The upcoming roster and depth chart
- Thread starter BrockBronson
- Start date
Probably so but it sounds like he could make 157 no problem now so he would definitely have to gain some good weight
Please do not tell me we're shortening "Messenbrink" to "Messe" or "Messi".
This is my guess
125 Howard
133 Nagao
141 Bartlett
149 Van Ness
157 Haines
165 Starocci
174 Facundo
184. Truax
197 Brooks
285 Kerk
RS: Mesenbrink
125 Howard
133 Nagao
141 Bartlett
149 Van Ness
157 Haines
165 Starocci
174 Facundo
184. Truax
197 Brooks
285 Kerk
RS: Mesenbrink
How can you not admire Carter's drive for a lifelong dream of the Olympics, but let's get real, he ain't sucking down to 74 and beating Nolf and/or Dake. His speed explosion and power will be gone. Yeah, I know what he has done in the past. Just ask DT.
I am totally on board for your scenario above as Carter's way to spread the pain and body adjustment, but I would rather not see him lose at NCAAs at 165 either. If he is that serious about it, just take the Oly and work hard for the whole season on the descent.
I would rather Carter to stay where he is, forgo this Oly cycle and enjoy watching both he and Brooks become our first 4xers. In 2-4 years most of the national team will turn over and he and Aaron should be the two of the big dogs.
125 Howard
133 Nagao
141 Bartlett
149 Van Ness
157 Haines
165 Mesenbrink (he just went 74 as and looks as big as Levi to me)
174 Starroci (Facundo shirts and gains weight for 174 next year)
184. Truax
197 Brooks
285 Kerk
Now tee up the predictabke comments that we should leave it up to him to decide. No kidding.
Not a Rangers fan at all, but what a stud Mess was. A true captain in every sense of the word - feel the same way about Stevie Ybut how about
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Close. Mesenbrink will have the redshirt lifted as did Mark Hall and Levi Haines.
How about Carter get a head start on making his 2024 Olympic weight by going 165 this year in college instead of taking an Olympic redshirt and then Facundo goes at 174?
Messenbrink a title contender right out of the gate. and can't see him taking his Olympic RS..kid wants to get on the mat..already sat last year..
Here's how I see it..IF CARTER comes back at 174..
157-Haines/Messenbrink 165 Haines/Messenbrink 174 Star (Facundo Olympic shirt)
If Carter comes back at 165
157 Messenbrink 165 Star 174 Facundo (Haines redshirt)
If Carter doesn't come back..
157 Haines/Messenbrink 165 Haines/Messenbrink 174 Facundo (Star Olympic shirt)
Here's how I see it..IF CARTER comes back at 174..
157-Haines/Messenbrink 165 Haines/Messenbrink 174 Star (Facundo Olympic shirt)
If Carter comes back at 165
157 Messenbrink 165 Star 174 Facundo (Haines redshirt)
If Carter doesn't come back..
157 Haines/Messenbrink 165 Haines/Messenbrink 174 Facundo (Star Olympic shirt)
I have a suspicion that one of these guys will RELUCTANTLY man 157, both are BIG 157’s if not 165’s already.
157 is best weight to win a natty though..extra inspiration! O'Toole would be a tough ask for either of them.
Considering both were at 165 last year, I don’t see either coming back down to 157.
Whatever it is there is going to be a lot of fun watching this kid destroy people. He's a beast what a get on our part. I can't imagine how much better these kids will get wrestling each other in the room in between getting schooled by nolf and zain
Placing aside the all the permutations of the 157-174 roster situation next year. There is one very interesting question worthy of it's own debate. Who will go 157, and why?
The eye test, rumors and recent competition seems to indicate neither Levi nor Mesenbrink are 'optimal' 157s. We have heard even from Cael Levi is not long for 157, and Mitchel just won gold at 74 (163.4 lbs). It doesn't sound like Levi wants another year at 157.
What we don't know is their walking around weight, maybe Mitch did not have a cut for 74 and if so 157 would be relatively easy, but if he is walking around up at 170+ his prospective cut may be the same or worse than Levi's. Askren doesn't say much other than he can go 157, 165, or redshirt and will be content. Excellent.
Is it me or do the two of them look like brothers? It's crazy, similar builds, similar height, similar hair, and similar 'hammerness'. The question of which one goes 157 is an not a slam dunk by any means.
As much as I am drinking the coolaid re: Mesenbrink, including his results against Levi, I think with a year under his belt in this program, and the jumps in levels we saw nearly reach week last season, my money remains on Levi in a wrestleoff.
In short, of we totally ignore redshirt strategy playing a role, I am leaning Mesenbrink will be our 157 next year, but because of weight considerations not superiority.
