So, someone please talk me off the ledge about the o-line this year...

[NittanyChris]

Perhaps this topic has been beaten to death, but the o-line was so horrendous last season, that it's still scary.
Will someone please put forth a logical argument as to why there will be massive improvement this season? Because it will take massive improvement for them just to be less than average. And having one more year of experience is not going to cut it as an argument. When you're as bad as they were last year it takes a lot more than one years experience.
I am normally a glass half-full kind a guy, but I'm just having trouble seeing it. Help me out.

 

[CappyToCJF]

Perhaps this topic has been beaten to death, but the o-line was so horrendous last season, that it's still scary.
Will someone please put forth a logical argument as to why there will be massive improvement this season? Because it will take massive improvement for them just to be less than average. And having one more year of experience is not going to cut it as an argument. When you're as bad as they were last year it takes a lot more than one years experience.
I am normally a glass half-full kind a guy, but I'm just having trouble seeing it. Help me out.

• I don't agree that one year of experience, along with another year of physical development, can not yield a jump from horrible to average. These are 19-21 year olds for the most part. Even in the NFL OLinemen make great jumps in level of play between their rookie and second years.
• Reihmer and Palmer may, if they both start, represent 40% of the line as new, experienced players.
• There will be many more OLinemen practicing this year, and competition breeds improvement, as well as the possibility that a young player could emerge as a surprise starter/contributor.
• The additional numbers will give the staff the opportunity to sit players that are injured. The lack of quality depth last yr caused players to play injured and was also a factor in the overall average level of play last year

Just a few thoughts as I wait for a hair cut.......

The road to high level play for the OL is longer than for all other positions, but progress will be made given the young talent coming into the program

 

[Nittany Security]

Don't jump.

 

[NittanyChris]

I'll give you an A for effort, though I remain unconvinced. Even though he gained some weight, Palmer's performance in the spring game indicated severe deficits in his skills. I realize the depth will help, so there's that.
I just think we need some major new blood on that line in order to be hopeful. Aside from Reihmer, are there any other new faces that may be surprise major contributors THIS season?

 

[ejb25]

If you don't think a year of experience matters, then you already made up your mind. Experience is one of the most important factors for online development. There is no point to talk about it til the season starts, because there is no convincing you otherwise.

 

[NittanyChris]

I never said that a year of experience wouldn't help. The question is would it help enough? Given how absolutely horrific the line was last year, I think that's a valid question.

 

[scueng77]

I'll take a jump from horrific to below average.

 

[BBrown]

Perhaps this topic has been beaten to death, but the o-line was so horrendous last season, that it's still scary.
Will someone please put forth a logical argument as to why there will be massive improvement this season? Because it will take massive improvement for them just to be less than average. And having one more year of experience is not going to cut it as an argument. When you're as bad as they were last year it takes a lot more than one years experience.
I am normally a glass half-full kind a guy, but I'm just having trouble seeing it. Help me out.

Well to start with if even without "massive" Improvement and we are just a below avg. O-line instead of a bad one I think that would result in at least 2 more wins.
So saying that here are my reasons why I think this O-line will be better.

1.) Experience. Sorry if that doesn't meet your criteria but its HUGE.
It means another year in the weight room, understanding the techniques and system better and now they are stronger.

2.) Health and an actual depth chart. They will actually get to practice at their respective positions and have backups.

3.) the X factor. as bad as last years line was there were holes and corners that our backs either couldn't get to or see. I think that changes this year with a stable of RB's that are not forced to play out of position.

4.) Wr's that are older, bigger, stronger and faster and understand the system better. Hack will be able to find them quicker and thus make the line look better.

5.) TE's better blockers and that will improve everything.

6.) Hack. He's older, smarter and now the coaches know how good he can be.
The let him run the O and it makes the defense really off balance.

 

[65psu65]

Perhaps this topic has been beaten to death, but the o-line was so horrendous last season, that it's still scary.
Will someone please put forth a logical argument as to why there will be massive improvement this season? Because it will take massive improvement for them just to be less than average. And having one more year of experience is not going to cut it as an argument. When you're as bad as they were last year it takes a lot more than one years experience.
I am normally a glass half-full kind a guy, but I'm just having trouble seeing it. Help me out.

We will be better at 4 out of 5 spots. 5th spot unfortunately is the most important. Even if the line only cleans up the mental errors from last year they should be significantly improved.

 

[lionlurker]

Some of these kids were highly rated recruits, and some of them have brains. I think we will be OK.

 

[BlueBand]

Perhaps this topic has been beaten to death, but the o-line was so horrendous last season, that it's still scary.
Will someone please put forth a logical argument as to why there will be massive improvement this season? Because it will take massive improvement for them just to be less than average. And having one more year of experience is not going to cut it as an argument. When you're as bad as they were last year it takes a lot more than one years experience.
I am normally a glass half-full kind a guy, but I'm just having trouble seeing it. Help me out.

