Thread on testing & treatment research for COVID-19

[jwarigaku]

Spin master,

long story short, since my reply got whacked while Rivals went crazy for the last 30 minutes, I’d use it for my family in combination with HCQ, Zinc, and a ZPac...well maybe not my mother-in-law, have to make sure everything used on her went through double-blind independent clinical research studies.

What about use of CPAPs with high O2? Heard several reports that this is more successful than vents.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[TheGLOV]

https://www.collegian.psu.edu/news/...oh-qOUCJImccT_Etw5nij3fsKrOAa2nIYBDsSIXBks26E

 

[TheGLOV]

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WUHAN, China—Chinese doctors who have for months treated coronavirus patients with chloroquine say there is no clear evidence the anti-malarial drug is effective against the deadly pathogen, raising questions about a remedy President Trump has touted as a potential cure.

One of them, however, saw some promise for Kaletra—an antiretroviral drug for HIV.

^^ The rest of the article requires a subscription.

China also imprisoned or killed the first medical doctor who publicly stated that the new virus was a potential killer!

 

[TheGLOV]

https://www.newsweek.com/ivermectin...dORCkxrVqXyF6Ph9bKApHPovMxBPE83Rr7TGs4vSs-Vho

 

[rudedude]

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I thought I had read that folks on certain types of blood pressure meds had an increased risk for worse corona virus symptoms. Specifically the ACE2 inhibitors appears more problematic and can enhance the effects of the virus. Glad I’m on a beta blocker post my surgery.
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-...-the-way-to-possible-covid-19-treatment-67371

 

[BFPSU]

 

[The Spin Meister]

They have tried that however a CPAP is not an enclosed system and can aerosolize the virus into the surrounding air. This is what is postulated to have happened in the Washington State nursing home.

Saw Dr from Holy Name Hospital (Ithink NY area)set up CPAPs in negative pressure rooms and allowed only one nurse/PA in the room per shift to cut down on PPE. burn rate.

 

[ChiTownLion]

University of Michigan hospitals to stop using Hydroxychloroquine due to a lack of results and serious side effects.

Should people with COVID-19 take chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine? Do you prescribe them to your patients with COVID-19?

Michigan Medicine just changed its guidelines on prescribing these drugs. There’s a lot of excitement about whether these already existing options for malaria could be useful in COVID-19, but so far that excitement hasn’t materialized in patient care data.

“Our infectious disease division and our antimicrobial pharmacists have reviewed all the available data and we found no convincing evidence that these drugs were effective in treating people with COVID-19,” Kaul says.

That’s consistent with what’s been observed firsthand in Michigan Medicine’s hospitals.

“We haven’t seen any clear evidence of benefit so we aren’t going to use hydroxychloroquine routinely anymore,” Chopra says. “We were initially recommending it to both inpatients and outpatients, but we’re no longer doing that routinely. That’s based upon the fact that we’ve been prescribing hydroxychloroquine for a few weeks, did not see therapeutic benefit, but did see adverse effects.”

 

[Steve G]

SteveG,

You sound a lot like my buddy at Regeneron. Metablomics falls into the biologic therapy class in my limited view, but that’s probably because my background is biochem/biophysics rather than biology/micro. I appreciate your vision and why I asked why you classed it as you did.

Regeneron makes humanized monoclonal antibodies as treatments for various diseases. They have novel technology to generate mass quantities of different monoclonals. They are developing neutralizing antibodies targeting the virus but also have an anti IL-6 antibody which they are looking at to prevent ARDS. There are a number of IL-6 antibodies from number companies in play right now targeting the end stage lung diseases aspect of COVID

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[The Spin Meister]

University of Michigan hospitals to stop using Hydroxychloroquine due to a lack of results and serious side effects.

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Should people with COVID-19 take chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine? Do you prescribe them to your patients with COVID-19?

Michigan Medicine just changed its guidelines on prescribing these drugs. There’s a lot of excitement about whether these already existing options for malaria could be useful in COVID-19, but so far that excitement hasn’t materialized in patient care data.

“Our infectious disease division and our antimicrobial pharmacists have reviewed all the available data and we found no convincing evidence that these drugs were effective in treating people with COVID-19,” Kaul says.

That’s consistent with what’s been observed firsthand in Michigan Medicine’s hospitals.

“We haven’t seen any clear evidence of benefit so we aren’t going to use hydroxychloroquine routinely anymore,” Chopra says. “We were initially recommending it to both inpatients and outpatients, but we’re no longer doing that routinely. That’s based upon the fact that we’ve been prescribing hydroxychloroquine for a few weeks, did not see therapeutic benefit, but did see adverse effects.”

This is bizarre. Lots of Drs/hospitals/researchers get soild results. Yet many get no results.

Can it be dosage/timing/patients differences? Or something else?

 

[tboyer]

Nothing out on that yet, very little detail but it looks like they gave it to very sick people. In theory that may be too late for an antiviral to do its thing. The best argument for any anti-viral is to give it early, at the first symptoms. But there have certainly been plenty of reports of doctors giving it late and seeing people recover, so you can't rule it out.

Anyway, any results is good I think. It may be a bit of a yo-yo as interim reports come out from all the studies, but we will learn a little bit more each week.

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[Obliviax]

Nothing out on that yet, very little detail but it looks like they gave it to very sick people. In theory that may be too late for an antiviral to do its thing. The best argument for any anti-viral is to give it early, at the first symptoms. But there have certainly been plenty of reports of doctors giving it late and seeing people recover, so you can't rule it out.

