This quote from Cael’s Press Conference yesterday...

[NittanyChris]

“These kids, who have the best chance of starting and going to the Big Ten Tournament, are the ones that we need to get the four matches.”

Very intriguing. In a “normal” season when there are weights that are up for grabs, we’d typically see Cael rotating guys for a while until one guy separates himself and shows he’s the better scoring option come tournament time. However, this is far from a normal year. To me, that quote suggests tomorrow we will see the team Cael thinks will be our tournament team right away. At least that’s the way I interpret it.

WE ARE!!!

 

[pointingdogsrule]

“These kids, who have the best chance of starting and going to the Big Ten Tournament, are the ones that we need to get the four matches.”

Very intriguing. In a “normal” season when there are weights that are up for grabs, we’d typically see Cael rotating guys for a while until one guy separates himself and shows he’s the better scoring option come tournament time. However, this is far from a normal year. To me, that quote suggests tomorrow we will see the team Cael thinks will be our tournament team right away. At least that’s the way I interpret it.

WE ARE!!!

I'm probably wrong. Don't the "all" the matches count towards the "four". Even the "undercard". Maybe i misunderstood or read wrong. Tia.

 

[NittanyChris]

I'm probably wrong. Don't the "all" the matches count towards the "four". Even the "undercard". Maybe i misunderstood or read wrong. Tia.

I think you’re correct. However, there’s definitely a question of how many undercard matches there will be given our recent Covid status.

 

[Kale_yeah]

I think you’re correct. However, there’s definitely a question of how many undercard matches there will be given our recent Covid status.

I think Cael wants as many as possible, bringing 20 wrestlers and wants all to wrestle and the starters to wrestle twice. But i could be mistaken.

 

[PSU Fan in TN]

PSU vs. Indiana @ 12:00; Northwestern vs. Indiana @ 2:00; PSU vs. Northwestern @ 4:00.

Does anyone know how many refs will be working the matches? I recall someone saying they were limited to hiring just two -- but I don't recall if that was for a dual or a tri. If they could have four refs, the undercard could wrestle at the same time as the starters, which may allow for a maximum of 60 matches between the 3 teams (if each team brings two wrestlers at each weight). If there are only the two refs and considering the time constraints, then perhaps the undercard matches begin at 6:00 and I then wonder how long the two refs will continue to work before calling it a day. It might be that not all 20 of the PSU wrestlers get a match if the starters wrestle twice. Looking forward to whatever it is!

 

[NoVa Lion]

PSU vs. Indiana @ 12:00; Northwestern vs. Indiana @ 2:00; PSU vs. Northwestern @ 4:00.

Does anyone know how many refs will be working the matches? I recall someone saying they were limited to hiring just two -- but I don't recall if that was for a dual or a tri. If they could have four refs, the undercard could wrestle at the same time as the starters, which may allow for a maximum of 60 matches between the 3 teams (if each team brings two wrestlers at each weight). If there are only the two refs and considering the time constraints, then perhaps the undercard matches begin at 6:00 and I then wonder how long the two refs will continue to work before calling it a day. It might be that not all 20 of the PSU wrestlers get a match if the starters wrestle twice. Looking forward to whatever it is!

I don;t know the answer to your question but I remember Cael mentioning that the number of refs that would be available would be something that limited the number of matches. That was several weeks ago prior to the Rutgers dual.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

“These kids, who have the best chance of starting and going to the Big Ten Tournament, are the ones that we need to get the four matches.”

Very intriguing. In a “normal” season when there are weights that are up for grabs, we’d typically see Cael rotating guys for a while until one guy separates himself and shows he’s the better scoring option come tournament time. However, this is far from a normal year. To me, that quote suggests tomorrow we will see the team Cael thinks will be our tournament team right away. At least that’s the way I interpret it.

WE ARE!!!

Given that this is utterly a free year of eligibility and no need to weigh the value of a redshirt, Cael is absolutely going to start the guy who has won and earned the #1 position in the room at each weight class assuming that #1 is injury/illness free. Otherwise #2 will go.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

“These kids, who have the best chance of starting and going to the Big Ten Tournament, are the ones that we need to get the four matches.”

Very intriguing. In a “normal” season when there are weights that are up for grabs, we’d typically see Cael rotating guys for a while until one guy separates himself and shows he’s the better scoring option come tournament time. However, this is far from a normal year. To me, that quote suggests tomorrow we will see the team Cael thinks will be our tournament team right away. At least that’s the way I interpret it.

WE ARE!!!

Again, there is no evidence that Cael ordains starters and "rotates" people as starters. You have no idea if these wrestlers aren't "rotating" themselves via the wrestling room.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Again, there is no evidence that Cael ordains starters and "rotates" people as starters. You have no idea if these wrestlers aren't "rotating" themselves via the wrestling room.

