that would be a lot of digging. I was in the stands and saw the kids line up. Sure Strittmatter has it on their website somewhere
The Legacy of Spencer Lee
- Thread starter NittanyLion84
- Start date
I felt no resentment towards Spencer. While I understood his decision, I did question it. I thought then, and still do, he would have been better served going to Penn State.
It was easy for me to generally root against him, but that is because he is a Hawk. Not because he is PA kid not wrestling for PSU.
It was easy for me to generally root against him, but that is because he is a Hawk. Not because he is PA kid not wrestling for PSU.
The whining about him being booed played into it too. Cause opposing teams don’t get booed when they compete at Iowa. Iowa fans are so much better than that.
And they would never dare stoop to making fun of injured athletes
And I think it’s a strong bet M2 is not arranging annual bus trips to Carver
I said it before to 1986 here that their fans coronation of him as some demi God everyone should coronate grew tiresome on many, not just PSU fans. It wasn't just PSU fans who enjoyed a good upset of him. But we've had numerous Spencer threads on here and I'm guessing this won't be the last. Maybe it's just because we have a big and active board. All in all, he was 1-4 in team titles against us and didn't win #4. We could just leave it at that and call it a day.
Marsteller is not really apples to apples. He decommitted because of some troubles he had (and most understood that) and he never was a better option than who we had at his weight (Cenzo) let alone the best at NCAAs for basically 99% of his career.
Cenzo was 1 year after Marsteller, and was at 149 for his shirt year. PSU did not have a championship level 165 option at the time. There was ample opportunity to resent Marsteller if so inclined.
The level of ego involved vis-à-vis the treatment of Lord Spencer was really off the charts. Like he’s just so far above the earthly plane - way more than other amazing athletes that have competed in State College over the years - that no dissension (in the form of booing, etc) should be tolerated. I mean, get over it
There's definitely some overgeneralization going on here. As a diehard PSU fan and Pennsylvania native, I can't relate to your post and suspect there are a lot of posters here who feel the same.
I don't harbor any resentment toward Spencer Lee. Never have. I also have never rooted for him to fail. It's fun watching elite, dominant wrestlers like Spencer who almost always makes his opponents look like they are on the JV team.
But Cinderella stories in sports are also fun and I'm totally down for a big upset (as long as it's not against one of our guys). I would've been ecstatic to see Vespa stick Spencer in the dual. But that has nothing to do with wanting to see Spencer fail and everything to do with wanting to see "my guy" slay a giant against all odds.
I think a lot of the “hate” around here came from things like…
1. Strittmatter taking kids at Young Guns on bus trips that just happened to stop at Carver.
2. Spencer’s dad just randomly getting a job down the street in Iowa.
3. Open talk about his dad’s 3 inch binder of how mean everybody (they really meant PSU and Ohio ST) is to Iowa in recruiting.
All of that was before Spencer even stepped on the mat at Iowa. I think virtually every fan from every team respected Spencer’s wrestling and wanted to see continued freestyle success for team USA. It was the continued excuse making and overhyping of every little thing he did that got old for fans that weren’t diehard Hawkeyes.
1. Strittmatter taking kids at Young Guns on bus trips that just happened to stop at Carver.
2. Spencer’s dad just randomly getting a job down the street in Iowa.
3. Open talk about his dad’s 3 inch binder of how mean everybody (they really meant PSU and Ohio ST) is to Iowa in recruiting.
All of that was before Spencer even stepped on the mat at Iowa. I think virtually every fan from every team respected Spencer’s wrestling and wanted to see continued freestyle success for team USA. It was the continued excuse making and overhyping of every little thing he did that got old for fans that weren’t diehard Hawkeyes.
Didnt root for spencer always remember his attitude at Hershey after his first title. Then he went to Iowa, my first impression was he wasnt going to PSU anyhow, wasnt gonna be THE top dog there. Then at Iowa he got his and his parents wish, they set him on the highest pedestal and crowned him the goat without the accolades to back it up. Now they belittle some of the past great iowa champs to go along with it lol.
