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This article shows FSU had worst coaching in FBS

had the 4th ranked recruiting class that was coached into a garbage team as seniors.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...7474/college-football-results-recruiting-2018

That this coach survived is a major joke.
They were terrible this year but I don’t see FSU firing the coach after one year. Living down here in Florida many of my neighbors are big FSU fans and they all hated the hire from the beginning. It will be interesting to see how they do next year.
 
had the 4th ranked recruiting class that was coached into a garbage team as seniors.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...7474/college-football-results-recruiting-2018

That this coach survived is a major joke.

There is a reason Jimbo left. Sometimes you think you have talent and there is none. Look at the 2000 psu class.

Yes he got money etc but the primary reason is he knew his stock was going to drop quickly.

New coach has to get them out of this hole.

LdN
 
had the 4th ranked recruiting class that was coached into a garbage team as seniors.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...7474/college-football-results-recruiting-2018

That this coach survived is a major joke.

FSU is a crap show.
But I don't know if you can lay it all at the feet of Taggert, this is his first year. Some of their issues is on the former coach.
That being said I don't think Taggert is a very good coach. Another season at FSU should be a good indicator.
 
Additionally, it sort of shows that CJF didn't 'coach up' his recruits either. They sort of fell exactly where they were predicted vav recruiting rankings - FWIW.
 
Well......
In the two prior years (2016 and 2017) PSU’s composite S&P ranking was 4th in the nation (with lower recruit ratings)

So? What does it REALLY mean?


https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa2017

Basically the same thing I said? I dunno. 'Splain it to me....

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What it really means - in actuality - is that the entire OP’s premise was utter jibberish..... and there is no point in taking it any further than that.
But, I do expect you would - obviously :) - already know that, without my saying so.


(If the event that it is not, there is certainly no point in getting into a long explanation)

Hm. So, whatever correlations exist between recruiting class rankings and actual team performance is coincidence and/or not statistically relevant? Just checking. Rough day at Midnighter household - 2 and 4 year old are into everything....
 
Hm. So, whatever correlations exist between recruiting class rankings and actual team performance is coincidence and/or not statistically relevant? Just checking. Rough day at Midnighter household - 2 and 4 year old are into everything....
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No, there is a correlation, but how strong it is remains a question. The OP's conclusion is absurd. Taggart may be a bad coach, but the article doesn't prove it. Last season was his first at FSU. Much of the development of the current squad was done under the previous regime. How many of those from the four classes remain on the squad? I could go one, but no point in wasting the keystrokes.

The analysis in the article is insufficient to fire him. As with any other coach, FSU should expect to see considerable improvement next season and the following. If not, then they have a decision to make.
 
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No, there is a correlation, but how strong it is remains a question. The OP's conclusion is absurd. Taggart may be a bad coach, but the article doesn't prove it. Last season was his first at FSU. Much of the development of the current squad was done under the previous regime. How many of those from the four classes remain on the squad? I could go one, but no point in wasting the keystrokes.

The analysis in the article is insufficient to fire him. As with any other coach, FSU should expect to see considerable improvement next season and the following. If not, then they have a decision to make.

What about for CJF, who has been the HC at Penn State for the entire time in this scenario?
 
The results say - depending on how reliable you think “S&P” is vav measuring success.....
That the CJF staff has done a “Good to Excellent” job overall. Over the last several years.
Probably - based on those numbers - one could feel pretty safe that they have been consistently in the “Top20” in the country (but, again, that is all premised on S&P being a useful measure.... and the assumption that Recruiting + Coaching = Success)

Other than that - to put a “ranking” on it based on the things measured by S&P, or to pretend to be more precise - would be a Fool’s Errand.

Agreed - but a 'good to excellent job overall' wrt what exactly? I get this is a very limited exercise. But, it's premise is simple - how did teams do (finish in the polls), vav their recruiting rankings, over a four year period? One one hand, you could say CJF took PSU's 12th overall rated ranking and plopped them exactly where they should have been (assuming recruiting ranking is an indicator of on field success). On the other, you could say he basically did nothing to make them no better or worse than what they were ranked. Worth noting Saban did basically the same thing, noting he recruited at a much higher level.
 
What about for CJF, who has been the HC at Penn State for the entire time in this scenario?
I think it’s instructive that, in what has pretty much been universally dubbed a “down year,” Penn State’s on field results were pretty much in line with its recruiting results. I think a lot of fans got a little spoiled by the massive overachievements in 2016 and 2017, but I’ll take performing as expected if that’s what a down year entails going forward, especially as the relative floor raises with better recruiting.
 
They were terrible this year but I don’t see FSU firing the coach after one year. Living down here in Florida many of my neighbors are big FSU fans and they all hated the hire from the beginning. It will be interesting to see how they do next year.

He was hired because he did some good things at USF and was expected to recruit well.
But his coaching last year, especially offensively, was terrible. I think the defense just
kind of gave up as the season progressed. I think next year is his last.
 
I don’t know how else to explain it that wouldn’t involve a level of “quanting” that no one on the board would be anywhere near interested enough to actually read - let alone work through.

Let’s just say that the original premise would say that if Bama is #1 in both Recruiting and Results , the conclusion would be that their Coaching was “average”.
In fact, if their recruiting was “average” they would have had a hard time finishing in the top 10 for results - - - let alone #1,


Several teams with lesser recruiting would have had far better than average Coaching and would have jumped them in Success.


As to PSU?
If one gives any merit to the premise that R + C = Success? Then PSU’s Coaching was far above average (I think my earlier post said “comfortably assumed to be Top20-Ish..... and that is what one would conclude)
Does one call that GOOD? GREAT? EXCELLENT? Whatever one wants to tag it if they are among the top 20 out of 130..... I don’t know what term one wants to use.