Huh?? There are literally COUNTLESS times Cael has rotated starters. Did you mistype?

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Given that this is utterly a free year of eligibility and no need to weigh the value of a redshirt, Cael is absolutely going to start the guy who has won and earned the #1 position in the room at each weight class assuming that #1 is injury/illness free. Otherwise #2 will go.

I’d bet C3 is looking for the 10 best tourney scoring wrestlers, but has no tourneys to use as gauge. If Cael can pull off a title this year it may be his best yet.

 

[nerfstate]

Again, there is no evidence that Cael ordains starters and "rotates" people as starters. You have no idea if these wrestlers aren't "rotating" themselves via the wrestling room.

It's now documented that Cassar lost to Rasheed in a wrestle off 3 or so days before the tOSU dual. I'm sure wrestle offs play a role in Cael's decision--but I think he looks at a host of other variables as well. All of them happen "in the room" because that's where they are--but he does not necessarily base who starts on who wins a wrestle off. He's said so himself on numerous occaisions.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Huh?? There are literally COUNTLESS times Cael has rotated starters. Did you mistype?

No, you have no idea how these wrestlers did against each other in the room. Are you really suggesting that PSU doesn't have wrestle-offs and Cael simply "names" starters each week?

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

No, you have no idea how these wrestlers did against each other in the room. Are you really suggesting that PSU doesn't have wrestle-offs and Cael simply "names" starters each week?

I have no idea how the choice is made, just know as a fact Cael has ROTATED STARTERS. Are you really arguing this?

Do you play KYPSW?

 

[JTNPSU84]

I believe the comment was when he was talking about extra matches and how they were going about that process. My take is that they (he referenced the coach’s meeting) all want as many wrestlers that have the potential, which I read as possibly more than one in a weight class, to qualify a spot to get matches.

 

[jack66]

I noticed that Red, Robb, Venz and Lance each wrestled 3 times at their tri-meet with NW and Md last weekend.

With UM cancelling for next week and uncertainty around rescheduling events, Cael might feel an urgency to get a few of his starters a 3rd match this weekend.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I have no idea how the choice is made, just know as a fact Cael has ROTATED STARTERS. Are you really arguing this?

Do you play KYPSW?

Again, you have no idea if those wrestlers aren't beating each other in the room for #1, but you keep right on saying it is Cael "rotating" them. [eyeroll]

 

[jtothemfp]

Here are some of the ways I'm looking at Cael looking at things:

• The meaning of "starter" is 95% about the lineup sent to B1Gs
• The other 5% of the meaning of starter is for the distinction between the bouts that count toward the Dual Meet and the bouts that count as Extra Matches (it's stipulated that both flavors count toward postseason eligibility and all its own attenuated flavors previously discussed in other threads)
  • The subset of this meaningfulness relates to which bouts have video that fans (and competitors) can see
  • So far, I think other teams' Extra Matches have only been after the Dual Meet and thus, have not had their video streamed on the same service the Dual Meet bouts were video streamed. Footnote1
  • Tris & Quads complicate guesses as to which bouts fans might see--tons of questions here. Footnote2
  • Mostly, though, if we assume fans get to see video of Dual Meet bouts, but do NOT get to see Extra Bouts, I will guess that, prior to B1Gs, Cael will probably not 'start' dudes recovering from injury
  • aka: I'm guessing we fans will NOT see video of Howard or Kerklvliet, but WILL see their written results

Footnote1:
- Has anybody read of any teams streaming video of extra matches on their own, via FBLive or Insta or something?

Footnote2:
- For a strictly dual Dual, we've seen some variations of mat setups vis a vis COVID requirements
- One setup = two mats for two teams battling. Bout 1 on Mat 1. Then Bout 2 on Bout2 while Mat 1 gets cleaned
- Another setup, which really slows the Dual Meet down = one mat, with cleaning between every bout
- What have you all seen for COVID mat setups for Tris you've seen or read about?

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Again, you have no idea if those wrestlers aren't beating each other in the room for #1, but you keep right on saying it is Cael "rotating" them. [eyeroll]

Cael has rotated starters for years, it one of the great things about having such depth. Are we not on same page as to what a “starter” is?


There is a good chance we will see Cael rotate starters tomorrow. 149 would be my first guess.

 

[jtothemfp]

I noticed that Red, Robb, Venz and Lance each wrestled 3 times at their tri-meet with NW and Md last weekend.

With UM cancelling for next week and uncertainty around rescheduling events, Cael might feel an urgency to get a few of his starters a 3rd match this weekend.

Oh, heavily agreed!

