The evolution of David Taylor

[Psalm 1 guy]

Watching David's transition from 74 kg to 86 kg over the last several years has been quite the sight. David has mentioned that when he first went up to 86 kg he could barely wrestle in practice without getting winded. It has been a slower process than I am sure he would have liked, but he has become a machine at 86 kg. He is now a full-sized 86 kg with a pace and endurance that are unmatched in the world. Seeing him gas Yazdani twice was amazing given Yazdani's legendary pace. I have never seen David's technique and finishes as clean as they are now. David has come back from the long rehab from knee surgery looking better than ever, both mentally and physically.

In David's match against Myles Martin David took six shots . . . and converted all six shots for a score (5 take downs and 1 push out). 100% shot success rate is an amazing feat at that level, especially against someone as talented as Martin, who is ranked #8 in the world (yes, I know, rankings . . . ). I am looking forward to several more years of watching David compete, and I really hope he competes through 2024.

 

[nerfstate]

Watching David's transition from 74 kg to 86 kg over the last several years has been quite the sight. David has mentioned that when he first went up to 86 kg he could barely wrestle in practice without getting winded. It has been a slower process than I am sure he would have liked, but he has become a machine at 86 kg. He is now a full-sized 86 kg with a pace and endurance that are unmatched in the world. Seeing him gas Yazdani twice was amazing given Yazdani's legendary pace. I have never seen David's technique and finishes as clean as they are now. David has come back from the long rehab from knee surgery looking better than ever, both mentally and physically.

In David's match against Myles Martin David took six shots . . . and converted all six shots for a score (5 take downs and 1 push out). 100% shot success rate is an amazing feat at that level, especially against someone as talented as Martin, who is ranked #8 in the world (yes, I know, rankings . . . ). I am looking forward to several more years of watching David compete, and I really hope he competes through 2024.

The 1 step out should have been a TD too. I do NOT, get how Myles was ranked #8 though. How many senior matches has he even had?

 

[PSU_Pride_93]

The 1 step out should have been a TD too. I do NOT, get how Myles was ranked #8 though. How many senior matches has he even had?

Nerf, i agree with you there. I understand senior level rankings are different (ie i think Downey is 3rd in the world at 86) but what has Myles done. Not shooting him down because he has a great college resume but i just feel like i haven’t heard much of him on the us senior level

 

[royboy]

Talk about David Taylor's evolution -- he wrestled at 112# as a high school junior.

 

[El-Jefe]

The 1 step out should have been a TD too. I do NOT, get how Myles was ranked #8 though. How many senior matches has he even had?

Nerf, i agree with you there. I understand senior level rankings are different (ie i think Downey is 3rd in the world at 86) but what has Myles done. Not shooting him down because he has a great college resume but i just feel like i haven’t heard much of him on the us senior level

This Jan 2020 tournament might be a factor in Martin's ranking:
https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2020/January/18/Mack-Martin-win-Henri-Deglane-golds

Martin, a Senior Nationals runner-up and a 2016 NCAA champion for Ohio State, also had four wins on the way to gold. Martin stopped 2018 Mediterranean Games silver medalist Akhmed Aibuev of France, 10-6 in the finals.

 

[Sportfan2017]

Watching David's transition from 74 kg to 86 kg over the last several years has been quite the sight. David has mentioned that when he first went up to 86 kg he could barely wrestle in practice without getting winded. It has been a slower process than I am sure he would have liked, but he has become a machine at 86 kg. He is now a full-sized 86 kg with a pace and endurance that are unmatched in the world. Seeing him gas Yazdani twice was amazing given Yazdani's legendary pace. I have never seen David's technique and finishes as clean as they are now. David has come back from the long rehab from knee surgery looking better than ever, both mentally and physically.

In David's match against Myles Martin David took six shots . . . and converted all six shots for a score (5 take downs and 1 push out). 100% shot success rate is an amazing feat at that level, especially against someone as talented as Martin, who is ranked #8 in the world (yes, I know, rankings . . . ). I am looking forward to several more years of watching David compete, and I really hope he competes through 2024.

David looked amazing. That said.......Myles at 200 lbs looked a bit large around the middle and I have no doubt that he was feeling a lot of what David felt when he first moved up to 189 lbs. I think we need to slide Myles a bit of slack on this one.

 

[Thenightking]

With the short notice Myles looked fat, slow and out of shape. Was glad to see David wrestle and look good, but wasn't much of a test ,Myles not 8th in the world.

