TOM Preseason Rankings
- Thread starter RoarLions1
- Start date
Not much love but nothing to worry about. Im sure we will greatly exceed those expectations.
I'm not sure if I follow. Seems to be somewhat close to Flo's preseason rankings, going from memory. Let me do a comparison (sorry if the layout screws things up)
Flo TOM
125 2 2 (no difference)
133 12 14 (difference of 2 places - lower)
141 2 3 (difference of 1 place - lower)
149 2 3 (difference of 1 place - lower)
157 7 8 (difference of 1 place - lower)
165 11 10 (difference of 1 - higher)
174 17 20 (difference of 3 - lower)
184 13 13 (no difference)
197 1 1 (no difference)
285 7 12 (difference of 5 - lower)
So 3 of 10 rankings are identical, 4 of 10 are a difference of 1, 1 of 10 is a difference of 1, 1 of 10 is a difference of 3, and 1 of 10 is a difference of 5.
With 7 of the 10 virtually the same as Flo's rankings, it's hard to claim that TOM's rankings are off the mark, or that they are not showing PSU any love.
With Nolf, Nevills, and Nickal having never been in a college dual, and Gulibon, Zain, JC at new weights (in JC's case from last season), it's somewhat surprising to me that the rankings are so close. The biggest deltas are for Nevills and Nickal, which makes sense.
I would love to hear their explanation for the Nevills ranking. He had wins last year over the guys they have ranked 8th and 9th. His only loss was to the guy they have ranked 5th. How do they not put him somewhere between 6th and 8th?
I'll eat my hat if there are seven 157 pounders better than Nolf at season's end.
I have no problem explaining anything. First keep in mind these are preseason rankings not our best guess as to what will happen at the end of a season. The top guys are placed based on Last years NCAA finish in order with previous AA inserted if they took a non-freshman RS like Nico or Henderson. I will address Nolf First. Will he finish above those ahead of him now? Sure why not he is that good, but for a preseason ranking for a guy who has yet to wrestle a Varsity match being ranked in the top 10 is more than reasonable.
Nevilles, I am very high on and have been since he was in HS. But again this is preseason and what is wrong with working your way up the rankings? He is coming off an injury that sidelined him for awhile. He has 7 matches to his resume in college and is ranked 12th in the country and that is upsetting? He does have those two solid wins, but those guys also wrestled a full season. Him being 12th is not a slight it is a nod to how good I think he is considering he has only 7 matches. I do not just rank my favorite guys etc.. We put a lot of time and thought into the rankings and always have and have been doing it longer than Flo. Flo had Alton ranked insanely high all year last year, why? I have no idea.
Once the season starts our rankings are done as a snap shot of that exact time, not a prediction for nationals or what a wrestler did two years ago. Some may agree or disagree with this method, but it has always been our approach. Do we miss sometimes? Yes we do and are more than happy to own up to it, but again these are not done to be predictions.
125: Nico is two where he belongs IMO. I am not a fan of Tomasello, but he won it last year so he starts at One.
133: I actually think Conaway ends up doing better up a weight but we will see. Note in rankings generally once you get past No. 10 guys become pretty much a blur and could fall anywhere in the next 10. Some weights are less like that than others.
141: I think I personally have Jimmy a bit to high considering the jump in weight. When Jimmy is aggressive and attacks he is one of my favorite to watch, when he goes into Defense mode, not so much.
149: I think Retherford is where he should be for now.
157: already talked about
165: Should end the season higher than 10.
174: I for sure think Bo ends up far higher. But looking at last year 20 is fair.
184: It is a tough weight, but I can see him moving up.
197: He is one so I think you all are ok with that.
285: explained.
I like discussing these things and will always try to address questions people have.
V (Sorry if there are typos I am writing from a phone right now).
Nevilles, I am very high on and have been since he was in HS. But again this is preseason and what is wrong with working your way up the rankings? He is coming off an injury that sidelined him for awhile. He has 7 matches to his resume in college and is ranked 12th in the country and that is upsetting? He does have those two solid wins, but those guys also wrestled a full season. Him being 12th is not a slight it is a nod to how good I think he is considering he has only 7 matches. I do not just rank my favorite guys etc.. We put a lot of time and thought into the rankings and always have and have been doing it longer than Flo. Flo had Alton ranked insanely high all year last year, why? I have no idea.