Doesn’t this assume recruiting is the more important component? And coaching is secondary? It’s not entirely impossible that recruiting rankings are more important than coaching and thus, average coaching at Bama would still yield unmatched on field results.

Can you explain how PSU’s cosching is ‘far above average’ if they end up nearly exactly aligned with how they’ve recruited? Same with Bama. Neither team has a coaching change to explain a massive difference in on field performance. FSU appears to be an outlier.

Or don’t answer - I’m fine either way.
 
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Last time..... but I don’t think I can do you any good unless you take the time to work it out on your own.

The fault lies with a basic - and utterly incorrect - premise that if you perform at a level equal to your recruiting rankings that means that your coaching was “average”.

It doesn’t.
But I imagine that most of the folks who read the OP will plant that incorrect premise in their brains.

Unless and until you can get that incorrect premise out of your head (which, from what I’ve seen in various venues, is a VERY difficult thing for most folks to do) you will never be able to grasp what IS correct.
The incorrect premise will always roadblock that process - until you blow it up.

If you really do want to “get it” the best thing you could do - I think - is go back to the 12th post in this thread and read it, carefully and critically, until you are sure you have digested it completely.
That might remove the roadblock.


I think that is - truly - as much help as I can be.



I’ll check out of this thread - because I know there will be a whole lot of stoopid posted by some folks from here on out (and, as some would attest, I have little patience for that when I see it :) ) ..... but if you do have a specific question, post a seperate thread and I’ll respond if I can.

Ok - I wanted to see if you disagreed with the premise, or if you disagreed with the findings assuming the premise is correct. That helps. Will dig a bit and get back to you.
 
FWIW:

It’s not that I DISAGREE with the premise of:

“if you play to the level of your recruiting, it means your coaching was average”

It’s that it is quantifiably incorrect.
It’s not subjective..... not any more than 2+2 = 5 not being correct would be subjective.
It just is.

How so? Just saying it doesn't make it so. How do you quantify 'coaching'? It's easy to quantify recruiting rankings, poll numbers, etc. In your example, you listed Alabama as '11th' for 'coaching'. How did you get to that number? Additionally, what does it mean for a team like Washington State, who averaged 46 nationally in recruiting, but finished with a #10 final poll ranking and a #29 S&P ranking? FWIW, you can throw out S&P and just use 'recruiting ranking' vs. 'final poll ranking' - it's probably more accurate. Is Washington State's coaching better than Bama's? If I understand you, it's not, because since Bama was #1 in recruiting and #1 in S&P, that indicates a level of superior coaching, same with PSU despite being at #12 & #14 respectively, despite WSU finishing well above their recruiting ranking.

Further, deciding the importance of coaching vs. recruiting is significant - you arbitrarily assigned 50/50, but it's probably more like 70/30 (recruiting/coaching). But, you, nor anyone else, can quantify how good a coaching staff is - unless you base it on final poll numbers, and there you'll see the teams that recruit better, tend to finish better. As an example, Nick Saban, arguably the greatest college football coach in history, only managed 9 wins once while at Michigan State - and it was in his fifth and final year. Meanwhile, he hits double digit wins in his second year at Bama (after a recruiting class ranked #12 - the worst of his tenure) and hasn't had fewer than 10 wins since (and hasn't finished lower than fifth in the final recruiting rankings since then, to include seven straight #1 classes according to 247).
 
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I wouldn’t in my wildest dreams/nightmares try to “Quantify Coaching” (it was the OP premise, and the link there, that was trying to quantify coaching)..... nor how much success is determined by coaching, or recruiting or what else - - - it was the original premise which was based upon Success being derived only from Coaching and Recruiting... not me. In fact, I think that premise is ridiculous.

Those figures you reference were EXAMPLES to illustrate - to someone wanting to understand - the simple and non-subjective definitiveness of the OP premise being simply incorrect.
I don’t think I could have made that any more clear.
Use any numbers you want.

Post 12.

Or, just go with whatever you like :)
It certainly don’t matter.

Post 12 solves nothing until you can disprove the premise, which is pretty basic (as I understand it): If you are not finishing within +/- 10 in S&P, though I would probably use final poll ranking, (and 10 would be my own margin of success - could use 5, 3, 7, etc. so long as it wasn't above 10) of your average four year recruiting ranking, you are not doing a good job coaching. If you are better than that, it is *because* of your good coaching (see: Washington State). Certainly, the better you do, the less room for error you have. Bama, for example, has nowhere else to go but down despite all their success. Additionally, recruiting class rankings don't account for attrition, transfers, etc., but still - they're more or less pretty good indicators of success.

Of course success is more than *just* recruiting and coaching, but it's not much more than that. Unless you can find a team to win a NC who didn't have at least a top ten recruiting average over four years, I'm inclined to think there is enough of a relationship to make the premise worth looking at. But, I'm dumb, so there's that.
 
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Post 12 solves nothing until you can disprove the premise, which is pretty basic (as I understand it): If you are not finishing within +/- 10 in S&P, though I would probably use final poll ranking, (and 10 would be my own margin of success - could use 5, 3, 7, etc. so long as it wasn't above 10) of your average four year recruiting ranking, you are not doing a good job coaching. If you are better than that, it is *because* of your good coaching (see: Washington State). Certainly, the better you do, the less room for error you have. Bama, for example, has nowhere else to go but down despite all their success. Additionally, recruiting class rankings don't account for attrition, transfers, etc., but still - they're more or less pretty good indicators of success.

Of course success is more than *just* recruiting and coaching, but it's not much more than that. Unless you can find a team to win a NC who didn't have at least a top ten recruiting average over four years, I'm inclined to think there is enough of a relationship to make the premise worth looking at. But, I'm dumb, so there's that.
excellent LOL
 
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