The top 12 schools in wins all-time, how often should they make the playoffs in a 10-year period?

[saturdaysarebetter2]

The top 12 schools in wins all-time, how often should they make the playoffs in a 10-year period? Wha's an acceptable/expected number of those schools? 10 out of 10? 9 out of 10? 8 out of 10? Etc.

Those schools are:
Michigan
Alabama
Ohio State
Texas
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Penn State
Nebraska
Georgia
Tennessee
USC
LSU

 

[voltz99]

The top 12 schools in wins all-time, how often should they make the playoffs in a 10-year period? Wha's an acceptable/expected number of those schools? 10 out of 10? 9 out of 10? 8 out of 10? Etc.

Those schools are:
Michigan
Alabama
Ohio State
Texas
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Penn State
Nebraska
Georgia
Tennessee
USC
LSU

How many national championships should joe have won? Pennsylvania was also top three in talent back then.

 

[NedFromYork]

For a 12 team playoff? For Penn State and in that range, I would say 2 out of 3 to 3 out of 4 years.

 

[bcspsu]

The top 12 schools in wins all-time, how often should they make the playoffs in a 10-year period? Wha's an acceptable/expected number of those schools? 10 out of 10? 9 out of 10? 8 out of 10? Etc.

Those schools are:
Michigan
Alabama
Ohio State
Texas
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Penn State
Nebraska
Georgia
Tennessee
USC
LSU

Depending on how OU does in the SEC, PSU has a decent chance to surpass them in the next five years. PSU also isn't that far behind ND. However, with ND playing a de facto ACC schedule and almost never losing those games, it will be hard to pass them.

If PSU had not deemphasized football in the 1930s, it probably would be in the top 5, but 7th still is pretty good.

 

[LandoComando]

7 or 8 is the expectation
Nebraska is lower
Georgia Bama and Ohio State are probably 10/10 as the expectation

 

[saturdaysarebetter2]

How many national championships should joe have won? Pennsylvania was also top three in talent back then.

So now that Pennsylvania isn't in the top three in talent does that give Franklin a huge pass on not winning national championships? By your logic, it does, does it not?

Joe wasn't win at all cost and didn't have a bag man like the SEC did but Joe built teams on four-year cycles with a team of game-tested seniors that challenged for national titles. Today, no such thing exists due to turning pro early.

Joe was cheated out of at least two more national titles, particularly in '69 and '94, and given Joe time to prepare for an opponent, Penn State's chances in a playoff system would have been in Penn State's favor.

How many NCAA titles would Joe Paterno have won if he had the college football playoff?

Is it easier or harder for a head coach to win a national championship in college football now than it was years ago? College football analyst Kirk Herbstreit stated he believe it was easier today …

johnbaranowski.wordpress.com

 

[LandoComando]

How many national championships should joe have won? Pennsylvania was also top three in talent back then.

More than he did
Like Franklin should have made the playoff by now

 

[Jerry]

How many national championships should joe have won? Pennsylvania was also top three in talent back then.

Joe won two and had two unbeaten teams ('69, '94) that were unquestionably good enough to win a national championship but were denied the chance to play for one.

The unbeaten '68 and '73 teams weren't too shabby either though their national championship cases were probably a little weaker than the first two I mentioned.

In the 1960's and most of the 70's, teams like USC, Alabama, Ohio State, Notre Dame and Texas were, if unbeaten, almost automatically zoomed into national championship contention.

Penn State didn't get the same respect until the late 1970's and, even after getting it, still managed to once (1994) end up on the outside looking in.

 

[lazydave841]

Imagine the titles Florida State could have if the 4 team playoff or even 12 existed from '89 to '02.

How many years did they get picked over in the poll era because they lost to Miami or Florida?

 

[saturdaysarebetter2]

Imagine the titles Florida State could have if the 4 team playoff or even 12 existed from '89 to '02.

How many years did they get picked over in the poll era because they lost to Miami or Florida?

Good question.

How many NCAA titles would Bobby Bowden have won if he had the college football playoff?

