This could kill football as we know it....(link)
- Thread starter Richard the LIONhearted
- Start date
They just found it in 4 soccer players in Europe as well and it's just the tip of the iceberg. It's not strictly a football thing and there are still a lot of scientific unknowns.
The article is hidden behind a paywall, but I heard about it. Are the NFL specimens discussed in relationship to those of the general populace?
FYI - Non-paywalled...
CTE found in nearly 90 percent of brains donated by football players
2:10 PM ET
ESPN.com news services
CHICAGO -- Research on 202 former football players found evidence of a brain disease linked to repeated head blows in nearly all of them, from athletes in the National Football League, college and even high school.
It's the largest update on chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, a debilitating brain disease that can cause a range of symptoms including memory loss.
The report doesn't confirm that the condition is common in all football players;
it reflects high occurrence in samples at a Boston brain bank that studies CTE. Many donors or their families contributed because of the players' repeated concussions and troubling symptoms before they died.
"There are many questions that remain unanswered," said lead author Dr. Ann McKee, a Boston University neuroscientist.
Among those questions: How common is this? How many years of football are too many? What is the genetic risk?
"Some players do not have evidence of this disease despite long playing years," McKee noted.
It's also uncertain if some players' lifestyle habits -- alcohol, drugs, steroids, diet -- might somehow contribute, McKee said.
Dr. Munro Cullum, a neuropsychologist at UT Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas,
emphasized that the report is
based on a selective sample of men
who were not necessarily representative of all football players.
He said problems other than CTE might explain some of their most common symptoms before death, such as depression, impulsivity and behavior changes. Cullum was not involved in the report.
McKee said research from the brain bank may lead to answers and an understanding of how to detect the disease in life, "while there's still a chance to do something about it." There's no known treatment.
The strongest scientific evidence says CTE can only be diagnosed by examining brains after death, although some researchers are experimenting with tests performed on the living. Many scientists believe repeated blows to the head increase risks for developing CTE, leading to progressive loss of normal brain matter and an abnormal buildup of a protein called tau. Combat veterans and athletes in rough contact sports like football and boxing are among those thought to be most at risk.
The new report was published Tuesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association.
CTE was diagnosed in 177 former players -- nearly 90 percent of brains studied. That includes 110 of 111 brains from former NFL players; 48 of 53 former college players; nine of 14 former semi-professional players; seven of eight former Canadian Football League players; and three of 14 former high school players. The disease was not found in brains from two younger players.
A panel of neuropathologists made the diagnosis by examining brain tissue, using recent criteria from the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, McKee said.
The NFL issued a statement saying these reports are important for advancing science related to head trauma and said the league "will continue to work with a wide range of experts to improve the health of current and former NFL athletes."
After years of denials, the NFL has acknowledged a link between head blows and brain disease and agreed in a $1 billion settlement to compensate former players who had accused the league of hiding the risks.
The journal update includes many previously reported cases, including former NFL players Bubba Smith, Ken Stabler, Dave Duerson and Ralph Wenzel.
New ones include retired tight end Frank Wainright, whose 10-year NFL career included stints with the Miami Dolphins, New Orleans Saints and Baltimore Ravens. Wainright died in April 2016 at age 48 from a heart attack triggered by bleeding in the brain, said his wife, Stacie. She said he had struggled almost eight years with frightening symptoms including confusion, memory loss and behavior changes.
Wainright played before the league adopted stricter safety rules and had many concussions, she said. He feared CTE and was adamant about donating his brain, she said.
"A lot of families are really tragically affected by it -- not even mentioning what these men are going through and they're really not sure what is happening to them. It's like a storm that you can't quite get out of," his wife said.
Frank Wycheck, another former NFL tight end, said he worries that concussions during his nine-year career -- the last seven with the Tennessee Titans -- have left him with CTE and he plans to donate his brain to research.
"Some people have heads made of concrete, and it doesn't really affect some of those guys," he said. "But CTE is real."
"I know I'm suffering through it, and it's been a struggle and I feel for all the guys out there that are going through this," said Wycheck, 45.
In the new report, McKee and colleagues found the most severe disease in former professional players; mild disease was found in all three former high school players diagnosed with the disease. Brain bank researchers previously reported that the earliest known evidence of CTE was found in a high school athlete who played football and other sports who died at age 18. He was not included in the current report.
The average age of death among all players studied was 66. There were 18 suicides among the 177 diagnosed.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...cent-brains-donated-deceased-football-players
2:10 PM ET
ESPN.com news services
CHICAGO -- Research on 202 former football players found evidence of a brain disease linked to repeated head blows in nearly all of them, from athletes in the National Football League, college and even high school.