 

[royboy]

David looked amazing. That said.......Myles at 200 lbs looked a bit large around the middle and I have no doubt that he was feeling a lot of what David felt when he first moved up to 189 lbs. I think we need to slide Myles a bit of slack on this one.

Hmmm....is there a really good young wrestler around 200# who might have given DT a better test?

Bo who?

 

[NoVa Lion]

With the short notice Myles looked fat, slow and out of shape. Was glad to see David wrestle and look good, but wasn't much of a test ,Myles not 8th in the world.

Yeah, I don't know where Flo got that from. Maybe #8 in the US, but I could not find those rankings. The latest World rankings don't have him in the top 20. See link.

https://unitedworldwrestling.org/

 

[NoVa Lion]

Hmmm....is there a really good young wrestler around 200# who might have given DT a better test?

Bo who?

LOL, I would have loved to see that. Not sure why it didn't happen.

 

[BTAvenger]

The thing about DT that I guess most couldn’t see as he evolved and grew internationally was his upside. He was such an incredibly accomplished wrestler coming out of college that you couldn’t predict how much more he would improve. Most guys obviously improve as they get older and train specifically for freestyle but DT has jumped levels that most couldn’t foresee. For comparison look at Dake. Clearly he is one of the best in the world but his improvement over the past few years pales in comparison to DTs. To me a lot of it comes down to “man strength”. Dake had more of it at an earlier age. DT simply took a lot longer to reach it. But now that he has it has catapulted him into the top of the sport.

 

[El-Jefe]

Yeah, I don't know where Flo got that from. Maybe #8 in the US, but I could not find those rankings. The latest World rankings don't have him in the top 20. See link.

https://unitedworldwrestling.org/

Agreed on that Martin's ranking was likely either #8 in the US, or something behind a Flo paywall.

That said, I'd be cautious about UWW rankings. UWW lists "points" behind each name, which makes me wonder how those points are accumulated -- I'd suspect placement at some sanctioned events, but that's not clear (nor is which events count vs. don't count).

Also of note in the UWW rankings: Dake is ranked at both 74 and 79 kg. Jason Nolf is ranked #12 at 79 kg. Isaiah Martinez is not ranked at either weight. Etc.

 

[CurtisLoew40]

LOL, I would have loved to see that. Not sure why it didn't happen.

It'll never happen which is extremely disappointing.

 

[crablegs1]

Yeah, I don't know where Flo got that from. Maybe #8 in the US, but I could not find those rankings. The latest World rankings don't have him in the top 20. See link.

https://unitedworldwrestling.org/

Those are seeding points based on performance at a certain number of events. They are not “rankings”. Hence why Chamizo is above both Sidakov and Burroughs.

The rankings are on Flo’s site, and I agree they are very inflated based mostly off of a win over Dieringer.

 

[tikk10]

That said, I'd be cautious about UWW rankings. UWW lists "points" behind each name, which makes me wonder how those points are accumulated -- I'd suspect placement at some sanctioned events, but that's not clear (nor is which events count vs. don't count).

That's all UWW "rankings" are--placement points accumulated at sanctioned events, and it's those points, er "rankings," and that's how seeds are determined. Many people pointed out at the time this was instituted how it made no sense to continue calling them "rankings" given how the whole process had been reduced to a mathematical formula.

Many people also pointed out how this system was likely to produce some weird results, given injuries and wrestlers switching weight classes (you can't carry your points across classes). Consequently, DT is presently unranked at 86kg, while Myles Amine (4th), Ringer (6th), and PD3 (7th), are ranked. Last year's points are meaningless to this year's points/rankings.

There's a strict formula [PDF here, though keep in mind that that's the 2019 series--changes to the events for 2020 are here] but it varies based on how many people show up for an event, meaning that winning a weight class with a bracket of, say, 40 garners more points than winning a bracket of 15.

Only Flo appears to have Myles Martin ranked at all, and that appears to be based on a few notable wins earlier in the year--over Alex Dieringer at US Senior Nationals, and over 2019 World Bronze Stefan Reichmuth (SUI) at the Henri Deglane. Neither event was part of the "rankings series" so that's why Martin isn't on any UWW lists.

Flo's rankings (by Jon Kozak) are indeed better than UWW's rankings, if only because Flo's are at least "rankings" in the way people think of them. Seth Petarra, who follows int'l wrestling as closely as anyone (and worked for Flo for maybe ten minutes), also does UWW rankings and didn't rank Martin in April (see here for his rankings).