Is it easier or harder for a head coach to win a national championship in college football now than it was years ago? College football analyst Kirk Herbstreit stated he believe it was easier today …

johnbaranowski.wordpress.com

 

[voltz99]

7 or 8 is the expectation
Nebraska is lower
Georgia Bama and Ohio State are probably 10/10 as the expectation

Not realistic. Joe probably would not even make 7 out of 8 in his prime and that was when Pennsylvania was top three in talent.

 

[voltz99]

So now that Pennsylvania isn't in the top three in talent does that give Franklin a huge pass on not winning national championships? By your logic, it does, does it not?

Joe wasn't win at all cost and didn't have a bag man like the SEC did but Joe built teams on four-year cycles with a team of game-tested seniors that challenged for national titles. Today, no such thing exists due to turning pro early.

Joe was cheated out of at least two more national titles, particularly in '69 and '94, and given Joe time to prepare for an opponent, Penn State's chances in a playoff system would have been in Penn State's favor.

How many NCAA titles would Joe Paterno have won if he had the college football playoff?

Is it easier or harder for a head coach to win a national championship in college football now than it was years ago? College football analyst Kirk Herbstreit stated he believe it was easier today …

johnbaranowski.wordpress.com

When the state goes from top 3 in talent to top 20 do you expect the same results? Joe probably would not even match Joe's stats today.

PS. Do you expect future coaches to match the winningest coach of all time?

 

[LandoComando]

Not realistic. Joe probably would not even make 7 out of 8 in his prime and that was when Pennsylvania was top three in talent.

It's 100% realistic and Joe's number would have been higher as the realistic expectation during the 70s and 80s

 

[LandoComando]

When the state goes from top 3 in talent to top 20 do you expect the same results? Joe probably would not even match Joe's stats today.

PS. Do you expect future coaches to match the winningest coach of all time?

Recruiting isn't regional now
The talent in PA is meaningless. See Oregon

 

[saturdaysarebetter2]

When the state goes from top 3 in talent to top 20 do you expect the same results? Joe probably would not even match Joe's stats today.

PS. Do you expect future coaches to match the winningest coach of all time?

So you're saying that Franklin shouldn't be held to JoePa's standards? If so, I agree. Hear that Franklin naysayers?

 

[LionFan87b]

I don't see how all time wins should have any bearing on this. Too much of that is based on ancient history. For example, Nebraska is in that top 12 list, but when was the last time they were consistently good?

 

[voltz99]

Recruiting isn't regional now
The talent in PA is meaningless. See Oregon

False.

Oregon is a weak example. Oregon would love for their state to produce more talent but it does not. Oregon does the next best thing and recruits their NEIGHBORING state. California is a neighborhing state and MOST of Oregon's team is from California. The state where Oregon signed the most players was California the last 10 years+ recruiting classes. That is REGIONAL. You also ignored Phil Knight's money. PSU does not have a Phil Knight and still has a smaller budget than the handful of teams ahead of us. PSU's recruiting budget is 1/3rd of Georgia. Maybe you should match Phil Knight's contributions. That is not franklins job. That is your job.

It also is not a coincidence that texas, Georgia, Alabama and Ohio all produce more talent than PSU. States with more in state have a big advantage. Do you think PSU has the same chances with a kid from texas as UTexas?

Recruiting will always start at home. Schools dont have a time machine. There are only 24 hours in a day for every team. It is easier to recruit at home than to travel across country.

 

[voltz99]

It's 100% realistic and Joe's number would have been higher as the realistic expectation during the 70s and 80s

Joes numbers would have been less and WERE less from 95-2011.

You are guessing when you can use ACTUAL results.

 

[Obliviax]

i sent a text to Jerry Sandusky asking him. I'll let you know when he replies.

 

[lazydave841]

I don't see how all time wins should have any bearing on this. Too much of that is based on ancient history. For example, Nebraska is in that top 12 list, but when was the last time they were consistently good?

2001?

Whatever year they lost in the title game to Miami.

I don't think they've won 10 games since then. Do not believe they won a conference title either. They've won 7 games or less half that years since then, but I'm just spitballin' a # off my head without looking it up.

 

[LandoComando]

False.