If they've succeeded in getting as far as actually traveling, I'd guess that he'll try to get as many traveling wrestlers absolutely as many bouts as time reasonably allows. They're traveling 18 guys this weekend (via Twitter, via Match Notes). What's the most Extra Bouts people have seen? Pretty sure I saw at least 6 in a tOSU results list. Guessing we could see somebody like RBY maybe even get all 4 needed bouts just this weekend.

 

[dunkej01]

PUBLIC HEALTH ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Debating bushwood could lead to an aneurism

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Cael has rotated starters for years, it one of the great things about having such depth. Are we not on same page as to what a “starter” is?


There is a good chance we will see Cael rotate starters tomorrow. 149 would be my first guess.

There is a difference between giving a #1 a rest on a heavy weekend with multiple duals (which Cael has done frequently) and rotating by declaration who is #1 at the weight. When Cael has done this, the #1 wrestles against the elite, highly ranked team and the #2 will go against the lower ranked team that poses no threat.

 

[NoVa Lion]

There is a difference between giving a #1 a rest on a heavy weekend with multiple duals (which Cael has done frequently) and rotating by declaration who is #1 at the weight. When Cael has done this, the #1 wrestles against the elite, highly ranked team and the #2 will go against the lower ranked team that poses no threat.

You two should give it a rest since neither of you (or any of us) know every thing that goes into Cael, etal deciding on who the starter is any given weight.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

There is a difference between giving a #1 a rest on a heavy weekend with multiple duals (which Cael has done frequently) and rotating by declaration who is #1 at the weight. When Cael has done this, the #1 wrestles against the elite, highly ranked team and the #2 will go against the lower ranked team that poses no threat.

”giving a guy a rest” is “rotating starters” in my book, must not be in yours, fair enough.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

You two should give it a rest since neither of you (or any of us) know every thing that goes into Cael, etal deciding on who the starter is any given weight.

Agreed, im out! 😤

 

[Sportfan2017]

There is a difference between giving a #1 a rest on a heavy weekend with multiple duals (which Cael has done frequently) and rotating by declaration who is #1 at the weight. When Cael has done this, the #1 wrestles against the elite, highly ranked team and the #2 will go against the lower ranked team that poses no threat.

So ...by replacing the "#1" guy with a different wrestler........the guy who actually wrestled the match wasn't the starter? And Cael didn't choose the starter who actually wrestled......he just chose who started and actually wrestled? String Theory is easier to understand than your postulate

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

So ...by replacing the "#1" guy with a different wrestler........the guy who actually wrestled the match wasn't the starter? And Cael didn't choose the starter who actually wrestled......he just chose who started and actually wrestled? String Theory is easier to understand than your postulate

Are you rotating in for me? NoVa pulled me☹️

 

[jack66]

Oh, heavily agreed!

What's the most Extra Bouts people have seen? Pretty sure I saw at least 6 in a tOSU results list. Guessing we could see somebody like RBY maybe even get all 4 needed bouts just this weekend.

Neb/NW/Md wrestled 17 extra matches, 8 of those were Neb vs NW.

In effect, Neb got 13 extra matches, NW got 12 and Md wrestled 9 extra.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

It's now documented that Cassar lost to Rasheed in a wrestle off 3 or so days before the tOSU dual. I'm sure wrestle offs play a role in Cael's decision--but I think he looks at a host of other variables as well. All of them happen "in the room" because that's where they are--but he does not necessarily base who starts on who wins a wrestle off. He's said so himself on numerous occaisions.

And Cael did not demote Shack from #1 to #2 as the rest of the season and B1Gs quite definitively proved. Cael did not promote Cassar to #1 - you have no idea why Cael wrestled Cassar in that match, maybe Shack was dinged up and he didn't want him to go against the #1 ranked wrestler in the nation that weekend. But his intention was clearly not to name Cassar the #1 at 97 and demote Shack to #2 as the following match and rest of the season prove quite dramatically. You have no idea why Cael wrestled the #2 that week, but it certainly wasn't because Cael had changed the #1 by declaration as the very next week and rest of the season unquestionably prove.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Neb/NW/Md wrestled 17 extra matches, 8 of those were Neb vs NW.

In effect, Neb got 13 extra matches, NW got 12 and Md wrestled 9 extra.

Cool, I sure hope we get a similar amount tomorrow,and even better yet if someone airs them!

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

So ...by replacing the "#1" guy with a different wrestler........the guy who actually wrestled the match wasn't the starter? And Cael didn't choose the starter who actually wrestled......he just chose who started and actually wrestled? String Theory is easier to understand than your postulate

You clearly don't understand the difference between a #1 wrestler in a room at a specific weight-class and who potentially starts a specific match. A #2 wrestler at a weight class can start a in a specific match for many, many, many reasons other than Cael willy-nilly naming them the #1... You clearly have never wrestled in an organized room, so I'm not going to sit here and debate this nonsense with you.