It's the largest update on chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, a debilitating brain disease that can cause a range of symptoms including memory loss.
The report doesn't confirm that the condition is common in all football players;
it reflects high occurrence in samples at a Boston brain bank that studies CTE. Many donors or their families contributed because of the players' repeated concussions and troubling symptoms before they died.
"There are many questions that remain unanswered," said lead author Dr. Ann McKee, a Boston University neuroscientist.
Among those questions: How common is this? How many years of football are too many? What is the genetic risk?
"Some players do not have evidence of this disease despite long playing years," McKee noted.
It's also uncertain if some players' lifestyle habits -- alcohol, drugs, steroids, diet -- might somehow contribute, McKee said.
Dr. Munro Cullum, a neuropsychologist at UT Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas,
emphasized that the report is
based on a selective sample of men
who were not necessarily representative of all football players.
He said problems other than CTE might explain some of their most common symptoms before death, such as depression, impulsivity and behavior changes. Cullum was not involved in the report.
McKee said research from the brain bank may lead to answers and an understanding of how to detect the disease in life, "while there's still a chance to do something about it." There's no known treatment.
The strongest scientific evidence says CTE can only be diagnosed by examining brains after death, although some researchers are experimenting with tests performed on the living. Many scientists believe repeated blows to the head increase risks for developing CTE, leading to progressive loss of normal brain matter and an abnormal buildup of a protein called tau. Combat veterans and athletes in rough contact sports like football and boxing are among those thought to be most at risk.
The new report was published Tuesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association.
CTE was diagnosed in 177 former players -- nearly 90 percent of brains studied. That includes 110 of 111 brains from former NFL players; 48 of 53 former college players; nine of 14 former semi-professional players; seven of eight former Canadian Football League players; and three of 14 former high school players. The disease was not found in brains from two younger players.
A panel of neuropathologists made the diagnosis by examining brain tissue, using recent criteria from the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, McKee said.
The NFL issued a statement saying these reports are important for advancing science related to head trauma and said the league "will continue to work with a wide range of experts to improve the health of current and former NFL athletes."
After years of denials, the NFL has acknowledged a link between head blows and brain disease and agreed in a $1 billion settlement to compensate former players who had accused the league of hiding the risks.
The journal update includes many previously reported cases, including former NFL players Bubba Smith, Ken Stabler, Dave Duerson and Ralph Wenzel.
New ones include retired tight end Frank Wainright, whose 10-year NFL career included stints with the Miami Dolphins, New Orleans Saints and Baltimore Ravens. Wainright died in April 2016 at age 48 from a heart attack triggered by bleeding in the brain, said his wife, Stacie. She said he had struggled almost eight years with frightening symptoms including confusion, memory loss and behavior changes.
Wainright played before the league adopted stricter safety rules and had many concussions, she said. He feared CTE and was adamant about donating his brain, she said.
"A lot of families are really tragically affected by it -- not even mentioning what these men are going through and they're really not sure what is happening to them. It's like a storm that you can't quite get out of," his wife said.
Frank Wycheck, another former NFL tight end, said he worries that concussions during his nine-year career -- the last seven with the Tennessee Titans -- have left him with CTE and he plans to donate his brain to research.
"Some people have heads made of concrete, and it doesn't really affect some of those guys," he said. "But CTE is real."
"I know I'm suffering through it, and it's been a struggle and I feel for all the guys out there that are going through this," said Wycheck, 45.
In the new report, McKee and colleagues found the most severe disease in former professional players; mild disease was found in all three former high school players diagnosed with the disease. Brain bank researchers previously reported that the earliest known evidence of CTE was found in a high school athlete who played football and other sports who died at age 18. He was not included in the current report.
The average age of death among all players studied was 66. There were 18 suicides among the 177 diagnosed.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...cent-brains-donated-deceased-football-players
Football, as we know it, will soon change dramatically. There will be many fewer parents willing to allow their children to play this game. Within a generation, football will not be a sport that the middle or upper-middle class still allows their children to participate in.
Not to minimize what may be a very serious situation that requires sober review.
However, it appears the stats don't in anyway represent the average player. It appears this is a very narrow, "cherry picked" group, so to speak. Only those who had problems took the time and effort to donate their brains for examination. So it is not a representative sample of the millions who have played football.
Again, in no way minimizing any injury to any individual and not diminishing relevant studies that may help many individuals.
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There is SO MUCH money in discovering CTE. We're talking mucho bucks.
Until they do tests on brains of a full NFL population (not just those who donated their brains because they had problems) it is not very significant.
