes. With very little to base my opinion on other than team bias I think Nick Lee is closer to Gwiz then Hayes.
It depends on what you mean by respect. If you mean respecting the fact he's won 2 titles. Fine, I'll give him that.
If you define it as thinking he's a good bet to win his third. Nope. Consider me disrespectful. I'll take the field at 141 over Heil.
Are you taking Heil?
Look, I don't like his style at all. Every time he wrestles, I think he is going to lose that match, but he wins. I have to take Heil until someone steps up and beats him.
I think I could live with being the worst 3 time champ ever.
Being the most annoying 4 time champ doesn't seem to bother Dake one little bit.
Or the craftiest 3x champ, as he will have overcome new rules designed specifically to stop him from winning the way he did the first 2x.
I'm still curious to know who this other 141 in the room is that will be staking claim to the spot. I'm assuming Bo Pipher but is he really at the level of a Nick Lee?
There's gotta be an idea for a Dake tshirt in there somewhere.
Pipher is pretty damn good. His family is wrestling royalty in Colorado. His uncle Chuck Pipher was a 3 time NCAA div 2 champion and his cousin Charlie was a div 2 national runner up for Western State college. Bo's father Andy was a national champion and 4 time all-American at CSU-Pueblo and has been a top coach in the state until he just retired after this past season. I know it's a big step up but Bo might just do it. His uncle Chuck is one of the best coaches that I have ever been around.