Anyway, any results is good I think. It may be a bit of a yo-yo as interim reports come out from all the studies, but we will learn a little bit more each week.

I also wonder: positives stories I’ve seen are regarding using HCQ in combination with other drugs. A test with HCQ by itself may not show benefit

 

[blion72]

I also wonder: positives stories I’ve seen are regarding using HCQ in combination with other drugs. A test with HCQ by itself may not show benefit

Macron visited the region of France that is using this tool as it has been so different than the the rest of France.

I believe those doctors who have been using this with focus have seen impact of both HCQ, but much more significant with Z-pack and sometimes zinc. many docs in the US are using HCQ on its own. also the French dosage is 2-3x vs and NYC application, and is being modified by patient factors.

how do you get a peer reviewed paper to a Journal when Michigan was so late to the application of these drugs? NYC results are said to be mid-summer before we have all their study done.

 

[brupsu]

Heard last night that there are three versions of this virus.Can one vaccine work on all three?Or will it be pot luck as the flu vaccine seems to be?

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[jwarigaku]

It’s very unfortunate but it’s politics as normal on both sides, we ALL need to check the politics at the door. Even the moderators.

This is bizarre. Lots of Drs/hospitals/researchers get soild results. Yet many get no results.

Can it be dosage/timing/patients differences? Or something else?

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[interrobang]

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[interrobang]

Heard last night that there are three versions of this virus.Can one vaccine work on all three?Or will it be pot luck as the flu vaccine seems to be?

There are as many as 8 strains. But the differences are so minor it's not a concern as it relates to its effects on humans.

 

[ChiTownLion]

Let's say something like Hydroxychloroquine is found to work. So, someone gets sick, takes the med combo, recovers and life goes back to normal. Does this make the patient any more or less vulnerable to a second wave of infection?

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Let's say something like Hydroxychloroquine is found to work. So, someone gets sick, takes the med combo, recovers and life goes back to normal. Does this make the patient any more or less vulnerable to a second wave of infection?

no one knows HCL or not

 

[interrobang]

 

[jwarigaku]

Clarkston,

The period of immunity is unknown, but if you have had COVID19 and recover you will have generated an antigen response and antibodies.

ChiTown,

When you recover you build immune response, the strength of this response will differ from individual to individual.

no one knows HCL or not

 

[interrobang]

Your body still has to generate antibodies to fight off the virus. The medicines just slow the virus down so your own immune system can finish the job.

 

[The Spin Meister]

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Ok, so the HQX, if it works, does so by changing the intracellular environment from acidic to basic....at least to some small degree. This then makes the lipids in the virus less likely to cross cell membranes.

So if this is true, then does being on a keto diet help defend against this virus? What about other viruses that are lipid globules? Are all viruses lipid globules? The idea of a keto diet is to reduce the acidity of the system. While the changes may be very small, the effect might be dramatic.

And if true, is this a big reason why keto diets seem to be healthier. Does the keto shift protect the body from various viruses, bacteria, cancerous cells, or other health insults? Fascinating.....

 

[The Spin Meister]

Your body still has to generate antibodies to fight off the virus. The medicines just slow the virus down so your own immune system can finish the job.

Actually, based on various reports, the medicine slows the cytokine storm, the over reaction of the immune system, mitigating the damage done by an immune system out of control.

 

[ChiTownLion]

New Delhi:

The Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR) on Saturday said that hydroxychloroquine or HCQ should be used as prophylaxis to prevent the coronavirus and not as a treatment for COVID-19.

"Two trials were conducted abroad. The trials were not good enough. So, we thought if it needs to used in our country, it should be used as prophylaxis, and not as a treatment," Raman R Ganagakhedkar, Head Scientist, ICMR, told ANI.

"We have decided that if it reduces the chances of COVID-19 among doctors and their contacts, then we will advise it to others. The results of the effect of HCQ in them is yet to come," he added.

He, however, cautioned that HCQ has side effects as well.

"We have never recommended it to the general public. Doctors are advised to prescribe to patients judiciously. People need not be worried nor they need to start using HCQ. Like other medicines, this has side effects too. If we get the desired or futile results, we will inform the public," said Mr Ganagakhedkar.

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[Art]

Clarkston,

The period of immunity is unknown, but if you have had COVID19 and recover you will have generated an antigen response and antibodies.

ChiTown,

When you recover you build immune response, the strength of this response will differ from individual to individual.

Maybe.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...patients-testing-positive-again-idUSKCN21S15X

 

[interrobang]

There's a better chance they had a false positive test the first time around than there is getting infected again

 

[interrobang]

Actually, based on various reports, the medicine slows the cytokine storm, the over reaction of the immune system, mitigating the damage done by an immune system out of control.

Some do that. Others make it harder for the virus to infect cells in the first place.

 

[jwarigaku]

Interrobang,

it’s possible that it’s happening in limited cases. This has been documented with things like chickenpox for example. It’s the anomaly but still could be happening.

There's a better chance they had a false positive test the first time around than there is getting infected again

 

[ChiTownLion]

Doctor self-medicated with Hydroxychloroquine + Azithromycin.

 

[TheGLOV]

Let's say something like Hydroxychloroquine is found to work. So, someone gets sick, takes the med combo, recovers and life goes back to normal. Does this make the patient any more or less vulnerable to a second wave of infection?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Wesauking Lion]

These small studies are all over the place... some positive, some not... not sure what is the direction.

I was thinking the combo showed promise but more data is showing otherwise..