As for redshirts and who will then go at 165 and 174.... my head hurts. Carter is the biggest and first domino to fall, all other logical reasoning doesn't mean much until he decides what he wants to do 165, 174 or shirt?
Re: benchmark's and the Irish invasion. Also worthy of consideration, O'Toole is a talent level well above O'Connor IMO. Whether it be Levi, Mitchell, Facundo, or a hollowed out Carter, none will be the favorite at 165.
If runner up is the likely best outcome, who would I 'sacrifice' (poor word choice) first? Facundo > Mesenbrink > Levi > Carter. I know Cael, nor any of the kids think that way though.
The eye test, rumors and recent competition seems to indicate neither Levi nor Mesenbrink are 'optimal' 157s. We have heard even from Cael Levi is not long for 157, and Mitchel just won gold at 74 (163.4 lbs). It doesn't sound like Levi wants another year at 157.
What we don't know is their walking around weight, maybe Mitch did not have a cut for 74 and if so 157 would be relatively easy, but if he is walking around up at 170+ his prospective cut may be the same or worse than Levi's. Askren doesn't say much other than he can go 157, 165, or redshirt and will be content. Excellent.
Is it me or do the two of them look like brothers? It's crazy, similar builds, similar height, similar hair, and similar 'hammerness'. The question of which one goes 157 is an not a slam dunk by any means.
As much as I am drinking the coolaid re: Mesenbrink, including his results against Levi, I think with a year under his belt in this program, and the jumps in levels we saw nearly reach week last season, my money remains on Levi in a wrestleoff.
In short, of we totally ignore redshirt strategy playing a role, I am leaning Mesenbrink will be our 157 next year, but because of weight considerations not superiority.
As for redshirts and who will then go at 165 and 174.... my head hurts. Carter is the biggest and first domino to fall, all other logical reasoning doesn't mean much until he decides what he wants to do 165, 174 or shirt?
Re: benchmark's and the Irish invasion. Also worthy of consideration, O'Toole is a talent level well above O'Connor IMO. Whether it be Levi, Mitchell, Facundo, or a hollowed out Carter, none will be the favorite at 165.
If runner up is the likely best outcome, who would I 'sacrifice' (poor word choice) first? Facundo > Mesenbrink > Levi > Carter. I know Cael, nor any of the kids think that way though.
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I would love to see C-Star take on Carr and KOT, but holding that weight for a whole season is probably too difficult to ask. He would be the only one who would not be a decided underdog coming in vs KOT.
What nobody is mentioning is nobody on the roster wants to meet Arnold at 174 in CHA.
Carter can challenge himself and prep for 74kg by weighing in at, say 169 if he wants.
Carter can challenge himself and prep for 74kg by weighing in at, say 169 if he wants.
Carr is not a decided underdog against KOT. He beat him 2 out of 3 times last year ( he lost the big one). David has been working harder than ever improving his finishes and his mat wrestling plus packing on more size as he was a smallish 165. Expect to see a stronger David Carr this year. Yes I have Cyclone blinders.
I have huge respect and admiration for Levi but I will stand firm in my belief that Mitchel Mesenbrink is a special point scorer along the lines of a Jason Nolf or David Taylor. Like or hate Ben Askren but he knows wrestling and believes Mitchel is as special as any young man he has ever worked with. I think he and Levi are the Taylor/Ruth or Zain/Nolf 1-2 punch that makes PSU untouchable for another recruiting cycle. All this praise heaped ain't nobody beating Carter at 165 if he goes that weight. Too strong and sound for KOT and too disciplined and strong for Carr.
Finally some sanity on the Carter at 165 idea.
Here's my best guess on the middleweights for this year and the following few years:
2023-24
141 Bartlett
149 Van Ness
157 Haines
165 Mesenbrink
174 Cstar
184 Truax
Redshirt: Kasak, Davis, Barr
Sits or Redshirts: Facundo
2024-25
141 Bartlett/Kasak (if Bartlett doesn't take extra year)
149 Van Ness
157 Haines
165 Mesenbrink
174 Facundo
184 Barr
Reshirts: Sealy, Ryder
2025-26
141 Kasak
149 Van Ness
157 Sealy
165 Mesenbrink
174 Facundo
184 Ryder
Redshirts: Haines, Perry
Sits: Barr
2026-27
141 Perry
149 Kasak
157 Sealy
165 Haines
174 Facundo
184 Ryder
Redshirts: Mesenbrink
Sits; Barr
2027-28
141 Perry
149 ?