 

[District four]

The thing about DT that I guess most couldn’t see as he evolved and grew internationally was his upside. He was such an incredibly accomplished wrestler coming out of college that you couldn’t predict how much more he would improve. Most guys obviously improve as they get older and train specifically for freestyle but DT has jumped levels that most couldn’t foresee. For comparison look at Dake. Clearly he is one of the best in the world but his improvement over the past few years pales in comparison to DTs. To me a lot of it comes down to “man strength”. Dake had more of it at an earlier age. DT simply took a lot longer to reach it. But now that he has it has catapulted him into the top of the sport.

i see him along the same lines as Cael he just gets better and perfects what he is already doing he is driven thats for sure so glad to have been able to watch him over the years and he is a great representative for PSU

 

[RoarLions1]

That's all UWW "rankings" are--placement points accumulated at sanctioned events, and it's those points, er "rankings," and that's how seeds are determined. Many people pointed out at the time this was instituted how it made no sense to continue calling them "rankings" given how the whole process had been reduced to a mathematical formula.

Many people also pointed out how this system was likely to produce some weird results, given injuries and wrestlers switching weight classes (you can't carry your points across classes). Consequently, DT is presently unranked at 86kg, while Myles Amine (4th), Ringer (6th), and PD3 (7th), are ranked. Last year's points are meaningless to this year's points/rankings.

There's a strict formula [PDF here, though keep in mind that that's the 2019 series--changes to the events for 2020 are here] but it varies based on how many people show up for an event, meaning that winning a weight class with a bracket of, say, 40 garners more points than winning a bracket of 15.

Only Flo appears to have Myles Martin ranked at all, and that appears to be based on a few notable wins earlier in the year--over Alex Dieringer at US Senior Nationals, and over 2019 World Bronze Stefan Reichmuth (SUI) at the Henri Deglane. Neither event was part of the "rankings series" so that's why Martin isn't on any UWW lists.

Flo's rankings (by Jon Kozak) are indeed better than UWW's rankings, if only because Flo's are at least "rankings" in the way people think of them. Seth Petarra, who follows int'l wrestling as closely as anyone (and worked for Flo for maybe ten minutes), also does UWW rankings and didn't rank Martin in April (see here for his rankings).

To add to tikk's comments...

The first event of each wrestling year, regarding UWW's ranking points, is the World Championship. There has only been the World Championship and a Ranking Series Event in Italy in January, 2020 (Matteo Pellicone), that have points allocated for them (for THIS wrestling year), to my understanding. That's really limited data, yielding the strange results.

I like the "theory" behind the system. If y'all remember, random seeding at tournaments, including World Championships and the Olympics, wasn't fair, so something had to be done. This is the something.

 

[El-Jefe]

 

[nerfstate]

View embedded media

Must be a pretty good feeling to know that if you can create a scramble situation, you're going to get points out of it against 99.999% of the field.

 

[tikk10]

To add to tikk's comments...

The first event of each wrestling year, regarding UWW's ranking points, is the World Championship. There has only been the World Championship and a Ranking Series Event in Italy in January, 2020 (Matteo Pellicone), that have points allocated for them (for THIS wrestling year), to my understanding. That's really limited data, yielding the strange results.

I like the "theory" behind the system. If y'all remember, random seeding at tournaments, including World Championships and the Olympics, wasn't fair, so something had to be done. This is the something.

Yeah, in theory it's a far better system than random seeding, and if every decent wrestler attended every event we'd get a pretty good set of rankings (and seeds). But it was never going to be the case that all decent wrestlers would attend every qualifying event. Consequently, right now, with Yazdani is "ranked" first and DT unranked, they could easily meet in the first round, which is unfair to the wrestler who played the game and racked up the points. For some weight classes, depending on event attendance by top wrestlers, it will consistently produce better results than random seeding, though, so yeah, it's probably still better than random.

Another thing it does that renders it a better system than random seeding is that it removes at least one cloud of corruption. I don't know whether random seeding was always up on the up and up (perhaps it was), but I know enough other instances of corruption in the sport that eliminating even the hypothetical possibility of gaming one aspect is a big positive.