I dont know whats weirder, Carters picture on a Spencer Lee thread or them listing him as a 3x AA.Penn State three-time All-American Carter Starocci (photo courtesy of Sam Janicki; SJanickiPhoto.com)
WRONG! I’ll take that bet. DT will want his guys to watch the PSU Lions give the Hawks a good ass whipping in their own house. 😈
Some of the great NCAA wrestlers from the past 10 years alone in no particular order:
Spencer Lee; 98-6; .942; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x AA; 1-1-1-6
Ed Ruth; 136-3; .978; 3x NCAA Champ; 3-1-1-1
David Taylor; 134-3; .978; 2x NCAA Champ; 4x Finalist
Logan Steiber; 119-3; .975; 4x NCAA Champ
J’Den Cox: 133-5; .964; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x AA; 1-5-1-1
Alex Dierenger; 133-4; .971; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x AA; 3-1-1-1
Isaiah Martinez; 116-3; .975; 2x NCAA Champ; 4x Finalist
Gabe Dean; 153-7, .956; 2x NCAA Champ; 3-1-1-2
Kyle Snyder; 75-5; .938; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x Finalist
Zain Retherford; 126-3; .977; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x AA; 5-1-1-1
Yianni Diakomihalis; 115-2; .983 4x NCAA Champ
Jason Nolf; 117-3; .975; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x Finalist
Bo Nickal; 120-3; .976; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x Finalist
Mark Hall; 116-6; .951; 1x Champ; 3x Finalist; 1-2-2-Covid
Zahid Valencia; 121-3; .976; 2x NCAA Champ; 3-1-1-DQ
Aaron Brooks; 67-3; .957; 3x NCAA Champ; 1-1-1-TBD
Carter Starocci; 61-2; .968; 3x NCAA Champ; 1-1-1-TBD
Vincenzo Joseph; 89-9; .908; 2x NCAA Champ; 3x Finalist; 1-1-2-Covid
Spencer Lee; 98-6; .942; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x AA; 1-1-1-6
Ed Ruth; 136-3; .978; 3x NCAA Champ; 3-1-1-1
David Taylor; 134-3; .978; 2x NCAA Champ; 4x Finalist
Logan Steiber; 119-3; .975; 4x NCAA Champ
J’Den Cox: 133-5; .964; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x AA; 1-5-1-1
Alex Dierenger; 133-4; .971; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x AA; 3-1-1-1
Isaiah Martinez; 116-3; .975; 2x NCAA Champ; 4x Finalist
Gabe Dean; 153-7, .956; 2x NCAA Champ; 3-1-1-2
Kyle Snyder; 75-5; .938; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x Finalist
Zain Retherford; 126-3; .977; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x AA; 5-1-1-1
Yianni Diakomihalis; 115-2; .983 4x NCAA Champ
Jason Nolf; 117-3; .975; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x Finalist
Bo Nickal; 120-3; .976; 3x NCAA Champ; 4x Finalist
Mark Hall; 116-6; .951; 1x Champ; 3x Finalist; 1-2-2-Covid
Zahid Valencia; 121-3; .976; 2x NCAA Champ; 3-1-1-DQ
Aaron Brooks; 67-3; .957; 3x NCAA Champ; 1-1-1-TBD
Carter Starocci; 61-2; .968; 3x NCAA Champ; 1-1-1-TBD
Vincenzo Joseph; 89-9; .908; 2x NCAA Champ; 3x Finalist; 1-1-2-Covid
I actually keep thinking of The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest. I was going to make a Spencer Lee parody this weekend but lost steam.
Ha ha ha! You should definitely do it. Maybe one of our friends who visit the Hawk forum frequently will post a link.
PS - Bob Dylan is an icon’s icon! He’s a real living legend.
Spencer probably gets out of the bottom third. Definitely not out of the bottom half.
I just can't help from wondering how Spencers career might have gone in the blue and white.
His mom would still have her glasses....