157 Kasak
165 Sealy
174 Mesenbrink
184 Ryder
This leaves 197-285 for the Mirasola boys after Brooks and Kerk move on. The only stud who sits in this scenario is Barr - who I'd see competing with Facundo for 174 or Ryder for 184.
2023-24
141 Bartlett
149 Van Ness
157 Haines
165 Mesenbrink
174 Cstar
184 Truax
Redshirt: Kasak, Davis, Barr
Sits or Redshirts: Facundo
2024-25
141 Bartlett/Kasak (if Bartlett doesn't take extra year)
149 Van Ness
157 Haines
165 Mesenbrink
174 Facundo
184 Barr
Reshirts: Sealy, Ryder
2025-26
141 Kasak
149 Van Ness
157 Sealy
165 Mesenbrink
174 Facundo
184 Ryder
Redshirts: Haines, Perry
Sits: Barr
2026-27
141 Perry
149 Kasak
157 Sealy
165 Haines
174 Facundo
184 Ryder
Redshirts: Mesenbrink
Sits; Barr
2027-28
141 Perry
149 ?
157 Kasak
165 Sealy
174 Mesenbrink
184 Ryder
This leaves 197-285 for the Mirasola boys after Brooks and Kerk move on. The only stud who sits in this scenario is Barr - who I'd see competing with Facundo for 174 or Ryder for 184.
I meant the only one of the PSU guys. Yes, Carr is not a decided underdog to anyone at his weight.
I am always a contrarian. Ask DT about cutting weight and it's effects.
Carter has a cut today at 174 and probably has around 5% body fat, which some might argue is unhealthy. Now take 9 more pounds (of muscle) off of that. As much respect as a 3xer deserves, noone can predict the negative effects those lost 9 lbs will have on his strength, stamina, propensity for injury and so on ... We will not see the same wrestler at 165, sorry. Can he still beat Carr and Keegan? Granted, if anyone can, a sucked down Carter would be that guy. I don't see it, sorry.
That and unfortunately for CStar 74Kg = 162.8 lb's.
It really is a shame that the Olympics don't offer the full complement of freestyle weights. Boxing has the same issue. They have 13 weight classes that get compressed to 8 for the Olympics. Meanwhile the swimming programs have like 6 distances for freestyle. Is that necessary to have 50m, 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m and 1500m races?
No.
Michael Phelps was obviously a GOAT, but didn't he get 8 golds in 1 Olympics? That means too many events.
Meanwhile the entire men's freestyle wrestling universe has to scrap for 6 golds total. Sucks
Swimming does need all those events just like track needs all of short/long distances they have. Different athletes train for different events just like in wrestling young wrestlers train and battle in Freestyle, Folkstyle and Greco and then most tend to pick one and run with that.
Not sure how 8 events in 1 Olympics is too many, considering 3 were 4x4. Again I think people need to remember that wrestling is a dying sport, at one point Wrestling was on the docket to be removed completely from the Olympics. Is it fair that wrestling was slashed a # of weight classes? No. But be honest for a second, most of the board are huge wrestling fans but most of the world could care less. When it comes to the Olympics, people want to watch Swimming, Track, and Gymnastics.
Could USA Wrestling be more prevalent? Sure, I would assume if NBC picked it up as a way to stream as opposed to USA Wrestling behind Flo then sure, but until that day, we stay having 6 weight classes.
Ok, I'll compromise. Bring back 10 Oly weight classes and we will give up Greco as the compromise. That will likely result in more interest in the sport as well. Problem solved!
I jest. Nah not really. Like it or not Greco is full of kids that are not from the top talent pool in Folk or Free, and aside from the occasional throw here or there, it's boring even for many of us wrestling fans.
I jest. Nah not really. Like it or not Greco is full of kids that are not from the top talent pool in Folk or Free, and aside from the occasional throw here or there, it's boring even for many of us wrestling fans.
True for the US but not internationally. Greco is huge in Russia and Iran as well being bigger than freestyle in places like Germany, Sweden, and Finland. I could definitely do without it but Greco is popular outside the US
Put the X Games sports back where they belong. If I want to see tricks on skateboards I can go to the local dying strip mall and watch the HS dropouts perform there.
...and get off your lawn!
Swimming & Track certainly want all those events, but they don't 'need' them any more than wrestling needs to have all 10 weight classes represented.
Is the number of events for Swimming & Track at their World Championships, equal to the number of events at the Olys? I have no idea? Maybe they get trimmed down too [not by enough, if so].
But, the way it is currently, there's all these events for every type of specialization a track/swim athlete can train for. However, wrestling basically has ~40% of it's competitors being told by the IOC: "sorry, your body size is not a fit for our Olympics, you all will just have to sit out."