 

[PSU James]

If Flo just did Flo pay per view events of Penn State wrestling live practices ....they would be cleaning up! $$$$$$

 

[Scryed]

I personally don't put much stock into what I saw in the Martin match. It was a dominant win, but was the showing really that impressive? No set up takedowns are fun to see work, but against Martin who had minimal time to prepare for this and is clearly not #8 in the world (probably elevated here due to his surprise win over dieringer) I'm really not seeing any real progression. Doesn't mean DT hasn't improved in his time in recovery, but I wouldn't get too excited based on what happened this weekend. He is still very likely the 5th best guy on the US world team at present.

 

[Dogwelder]

... DT ... is still very likely the 5th best guy on the US world team at present.

You forgot to use the “I’m on drugs” font.

 

[Scryed]

You forgot to use the “I’m on drugs” font.

Tell me how he is better than any of Burroughs, dake or cox? His record against these three is collectively what, 1-16? All three have more world medals and titles than Taylor. Snyder is a 3x champ with a win over sadulaev. Also ahead of taylor imo. I am open to hearing arguments, though..

 

[Dogwelder]

Tell me how he is better than any of Burroughs, dake or cox? His record against these three is collectively what, 1-16? All three have more world medals and titles than Taylor. Snyder is a 3x champ with a win over sadulaev. Also ahead of taylor imo. I am open to hearing arguments, though..

Taylor’s better, you know. He’s a good wrestler, He’s a wrestling guy ... He’s just, you know. He’s just better, it’s… good, the way he wrestles the match and everything ... Just… you know, how he wrestles the match. What?

 

[Brian LB-U]

For those of you who follow freestyle more closely than me, where would Taylor, Dake and Cox stack up in the World P4P rankings?

 

[bowandarrow]

David is 41 - 0 since losing to Cox at 2017 World Team Trials. (1 World Gold)

Cox is 35 - 5 since beating DT at 2017 World Team Trials. (20-0 in last 20) (2 Golds, 1 Bronze at Worlds)

Dake is 35 - 1 since losing to Jordan at 2017 World Team Trials. (2 World Gold)

Burroughs is 22 - 3 since beating Dake at 2017 World Team Trials. (1 Gold, 2 Bronze at Worlds -- both loses to Sidakov who won Gold each time)

Snyder is 57 - 5 since 2017 World Team Trials. (1 Gold, 1 Silver, 1 Bronze at Worlds)

 

[matter7172]

And don't forget UWW wrestler of the year in 2018 in there for DT.

 

[bowandarrow]

For those of you who follow freestyle more closely than me, where would Taylor, Dake and Cox stack up in the World P4P rankings?

All top 10 or close to it. I don't know the little guys as well and I'm certainly going to be biased. But Taylor is the clear #1 at his weight. Dake & Cox are top 4 at worst (and an argument for #2) at Olympic weights, and would be number 1 at their World Weights.

Sadulaev (Russia) is the clear #1 P4P. Everything after that is muddy.

 

[dunkej01]

I personally don't put much stock into what I saw in the Martin match. It was a dominant win, but was the showing really that impressive? No set up takedowns are fun to see work, but against Martin who had minimal time to prepare for this and is clearly not #8 in the world (probably elevated here due to his surprise win over dieringer) I'm really not seeing any real progression. Doesn't mean DT hasn't improved in his time in recovery, but I wouldn't get too excited based on what happened this weekend. He is still very likely the 5th best guy on the US world team at present.

Haters gonna hate, hate, hate.

 

[El-Jefe]

If the 2018 UWW Wrestler of the Year is only the 5th best guy on Team USA ... this seems like not such a bad thing.

 

[Scryed]

If the 2018 UWW Wrestler of the Year is only the 5th best guy on Team USA ... this seems like not such a bad thing.

Agree with this take 1000%

 

[Brian LB-U]

All top 10 or close to it. I don't know the little guys as well and I'm certainly going to be biased. But Taylor is the clear #1 at his weight. Dake & Cox are top 4 at worst (and an argument for #2) at Olympic weights, and would be number 1 at their World Weights.

Sadulaev (Russia) is the clear #1 P4P. Everything after that is muddy.

Thanks. I spent time over the weekend watching Cox and Dake matches on the UWW YouTube site and both of them appear to be head and shoulders above their competition. Impressive! I look forward to seeing how Cox stacks up at 97KG. He’s a brick wall at 92.

 

[WPB_lion]

Tell me how he is better than any of Burroughs, dake or cox? His record against these three is collectively what, 1-16? All three have more world medals and titles than Taylor. Snyder is a 3x champ with a win over sadulaev. Also ahead of taylor imo. I am open to hearing arguments, though..