Nope, can't do it. Until they show me something to give me hope. However, I've already resigned myself to it, so join me behind the ledge with a glass 1/4 full. If they still suck, I'll stay where I'm at. If they are massively improved, I'll enjoy the glass getting fuller. If they are better than average, I'll enjoy running from the ledge.

 

[BBrown]

I'll give you an A for effort, though I remain unconvinced. Even though he gained some weight, Palmer's performance in the spring game indicated severe deficits in his skills. I realize the depth will help, so there's that.
I just think we need some major new blood on that line in order to be hopeful. Aside from Reihmer, are there any other new faces that may be surprise major contributors THIS season?

Geez dude, Palmer had been on campus for all of about a month before the B&W game. You think maybe he wasn't quite up to speed. And I won't even mention that the Defense had a decided advantage in the B&W game.

 

[thecoolestfish]

Perhaps this topic has been beaten to death, but the o-line was so horrendous last season, that it's still scary.
Will someone please put forth a logical argument as to why there will be massive improvement this season? Because it will take massive improvement for them just to be less than average. And having one more year of experience is not going to cut it as an argument. When you're as bad as they were last year it takes a lot more than one years experience.
I am normally a glass half-full kind a guy, but I'm just having trouble seeing it. Help me out.

Just want to throw it out there that I too share your pessimism/concern. And I too am usually a glass half full, optimistic guy.

 

[fairgambit]

Just remember, no matter how bad things get, they could be worse. You could be a Rutgers fan.

 

[PennStateNate]

Geez dude, Palmer had been on campus for all of about a month before the B&W game. You think maybe he wasn't quite up to speed. And I won't even mention that the Defense had a decided advantage in the B&W game.

Palmer will be fine, but what does being on campus got to do with ability to play football. Football is football.

 

[mn78psu83]

Perhaps this topic has been beaten to death, but the o-line was so horrendous last season, that it's still scary.
Will someone please put forth a logical argument as to why there will be massive improvement this season? Because it will take massive improvement for them just to be less than average. And having one more year of experience is not going to cut it as an argument. When you're as bad as they were last year it takes a lot more than one years experience.
I am normally a glass half-full kind a guy, but I'm just having trouble seeing it. Help me out.

I'm pessimistic too.

 

[dawgduice]

I have been back and forth with my opinion about the OL. I'm actually very optimistic ."today". Why? the year of experience and physical growth makes a world of difference. In our bowl game BC started an all senior line, notice they ran better on our D than any other team we played. OSU kept talking about their "young" OL, yet of the 10 players on their two deep 7 were in the program for at least 3 years. We on the other hand had a bunch of "kids" going against men. That is not the case this year, plus we do not play against any big time D line in our first 6 games (Temple has the best line we will face). That schedule will only make the OL that much better.
We will have a pretty good idea if there was any improvement after our first game. We are only a 4 point pick against Temple. I guess Vegas has questions about our OL as well.
I think we will win 10 games this year. I am actually more concerned with the kicking game than the OL.

 

[shak66_psu]

Perhaps this topic has been beaten to death, but the o-line was so horrendous last season, that it's still scary.
Will someone please put forth a logical argument as to why there will be massive improvement this season? Because it will take massive improvement for them just to be less than average. And having one more year of experience is not going to cut it as an argument. When you're as bad as they were last year it takes a lot more than one years experience.
I am normally a glass half-full kind a guy, but I'm just having trouble seeing it. Help me out.

Our preseason schedule lasts until mid-October... even though a 2nd string line may be all we gots, I think we'll survive

 

[BBrown]

Palmer will be fine, but what does being on campus got to do with ability to play football. Football is football.

I don't know I guess knowing the play book might help but hey thats just a guess.

 

[GregInPitt]

We will be better at 4 out of 5 spots. 5th spot unfortunately is the most important. Even if the line only cleans up the mental errors from last year they should be significantly improved.

I agree that Palmer is an unknown. But if he does not progress, by all reports we will then see a combo of Nelson (may move left) and Brosnan. And don't discount Sorrell, Beh, and Wright (I know Wright is practicing at Guard, but he is a year older and plenty big to play OG - I'm thinking he's not as quick as the others, more of a road grader olinemen...) So Palmer is not the only options - it's not all riding on him, although I think Hand knows what he is doing and Hand saw enough of Palmer when he recruited him so that he believe Palmer will play and be a good olinemen...