Oregon is a weak example. Oregon would love for their state to produce more talent but it does not. Oregon does the next best thing and recruits their NEIGHBORING state. California is a neighborhing state and MOST of Oregon's team is from California. The state where Oregon signed the most players was California the last 10 years+ recruiting classes. That is REGIONAL. You also ignored Phil Knight's money. PSU does not have a Phil Knight and still has a smaller budget than the handful of teams ahead of us. PSU's recruiting budget is 1/3rd of Georgia. Maybe you should match Phil Knight's contributions. That is not franklins job. That is your job.

It also is not a coincidence that texas, Georgia, Alabama and Ohio all produce more talent than PSU. States with more in state have a big advantage. Do you think PSU has the same chances with a kid from texas as UTexas?

Recruiting will always start at home. Schools dont have a time machine. There are only 24 hours in a day for every team. It is easier to recruit at home than to travel across country.

Look at the top 10, top 50, top 250
It's not regional

 

[LandoComando]

Joes numbers would have been less and WERE less from 95-2011.

You are guessing when you can use ACTUAL results.

Joe's "expectation" would have been higher in the 70s and 80s
He should have been forced out after 99 or 01 at the latest because we wasn't good enough

 

[crm114psu]

Joe won two and had two unbeaten teams ('69, '94) that were unquestionably good enough to win a national championship but were denied the chance to play for one.

They were not denied in 69, the decision was made to opt for a different bowl. They DECLINED the chance to play Texas. PSU opted to play Missouri in the Orange instead. Bad decision.

 

[saturdaysarebetter2]

I don't see how all time wins should have any bearing on this. Too much of that is based on ancient history. For example, Nebraska is in that top 12 list, but when was the last time they were consistently good?

Blue Blood status more likely and thus, higher expections from past success.

 

[saturdaysarebetter2]

They were not denied in 69, the decision was made to opt for a different bowl. They DECLINED the chance to play Texas. PSU opted to play Missouri in the Orange instead. Bad decision.

If you don't know the entire reasoning behind that decision that needed made before the regular season was completed, research it.

 

[crm114psu]

If you don't know the entire reasoning behind that decision that needed made before the regular season was completed, research it.

That changes nothing, what I stated were the facts:

1) Opportunity was there
2) Decision was made to DECLINE
3) Was the wrong decision

You can flop around with this excuse or that but it does not alter the facts, PSU was not denied, it was the wrong decision.

 

[LandoComando]

If you don't know the entire reasoning behind that decision that needed made before the regular season was completed, research it.

We had the opportunity though which is a valid point

 

[lazydave841]

Looking back 1969

Lions make the wrong choice, attend Orange and finish 2nd again(Editor's note: This article is the final article in a six-part series focusing on Penn State's 1969 Penn State football

www.psucollegian.com

The glory of picking your bowl destination weeks before the season ends.

 

[psulongago]

So now that Pennsylvania isn't in the top three in talent does that give Franklin a huge pass on not winning national championships? By your logic, it does, does it not?

Joe wasn't win at all cost and didn't have a bag man like the SEC did but Joe built teams on four-year cycles with a team of game-tested seniors that challenged for national titles. Today, no such thing exists due to turning pro early.

Joe was cheated out of at least two more national titles, particularly in '69 and '94, and given Joe time to prepare for an opponent, Penn State's chances in a playoff system would have been in Penn State's favor.

How many NCAA titles would Joe Paterno have won if he had the college football playoff?

Is it easier or harder for a head coach to win a national championship in college football now than it was years ago? College football analyst Kirk Herbstreit stated he believe it was easier today …

johnbaranowski.wordpress.com

Who was the first guy left early for the Pro's, thought it was an LB/DE who got drafted by the Redskins, thought name may have been Larry ???. Recall reports were, Joe was furious he left.

 

[LionFan87b]

Blue Blood status more likely and thus, higher expections from past success.

Perhaps fan expectations, yes. But realistically, it doesn't hold water, especially with NIL.

 

[LandoComando]

Perhaps fan expectations, yes. But realistically, it doesn't hold water, especially with NIL.