Putting aside this is of course my homer view, we have far more than a trend and contrast between the two programs to defend a view that Spencer's full potential was not realized at Iowa.
Cael's program would have developed a broader level of skill, addressed his weaknesses, and most definitely provided better conditioning for a stronger 3rd period gas tank.
I am quite confident he redshirts that first year. I am also confident assuming he has the same injuries, that he is provided the opportunity for a full year+ off to properly rehabilitate. That same caution with injury rehab may have cost us Suriano. Cael isn't rushing anyone back onto the mat after a significant injury. The team simply wouldn't have needed him the way Iowa had to win championships. Like it or not Spencer came back too soon, for reasons that would not have existed at PSU.
Starting his career a year later, with Cael honed tool chest results in a different competitor. Maybe just maybe he would have had a shot to go undefeated, his case to win 4 is much stronger, his destiny fulfilled.
I thought it at the time he committed, and I think it now, that going to Iowa was not the best decision for his career and initially would end with unintended consequences. Just ask Kemerer, Marinelli, Warner, ADS, Woods and others who I definitely see winning national championships in Cael's program.
Granted an unfair conclusion, but IMO nonetheless real in my own mind. I suspect a lasting memory of the vision of him embracing his parents in the stands after winning his 4th a la Cenzo, as opposed to a forever unfortunate meme.
Too bad Spencer didn't choose the NLWC to give him the best shot at his future with Freestyle. Some never learn, pride has consequences.
In the end, I hope he heals properly and comes back to win a good medal in 2028, following Gilman's gold in 2024.
I went through Sanderson's record and saw just 46 of his wins were decisions or major decisions. If I counted correctly he had 113 tech falls and pins. How the hell do you attempt to call anyone else the GOAT if you're aware of those details?
800 × 500
How can you be quite confident that Lee would've redshirted at Penn State his freshman year?
Did Suriano redshirt? No.
Did Penn State have an opening at 125 the year after Suriano left? Yes.
How close was the team race in 2018? Damn close.
Anyone else's redshirt burnt in 17/18 because it helped the team? Yes.
Your assumption that Lee would've redshirted is not logically based.
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Doesn't get out of bottom at all if he had chosen his 3rd finalist, Ohio State.
Cael has publicly stated many times that he prefers a redshirt. Granted he gives a lot of weight to what the kids want to do, and I suspect Spencer would lean strongly in the direction of wanting to go.
That qualifier aside, the biggest difference between Iowa and PSU is we simply didn't need his points and for Iowa he represented their #1.
Much like the thought of Suriano being outlandishly but correctly labeled the 6th best wrestler on a very young team the year before, Spencer would have been on a team that included previous champs Zain, Nolf, Cenzo and Bo. PSU was the pre-season favorite. Sitting Spencer would have been by far the better team strategy, not to mention better fit his development aside. At least with Suriano we were less sure of what were had team wide during his first year, Flo had us ranked either 5th or 7th to start that year. A big difference. Nonetheless, even if we assume Spencer was a go at PSU year 1, I remain 100% confident he would have developed differently at PSU than Iowa, in a far superior way as supported by the past decade of demonstrated excellence.
Iowa has a legacy during that same period of hammer wrestlers remaining one dimensional, and either plateauing or even degrading over their careers in Iowa City, with PSU routinely delivering the exact opposite. Like clockwork the skills and results of a long list of PSU hammers get better each year.
If Iowa doesn't get Spencer I don't think they recruit the same team that resulted in a championship not to mention the loss of Spencer's points alone cost them the title. PSU would have been much stronger (hard to believe), and even foes like Ohio St. fall away. Spencer at PSU changes the whole half decade to even greater PSU 'total' dominance.
Likewise I seriously doubt Cael rushes him back after double knee reconstruction, especially when his points aren't needed.
What Spencer did get at Iowa was the brightest possible spotlight, and elevation to near deity as the face of that program. In the end, I think this was part in parcel to poor decisions, rushing him back, and in the end none of it worked out so well for him.