Lots of reasons in this thread why the oline should be much improved. AND some reasons (better RB's, better blocking TE's....) why even marginal improvement in OL play will lead to much better offensive production and improved statistics for Hack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[NittanyChris]

I think some folks are forgetting just how abysmal the o-line was last season. Of course there were legitimate reasons why, but in my 37 or so years of watching PSU football, they were undoubtedly the worst. By a WIDE margin.
On the bright side, I think our defense could be even better this year. A top-five defense in the country. And, the schedule will give the line some much needed time to develop and gain even more experience.

 

[BBrown]

I think some folks are forgetting just how abysmal the o-line was last season. Of course there were legitimate reasons why, but in my 37 or so years of watching PSU football, they were undoubtedly the worst. By a WIDE margin.
On the bright side, I think our defense could be even better this year. A top-five defense in the country. And, the schedule will give the line some much needed time to develop and gain even more experience.

Frankly I don't think any of us are forgetting how just "abysmally bad the O-line was last season". That alone is why there is hope for this year. You can either choose to ignore everyone that responded in this thread and jump or not.

 

[blion72]

I think this is the area everyone feels the greatest uncertainty about. We lost by far the best of the OL players, and at maybe the most critical pass protection spot. I thought the OL was fairly "young", but last year the OSU line claimed to be younger than our guys - not sure if they meant class or true age. I ignore the red shirt year when it comes to considering age. I think that makes
Nelson = junior
Gaia = senior
Mangiro = 5th year senior
Dowery = 5th year senior
Mahon = junior
Palmer = junior
Reihner = 5th year senior

I actually thought we might see one of the sophs/RS FR appearing or even a true FR given the quality of talent. this would be a year where the younger high talent players could move into playing time.

 

[NittanyChris]

Frankly I don't think any of us are forgetting how just "abysmally bad the O-line was last season". That alone is why there is hope for this year.
You can either choose to ignore everyone that responded in this thread and jump or not.

You are certainly free to have a different opinion than I, but if you think that some of the reasons people supplied here proves my doubts to be unfounded, or invalid, you're sadly mistaken.

 

[BBrown]

I think this is the area everyone feels the greatest uncertainty about. We lost by far the best of the OL players, and at maybe the most critical pass protection spot. I thought the OL was fairly "young", but last year the OSU line claimed to be younger than our guys - not sure if they meant class or true age. I ignore the red shirt year when it comes to considering age. I think that makes
Nelson = junior
Gaia = senior
Mangiro = 5th year senior
Dowery = 5th year senior
Mahon = junior
Palmer = junior
Reihner = 5th year senior

I actually thought we might see one of the sophs/RS FR appearing or even a true FR given the quality of talent. this would be a year where the younger high talent players could move into playing time.

Its true that we did lose the best of our O-liman in Smith last year but frankly, and this is just my opinion, I'm not sure he was ever more than 70% healthy the entire season. If you remember there was even a question of him starting the first game against UCF.
Not sure what to say about the OSU line. I guess they may have been younger but did they have 2 Defensive players move over in the spring to play the O-line?

 

[BBrown]

You are certainly free to have a different opinion than I, but if you think that some of the reasons people supplied here proves my doubts to be unfounded, or invalid, you're sadly mistaken.

Your original post asked for a "logical argument" I think we provided that. Outside of that I can't help you because I don't think your fears or doubt are unfounded. I just tried to help answer your original question.

 

[GregInPitt]

I think some folks are forgetting just how abysmal the o-line was last season. Of course there were legitimate reasons why, but in my 37 or so years of watching PSU football, they were undoubtedly the worst. By a WIDE margin.
On the bright side, I think our defense could be even better this year. A top-five defense in the country. And, the schedule will give the line some much needed time to develop and gain even more experience.

Yea, and when ur that bad noticeable improvement is much easier to accomplish.......

 

[GregInPitt]

I think this is the area everyone feels the greatest uncertainty about. We lost by far the best of the OL players, and at maybe the most critical pass protection spot. I thought the OL was fairly "young", but last year the OSU line claimed to be younger than our guys - not sure if they meant class or true age. I ignore the red shirt year when it comes to considering age. I think that makes
Nelson = junior
Gaia = senior
Mangiro = 5th year senior
Dowery = 5th year senior
Mahon = junior
Palmer = junior
Reihner = 5th year senior

I actually thought we might see one of the sophs/RS FR appearing or even a true FR given the quality of talent. this would be a year where the younger high talent players could move into playing time.

Yes we lost the player that was by far our best OLinemen. But Smith played hurt much of the year so I don't think he was a big a positive performance wise that you do. If you have even one NFL lineman playing in college you should be able to run behind him at least on some plays. i.e if the rest of your OL players are not blocking each other.... (just kidding).

But the fact that our OL this year is a lot less likely to be blocking each other is another reason for optimism for improved performance!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, Dowrey and Gaia are both RS Juniors, Seniors for your presentation.

 

[psute]

It looked to me like the O line in the Pinstripe bore little resemblance to the O line in the early season....