Oh it means even more with NIL
Blue Bloods should be able to dominate NIL--and if they can't they need to figure it out with a new AD and HC

 

[Jerry]

They were not denied in 69, the decision was made to opt for a different bowl. They DECLINED the chance to play Texas. PSU opted to play Missouri in the Orange instead. Bad decision.

It ended up being a bad decision but at the time they made it -- in those days the call on bowl pairings had to come in mid-November rather than at the end of the regular season -- it seemed reasonable and justified. Therefore, they were denied by circumstances and plain old bad luck.

No doubt in my mind that if Joe and his team had a crystal ball in mid-November and knew how things were going to break...that Ohio State would shockingly lose and that Texas would be playing in the Cotton Bowl for the national championship...they would have opted to play the Longhorns.

I also think they would have beaten Texas. My recollection is that the coach of the Missouri Big-8 champion that they ended up defeating in the Orange Bowl and holding to the grand total of 3 points, Dan Devine, said Penn State's D was one of the best he'd ever seen in college football. In my opinion, it was good enough to beat the Longhorns that year if given the chance.

 

[crm114psu]

I also think they would have beaten Texas. ....... In my opinion, it was good enough to beat the Longhorns that year if given the chance.

They were "given the chance" and refused. Nothing denied them other than themselves. Any speculation on the outcome are purely opinion.

 

[Jerry]

They were "given the chance" and refused. Nothing denied them other than themselves. Any speculation on the outcome are purely opinion.

Well you chopped the part of my post explaining why they "refused."

Obviously, speculation on what the outcome would have been falls into the realm of opinion. You have yours. I have mine.

But there's no debate about how the choice of bowls worked in those days.

You had to decide by mid-November...before the season was over.

The fact is that Penn State did not "duck" Texas nor did Penn State "refuse" a known match-up with the Longhorns for a national championship.

Rather, Penn State navigated the issues as they existed in that day...and made a bowl decision based on them. Turned out to be the wrong call.

 

[LandoComando]

Well you chopped the part of my post explaining why they "refused."

Obviously, speculation on what the outcome would have been falls into the realm of opinion. You have yours. I have mine.

But there's no debate about how the choice of bowls worked in those days.

You had to decide by mid-November...before the season was over.

The fact is that Penn State did not "duck" Texas nor did Penn State "refuse" a known match-up with the Longhorns for a national championship.

Rather, Penn State navigated the issues as they existed in that day...and made a bowl decision based on them. Turned out to be the wrong call.

And isn't Penn State responsible for making the wrong call? I'm confused as to who you're trying to blame here

 

[GSPMax]

And isn't Penn State responsible for making the wrong call? I'm confused as to who you're trying to blame here

Blame?
Are you aware of social conditions in Texas at the time?
When the team made their decision there were a few unknowns since the season was not over.
The team made their decision based on what they thought was best for the team.
Since there was no playoff, could/should have been a split championship.

 

[LandoComando]

Blame?
Are you aware of social conditions in Texas at the time?
When the team made their decision there were a few unknowns since the season was not over.
The team made their decision based on what they thought was best for the team.
Since there was no playoff, could/should have been a split championship.

When voters are deciding there never is a "should". Could? Yes but that doesn't alter the wrong decision was made.

Truthfully this discussion illustrates how happy we should be that we now have a 12 team playoff and that will only continue to grow.

 

[Jerry]

And isn't Penn State responsible for making the wrong call? I'm confused as to who you're trying to blame here

Yes, in the same way that you're "responsible" for going on a picnic outing after the meteorologists had called for sunny weather but it rained anyway.

Dummy, you should have known it would rain. Lando would have!

Good grief.

 

[GSPMax]

When voters are deciding there never is a "should". Could? Yes but that doesn't alter the wrong decision was made.

Could? Split championships have occured 11 times. Should have been 12.

 

[LandoComando]

Yes, in the same way that you're "responsible" for going on a picnic outing after the meteorologists had called for sunny weather but it rained anyway.

Dummy, you should have known it would rain. Lando would have!

Good grief.

Yes, you made the choice--every decision is your fault when it's wrong. It's called accountability.