LdN
I can tell you, in my neighborhood I already see it. Young parents aren't letting their kids play football. My son is steadfast in that he will not allow his kids to play.
It's coming, folks. Unless somebody comes up with a helmet that works, the NFL will be some kind of MMA production.
It's coming, folks. Unless somebody comes up with a helmet that works, the NFL will be some kind of MMA production.
I agree with TJ and LdN.
Also, these are obviously former players from 20-30 years ago (I'm guessing) since they are deceased.
Tackling techniques and rules have greatly changed over the years since these players were on the fields.
Very little, by rule NONE, contact is permitted by the head.
Lead with the nose and hit with the shoulder.
That, and more of a rugby tackle have been stressed in the last 7-10 years.
OL
Also, these are obviously former players from 20-30 years ago (I'm guessing) since they are deceased.
Tackling techniques and rules have greatly changed over the years since these players were on the fields.
Very little, by rule NONE, contact is permitted by the head.
Lead with the nose and hit with the shoulder.
That, and more of a rugby tackle have been stressed in the last 7-10 years.
OL
I think you're right. There are so many more sports available to kids in the general public now...I have a friend who started a summer camp for mountain biking, and in only its 3rd year, they're getting close to having to turn kids away. Even local gyms are staring American Ninja Warrior training for kids. Point is, it's no longer just football, baseball, and hoops for kids...other sports are getting airtime, and kids are tuning in to watch and wanting to participate in them.
Here's a helmet that works -
Get rid of the hard helmet and the facemask, lose the road warriors shoulder gear they wear and you'd have a whole lot less kids leading with the head trying to make Sports Center top 10.
It would feel a little creepy to see a picture of my brain on the internet
Here's a helmet that works -
Get rid of the hard helmet and the facemask, lose the road warriors shoulder gear they wear and you'd have a whole lot less kids leading with the head trying to make Sports Center top 10.
Just get rid of the colored facemasks #neutralgreyalltheway
Disagree ,the players have gotten much larger,and the game is faster than 20-30 years ago causing bigger hits, and that is from HS to the NFL.
Ugh, I hate articles like this. CTE and its connection to football is a real and frightening thing, but studies based on self selection are silly and give fodder to deniers. If a self selecting study showed that 110 out of 111 football players who believed they have a cavity turned out to be right, does that prove anything about cavity prevalence in the NFL?
You might want to talk to someone familiar with the results and read the article. This survey includes recent young players as well. Those rules changes are meaningless. Watch a Cincinnati vs. Pittsburgh game and count all the helmet to helmet blasts.
You are full of hope, football is full of head to head collisions. Review the results for linemen in the study or QBs.
I agree, the helmet has become the weapon of choice. Take off the face mask and make it a soft helmet, lots of head hunters will learn quickly that it is their head that is getting hurt. Should start with something like this as mandatory in practice and see what happens.Here's a helmet that works -
Get rid of the hard helmet and the facemask, lose the road warriors shoulder gear they wear and you'd have a whole lot less kids leading with the head trying to make Sports Center top 10.
Remember hearing talk about padding on the outside of helmets, but not so much lately. Does anyone know what happened with that idea?
The study addresses your caveats: "But 110 positives remain significant scientific evidence of an N.F.L. player’s risk of developing C.T.E., which can be diagnosed only after death. About 1,300 former players have died since the B.U. group began examining brains. So even if every one of the other 1,200 players would have tested negative — which even the heartiest skeptics would agree could not possibly be the case — the minimum C.T.E. prevalence would be close to 9 percent, vastly higher than in the general population."
IMO there is a big misunderstanding about what is causing these brain injuries. No helmet or tackling technique is going to stop your brain from rattling around inside your skull while playing and practicing football. Collisions are inevitable in this game. All collisions result in the brain rattling around in the skull and stretching and contorting.
Lots of discussions automatically go to the big knock out shots and say they can be eliminated and then the problem is solved. That is far from the truth. Newer research is suggesting that the non concussive stretching and contorting of the brain on collisions my be the real culprit. I think that once the science catches up in the next 10 years this game is in real trouble.
This video explains the latest research very well.
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"Mr. Football" from my high school was a 23 year old imbecile in with a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds. Who allows you to stay in HS after you flunked 9th grade 3 times? He now drools on himself when he isn't filling his pants.
Who was responsible? His mom and dad that ran "Feather Haven" Pets, or the idiots running the school?
Who was responsible? His mom and dad that ran "Feather Haven" Pets, or the idiots running the school?
Agree and disagree.
Of course headers in soccer contribute as does snow skiing. But there are varying degrees and acceptable risks associated with any physical event. The issue is simply more acute in football and may not be in an acceptable risk area (and why participation is down).