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Our preseason schedule lasts until mid-October... even though a 2nd string line may be all we gots, I think we'll survive

 

[TU_NY]

I have been back and forth with my opinion about the OL. I'm actually very optimistic ."today". Why? the year of experience and physical growth makes a world of difference. In our bowl game BC started an all senior line, notice they ran better on our D than any other team we played. OSU kept talking about their "young" OL, yet of the 10 players on their two deep 7 were in the program for at least 3 years. We on the other hand had a bunch of "kids" going against men. That is not the case this year, plus we do not play against any big time D line in our first 6 games (Temple has the best line we will face). That schedule will only make the OL that much better.
We will have a pretty good idea if there was any improvement after our first game. We are only a 4 point pick against Temple. I guess Vegas has questions about our OL as well.
I think we will win 10 games this year. I am actually more concerned with the kicking game than the OL.

Temple defense has NFL talent at DL, LB and DB. Could very well be the best defense the Nits face all season; OOC or otherwise.

 

[bjf1984]

Temple defense has NFL talent at DL, LB and DB. Could very well be the best defense the Nits face all season; OOC or otherwise.

O M G

Apparently RUTGERSAL has transferred to that school west of the Jersey/PA border.

 

[jimarnp]

Perhaps this topic has been beaten to death, but the o-line was so horrendous last season, that it's still scary.
Will someone please put forth a logical argument as to why there will be massive improvement this season? Because it will take massive improvement for them just to be less than average. And having one more year of experience is not going to cut it as an argument. When you're as bad as they were last year it takes a lot more than one years experience.
I am normally a glass half-full kind a guy, but I'm just having trouble seeing it. Help me out.

Wouldn't logic dictate that all but 1 O lineman coming back might indicate improvement? Even if we're dealing with marginal player AND coaching ability ( I don't subscribe to either).....there should still be at least some improvement. Couple that with a full year playing together , a full year in the new offense, and the Luxury of playing /practicing with a viable 2 deep ( this is very important!!).--- Left tackle will tell the tale, but overall, this O line will be at least somewhat improved. ---In addition, there are now multiple skill position weapons available.....most with 1 year of familiarity with the offense ( Huge!) ---I don't know how much the O line will progress, but if it gets worse or stays the same.....that would indicate ineptness on either the players or coaches part..........not out of the realm of possibilities, but not logical (IMO) given the assets on hand.

 

[gogolion]

CJF talked in his press conference about the effects of having a 2 deep on the Oline. One big one, which I don't think anyone has mentioned directly on this thread is how last year if someone went down with an injury guys had to switch positions. This year, with a viable 2-deep we can just bring in the next man up at that position.

 

[FLAlionfan]

I'll give you an A for effort, though I remain unconvinced. Even though he gained some weight, Palmer's performance in the spring game indicated severe deficits in his skills. I realize the depth will help, so there's that.
I just think we need some major new blood on that line in order to be hopeful. Aside from Reihmer, are there any other new faces that may be surprise major contributors THIS season?

Then Jump! Because it appears that nothing will satisfy your wish for things to go bad!

 

[Elwood Blues]

I don't follow this as closely as many, but I have a recollection that the line got much better when Dieffenbach came back from injury. Losing him and Smith, by far the two best OL players, causes me to be on the pessimistic side of the street at this point.

 

[BBrown]

I don't follow this as closely as many, but I have a recollection that the line got much better when Dieffenbach came back from injury. Losing him and Smith, by far the two best OL players, causes me to be on the pessimistic side of the street at this point.

Miles only was able to play about the first 1/4 of the Bowl game that was it.
Smith was probably only healthy for the bowl game (if even then) but gutted it out the entire season.
The loss of Smith will be felt, no doubt about it but I think we will be better at every other position on the line.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

To be honest, I'm not sure how anyone doesn't expect at least some improvement. Last year PSU had 4 green starters. This year there is 1. Last year was a new system and that isn't the case this year. While I don't expect total dominance, common sense says the'll be better if healthy.

 

[BlueBand]

To be honest, I'm not sure how anyone doesn't expect at least some improvement. Last year PSU had 4 green starters. This year there is 1. Last year was a new system and that isn't the case this year. While I don't expect total dominance, common sense says the'll be better if healthy.

LOL I don't think anyone is saying they won't be better, but that they were so bad, being better merely means they suck less, to be blunt.

 

[BBrown]

LOL I don't think anyone is saying they won't be better, but that they were so bad, being better merely means they suck less, to be blunt.

I think there might be a few around saying they won't be any better or at least very, very skeptical. But more important to your last point just being "marginally" better could be the difference of 2 wins. (MD and Illinois) So really "sucking less" with all thats gone on the last 4 years is not a bad thing.