 

[NoVa Lion]

And Cael did not demote Shack from #1 to #2 as the rest of the season and B1Gs quite definitively proved. Cael did not promote Cassar to #1 - you have no idea why Cael wrestled Cassar in that match, maybe Shack was dinged up and he didn't want him to go against the #1 ranked wrestler in the nation that weekend. But his intention was clearly not to name Cassar the #1 at 97 and demote Shack to #2 as the following match and rest of the season prove quite dramatically. You have no idea why Cael wrestled the #2 that week, but it certainly wasn't because Cael had changed the #1 by declaration as the very next week and rest of the season unquestionably prove.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[nerfstate]

And Cael did not demote Shack from #1 to #2 as the rest of the season and B1Gs quite definitively proved. Cael did not promote Cassar to #1 - you have no idea why Cael wrestled Cassar in that match, maybe Shack was dinged up and he didn't want him to go against the #1 ranked wrestler in the nation that weekend. But his intention was clearly not to name Cassar the #1 at 97 and demote Shack to #2 as the following match and rest of the season prove quite dramatically. You have no idea why Cael wrestled the #2 that week, but it certainly wasn't because Cael had changed the #1 by declaration as the very next week and rest of the season unquestionably prove.

Do you find yourself in a lot of arguments in your life? It seems you have very particular--if not also very fluid--definitions of certain terms that makes it difficult to understand what you are trying to say. What does "declare" mean to you in this context? How about "#1 & #2"? "Starter"? "Room"?

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Do you find yourself in a lot of arguments in your life? It seems you have very particular--if not also very fluid--definitions of certain terms that makes it difficult to understand what you are trying to say. What does "declare" mean to you in this context? How about "#1 & #2"? "Starter"? "Room"?

LMAO, if you've never wrestled, you clearly wouldn't understand what any of this means or how it really works. Which has been my point all along and you have proved beyond any shadow of a doubt.

 

[nerfstate]

LMAO, if you've never wrestled, you clearly wouldn't understand what any of this means or how it really works. Which has been my point all along and you have proved beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Hey, at least you get to walk out of this debate feeling superior to a bunch of randos on the internet. Here you go!
🏆

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Somebody need a snickers

#eatitjoepallsorrynova

 

[jtothemfp]

Neb/NW/Md wrestled 17 extra matches, 8 of those were Neb vs NW.

In effect, Neb got 13 extra matches, NW got 12 and Md wrestled 9 extra.

Thanks, dude! It's really refreshing when a mess board shares useful info and isn't just a steaming thread of mess. Although...BWI's Ignore function is something I've really changed my mind on over the years.

Can't wait to see what combinations of the 18 travelers wrestling two sets of 10 Dual Bouts + x amt of Extra Bouts gives us!

 

[Used2BEerie]

LMAO, if you've never wrestled, you clearly wouldn't understand what any of this means or how it really works. Which has been my point all along and you have proved beyond any shadow of a doubt.

How many scoring wrestlers do we need for NCAA's? I am betting your answer is 8 just like when you used to post under a different name.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Hey, at least you get to walk out of this debate feeling superior to a bunch of randos on the internet. Here you go!
🏆

Has nothing to do with my point. My point is that Cael doesn't name weekly staters similar to the way a football team works. Really not how it works in a wrestling room at all.

 

[RoarLions1]

I noticed that Red, Robb, Venz and Lance each wrestled 3 times at their tri-meet with NW and Md last weekend.

With UM cancelling for next week and uncertainty around rescheduling events, Cael might feel an urgency to get a few of his starters a 3rd match this weekend.

^^ This. One, two, or all three of the postponed matches (Rutgers, MSU & Michigan) may not be wrestled. Cael & Co. wants at least two guys at most of the weight classes to have four bouts. But it's complicated...

Many of the non-starters could and would earn the B1G a slot at the conference tourney, upping the chances that a back-up could earn a spot at NCAA's in the unfortunate event a starter is unable to go. And to make things more complicated, IF the starter can't go at B1G's, but has all the criteria to go to NCAA's as an at-large, AND the window of his recovery allows him to go to NCAA's, the non-starter would NOT go at B1G's. Lots of decisions along the way that will impact the team that's sent to the NCAA Tournament. I hope not, but believe we will see some qualifiers (not PSU's I'm praying) miss the NCAA Tournament.

 

[Sportfan2017]

Are you rotating in for me? NoVa pulled me☹

Is this a sex thing? Either way......I'm in.......tee hee