But the point I really want to make is that the helmet may be causing as much or more harm than it is saving. Rugby players don't wear helmets and you don't see the head injuries, at least at this point. If you eliminated faces masks, players wouldn't lead with their heads or hit as hard. They simply wouldn't last very long.
Regardless, there must be a revolutionary change to head protection.
University of North Carolina is studying this issue. They have found that, of course, the big knockout hits cause brain injury, but that even routine plays, where linemen butt heads each and every snap, causes brain injury - it is an accretive problem.
The headline of the article is so misleading. The 111 brains studied were all from players showing symptoms and probably severe at that. A more honest stat would be what % of players eventually have symptoms. Even that wouldn't be a good yardstick as I've known many people who have had severe dementia in their old age who never played football. Also, there's a world of difference between playing high school and maybe, college to a guy who has done that and then added a lengthy NFL career.
A more informative statistic would be what % of former football players develop dementia and at what age compared to males in the general population. Of course, we won't see that headlined anywhere because it may not fit the narrative and create as much buzz.
That's the right question. How many instances of CTE are found in the general population? Need to know the answer to that in order to make a determination of the added risk of playing football vs wrestling or falling off a bike when you're 8 years old. Maybe all of us have some form of CTE from fighting with our brothers and getting beat about the head and shoulders. These studies on football players are important, but are only one side of the needed data.
Less full contact drills in practices would help.
5 year max career limit would help.
Limit maximum player weights to 250 pounds or less would help.
Good points.
However the sample size is really the much larger group that played, back in the day.
Let's say the playing era studied had a large proportion of individuals who developed diabetes and had already died pre-maturely, or died from other causes like accidents, cancer or heart disease. That is, if people from the sample group have already died, their brains are part of the representative sample and but are not available for review. That throws off the statistics.
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Another potentially very serious compounding issue may be that most of these people may have grown up in the era when the government forced potentially deadly and harmful low fat diet guidelines onto people.
Those diets are now being linked to most every major human disease pathway.
Activist political groups and the mainstream media forced fast food and food manufacturers to stop using healthy fats and instead switch to very harmful Trans Fats. Overloading bodies with harmful body part "building blocks" has consequences, when the tissues can't be properly and normally protected or repaired and/or they are "repaired" with harmful materials.
DHA is an Omega-3 oil component.
"DHA comprises 40% of the polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) in the brain."
"Fifty percent of the weight of a neuron's plasma membrane is composed of DHA."
So consider that many, if not most people in certain eras on low fat diets, may have been essentially starving their brains and nervous system from important nutrients needed to protect and repair tissues in daily life and needed for protection when tissues are under assault."Fifty percent of the weight of a neuron's plasma membrane is composed of DHA."
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So, while important research is ongoing, it is also important to look at a wider view. "Cherry-picked" samples and simple correlation may or may not indicate causation.
Or there may be co-factors which increased damage or decreased damage or largely eliminated the damage.
Damage may have been generated or made more pronounced, perhaps linked to government's anti-science dietary guidelines' reducing the body's natural abilities to resist or repair stressors that occurred.
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All that said, data is being collected, which is an important step in the Scientific Method. Hope their research continues.
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And if those linemen weren't wearing a dome of plastic around their head they'd be a whole heck of a lot more mindful of how they play. They'd feel less invincible, know their head is vulnerable and stop leading with their heads when blocking or trying to shoot the gap.
If you want to limit weight, go to single platoon football. Your linemen will be back to 230 lbs. in no time.
Well, I agree with TJ here, collect data, do the research. I suspect, however, that you simply cannot eliminate brain trauma from football.
Your right on the less contact in practice, maybe even eliminating almost all contact in practice. Could have practices akin to what John Gagliardi did at St Johns Minnesota, he only won over 400 games, not contact.
Could also be a move to those tackling dummy robots.
I bet eventually you see the elimination of tackle football prior to high school. JoePa was never a big fan of football before high school, said too many bad coaches in the young age groups. He also recommended kids play basketball and soccer to develop footwork.
That's not really the problem. The problem is when two 300+ pound lineman hit each other(even if no contact is made to either one of their heads) the impact of the hit makes the brain slide into the skull and cause a little bit of damage. Keep doing that over and over and over again long enough and you end up with CTE.
Of course headers in soccer contribute as does snow skiing.
They just recently banned headers in soccer in Ohio for anyone under U-12 I believe. Don't teach it, don't practice it and not allowed to be used in games.
funny you say that....my daughter's CYA league has young kids ref. In the first game, the ref called several headers as fouls. After the first game, not single call in a dozen games.