Your arguments rely too much on the past and past accomplishments. If you are talking about their "all time" accomplishments, I think you may be right. However, I do not believe you are correct if you are talking about where they are right now. Time is not standing still for these guys. IMO, DT has gotten a lot better since he suffered the loses you reference.

Burroughs is an all time great who is past his prime. He is still obviously a world class wrestler who can beat anyone at any given time but he is not at the level he once was. DT has gotten better since he lost to Burroughs and Burroughs is approaching the end of his career. I believe DT is now better P4P than Burroughs. I also think Dake is going to beat Burroughs.

I believe Dake and DT are on the same level right now. Both are in the prime of their careers. Both are good shots at winning gold.

I think Cox is arguably better than DT P4P at when he is wrestling 92. I do not think he is going to be better P4P at 97. I may be wrong but we simply do not know how he will perform at 97.

Snyder has also not been wrestling as well as DT in recent years. I think DT is better than Snyder P4P right now. DT hasn't lost in a long time. In addition to losing to Sadulaev, Snyder has also lost to Sharifov (an Olympic Bronze medalist). While Snyder's all time accomplishments are better than Taylor's, I do not know that it is right to say he is better than Taylor right now.

IMO, Dake and Taylor are currently the best P4P wrestlers in USA followed by Cox and Snyder followed by Borroughs.

 

[82bordeaux]

Snyder has also not been wrestling as well as DT in recent years. I think DT is better than Snyder P4P right now. DT hasn't lost in a long time. In addition to losing to Sadulaev, Snyder has also lost to Sharifov (an Olympic Bronze medalist). While Snyder's all time accomplishments are better than Taylor's, I do not know that it is right to say he is better than Taylor right now.

He also was dominated by Mohammadian. He didn't look anywhere near top 5 there.

 

[Scryed]

Your arguments rely too much on the past and past accomplishments. If you are talking about their "all time" accomplishments, I think you may be right. However, I do not believe you are correct if you are talking about where they are right now. Time is not standing still for these guys. IMO, DT has gotten a lot better since he suffered the loses you reference.

Burroughs is an all time great who is past his prime. He is still obviously a world class wrestler who can beat anyone at any given time but he is not at the level he once was. DT has gotten better since he lost to Burroughs and Burroughs is approaching the end of his career. I believe DT is now better P4P than Burroughs. I also think Dake is going to beat Burroughs.

I believe Dake and DT are on the same level right now. Both are in the prime of their careers. Both are good shots at winning gold.

I think Cox is arguably better than DT P4P at when he is wrestling 92. I do not think he is going to be better P4P at 97. I may be wrong but we simply do not know how he will perform at 97.

Snyder has also not been wrestling as well as DT in recent years. I think DT is better than Snyder P4P right now. DT hasn't lost in a long time. In addition to losing to Sadulaev, Snyder has also lost to Sharifov (an Olympic Bronze medalist). While Snyder's all time accomplishments are better than Taylor's, I do not know that it is right to say he is better than Taylor right now.

IMO, Dake and Taylor are currently the best P4P wrestlers in USA followed by Cox and Snyder followed by Borroughs.

Taylor has wrestled one match in a little over a year. These comments about others not wrestling as well as him recently are just fabricated. Let's not pretend Taylor walked through the world championships, he had several close matches he has no guarantee of winning in a rematch. Cox and dake are going unscored on around that same time.. and at no point will I ever accept that taylor is "now at dake's level". That comment has been made for years and dake has kept thumping him. When you are 0 and x against someone you don't magically get to their level after coming off a year long hiatus and dominating a relatively green myles martin on a week and a half notice. I am a big taylor fan, but way too many psu fans make him out to be a legend that he isn't (yet)

 

[CurtisLoew40]

Tell me how he is better than any of Burroughs, dake or cox? His record against these three is collectively what, 1-16? All three have more world medals and titles than Taylor. Snyder is a 3x champ with a win over sadulaev. Also ahead of taylor imo. I am open to hearing arguments, though..

I think he's currently the best wrestler out of the 5 you listed. Pretty good argument to be made for Cox and Dake currently. No ones saying he's had a better career.

I agree an ass whooping of Martin didn't show much of anything with Martin on short notice. Almost exactly like Burroughs destroying askren didn't tell ya anything about Burroughs.

 

[nerfstate]

Taylor has wrestled one match in a little over a year. These comments about others not wrestling as well as him recently are just fabricated. Let's not pretend Taylor walked through the world championships, he had several close matches he has no guarantee of winning in a rematch. Cox and dake are going unscored on around that same time.. and at no point will I ever accept that taylor is "now at dake's level". That comment has been made for years and dake has kept thumping him. When you are 0 and x against someone you don't magically get to their level after coming off a year long hiatus and dominating a relatively green myles martin on a week and a half notice. I am a big taylor fan, but way too many psu fans make him out to be a legend that he isn't (yet)

He is a legend. You can't change that. He set the tone for the dynasty he helped usher in. He's the prototype. Would he beat Dake or Cox now? I dunno. I'd like to watch. DT actually holds an edge over Cox in lifetime vs. scoring 15-12, btw. Not saying DT is better (I wouldn't predict a win if they were to meet at 92, that's for sure). All of 'em are great, and I'm happy we have them on team USA. But DT is a legend. No other wrestler has broken Yazdani, and DT has done it twice. He's one of the very best wrestlers in the world. P4P debates are fun, but hardly what determines who is or isn't a legend. Just ask any kid who has grown up since DT and J'den graduated who is his/her favorite wrestler.

Oh--and DT won Pan Ams in March, so he's had more than 1 match in the last year.

 

[82bordeaux]

He is a legend. You can't change that. He set the tone for the dynasty he helped usher in. He's the prototype. Would he beat Dake or Cox now? I dunno. I'd like to watch. DT actually holds an edge over Cox in lifetime vs. scoring 15-12, btw. Not saying DT is better (I wouldn't predict a win if they were to meet at 92, that's for sure). All of 'em are great, and I'm happy we have them on team USA. But DT is a legend. No other wrestler has broken Yazdani, and DT has done it twice. He's one of the very best wrestlers in the world. P4P debates are fun, but hardly what determines who is or isn't a legend. Just ask any kid who has grown up since DT and J'den graduated who is his/her favorite wrestler.

Oh--and DT won Pan Ams in March, so he's had more than 1 match in the last year.

Cox is on top of his game and on top of the world right now at 92. I don't know if he out wrestled DT 2017. He definitely out sweated DT in 2017. I still think that after any break in the action both wrestlers should be toweled off. Maybe the purists will disagree.

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

Bader interviewed Taylor on Flo yesterday. Unfortunately, it is behind the paywall but is listed here: https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6761785-bader-show-david-taylor-and-kyle-dake

Very interesting interview from my perspective. David goes into some detail on his past struggles at 74 kg., his hard weight cut and how it affected his wrestling performance, his struggles to find enjoyment in his wrestling during that period and how he was just not ready physically or mentally to truly challenge wrestlers such as Burroughs and Dake. He mentions how he wrestled tentatively against Dake and Burroughs and how he didn't really believe he was at their level at that point in time. He also mentions, and it was something I felt I had seen in him also, that he was tentative (my word) when he wrestled Burroughs and Dake and that much of that was he knew he did not have the physical strength to muscle through positions unlike Burroughs and Dake (especially in combination with his hard weight cut to make 74 kg ). He knew he had the technique, but it was not until he went up to 86 kg and slowly acclimated to that weight (David has now been at 86 kg for four years) that his strength caught up to his technique.

David mentions that his physical development had lagged behind many wrestlers his age and it took a lot longer for him to mature physically. He said it was not until the World Cup in 2017 that it started to all come together. Prior to the World Cup he said he had finally made the mental adjustment to no longer be apprehensive against the top tier guys and just let it fly, no matter what the outcome might be.

I love the access Flo has given us to these athletes, and especially how the wrestlers make adjustments, especially mentally, as their careers progress. David, especially, seems to be quite transparent about some of the struggles he had, especially mentally, when he transitioned to his international freestyle career. I know I am forgetting quite a bit from the interview, but if you can get access to it, it is well worth a listen.

To all of my fellow posters, thank you all for everything you bring to this Board. It has been one of the few high points in my life the last few tumultuous months in this country. One last thought, and please forgive me in advance if it is too preachy, but I would encourage all of us, especially during these tough times, to go out of our way to show grace and patience to any of our fellow posters who sometimes cause grief on this Board (you know who you are ). I am currently on vacation in Oregon and am headed to Crater Lake tomorrow, then off to the Redwoods and later a ride on the "Skunk Train" out of Fort Bragg, which I would highly recommend. Gaylon