Once the season starts our rankings are done as a snap shot of that exact time, not a prediction for nationals or what a wrestler did two years ago. Some may agree or disagree with this method, but it has always been our approach. Do we miss sometimes? Yes we do and are more than happy to own up to it, but again these are not done to be predictions.
125: Nico is two where he belongs IMO. I am not a fan of Tomasello, but he won it last year so he starts at One.
133: I actually think Conaway ends up doing better up a weight but we will see. Note in rankings generally once you get past No. 10 guys become pretty much a blur and could fall anywhere in the next 10. Some weights are less like that than others.
141: I think I personally have Jimmy a bit to high considering the jump in weight. When Jimmy is aggressive and attacks he is one of my favorite to watch, when he goes into Defense mode, not so much.
149: I think Retherford is where he should be for now.
157: already talked about
165: Should end the season higher than 10.
174: I for sure think Bo ends up far higher. But looking at last year 20 is fair.
184: It is a tough weight, but I can see him moving up.
197: He is one so I think you all are ok with that.
285: explained.
I like discussing these things and will always try to address questions people have.
V (Sorry if there are typos I am writing from a phone right now).
V,
Thanks!! Many may not know you, and your history. Above is a perfect example...whether fans agree or disagree, you're always willing to have a candid discussion about your rankings with reasonable people. Your comments explained much, including where you believe our guys will move up as the season progresses.
Roar
Thanks!! Many may not know you, and your history. Above is a perfect example...whether fans agree or disagree, you're always willing to have a candid discussion about your rankings with reasonable people. Your comments explained much, including where you believe our guys will move up as the season progresses.
Roar
V,
An excellent breakdown of TOM's approach, and the thought process behind the preseason rankings. Appreciate the post.
InterMat posted their preseason weight class rankings, so let's see how PSUers are ranked there in comparison to TOM and Flo.
125 - Nico ranked 2nd (same as Flo and TOM)
133 - JC ranked 8th (Flo has him 12th and TOM has him 14th)
141 - Gulibon ranked 3rd (Flo has him 2nd and TOM has him 3rd)
149 - Zain ranked 2nd (Flo has him 2nd and TOM has him 3rd)
157 - Nolf ranked 7th (Flo has him 7th and TOM has him 8th)
165 - Hammond ranked 14th (Flo has him 11th and TOM has him 10th)
174 - Nickal ranked 14th (Flo has him 17th and TOM has him 20th)
184 - Cutch ranked 13th (same as Flo and TOM)
197 - Scratch ranked 1st (same as Flo and TOM)
285 - Nevills ranked 10th (Flo has him 7th and TOM has him 12th)
So the biggest deltas are for Nickal, Nevills, Hammond and JC. Nickals and Nevills had limited RS campaigns due to injuries, Hammond was up and down and is battling for a spot, and JC is moving up a weight class, so it makes sense that the various services rank these guys differently.
An excellent breakdown of TOM's approach, and the thought process behind the preseason rankings. Appreciate the post.
InterMat posted their preseason weight class rankings, so let's see how PSUers are ranked there in comparison to TOM and Flo.
125 - Nico ranked 2nd (same as Flo and TOM)
133 - JC ranked 8th (Flo has him 12th and TOM has him 14th)
141 - Gulibon ranked 3rd (Flo has him 2nd and TOM has him 3rd)
149 - Zain ranked 2nd (Flo has him 2nd and TOM has him 3rd)
157 - Nolf ranked 7th (Flo has him 7th and TOM has him 8th)
165 - Hammond ranked 14th (Flo has him 11th and TOM has him 10th)
174 - Nickal ranked 14th (Flo has him 17th and TOM has him 20th)
184 - Cutch ranked 13th (same as Flo and TOM)
197 - Scratch ranked 1st (same as Flo and TOM)
285 - Nevills ranked 10th (Flo has him 7th and TOM has him 12th)
So the biggest deltas are for Nickal, Nevills, Hammond and JC. Nickals and Nevills had limited RS campaigns due to injuries, Hammond was up and down and is battling for a spot, and JC is moving up a weight class, so it makes sense that the various services rank these guys differently.
Never said 12 is "upsetting." It's illogical.
He beat the guys you have at 8 and 9. He had no losses to anyone below them. You are alone among the rankers at placing him below Shaw and Dejournette. And you don't seem to have a good reason.
Also I believe he wrestled 12 matches last year, not 7.
He beat the guys you have at 8 and 9. He had no losses to anyone below them. You are alone among the rankers at placing him below Shaw and Dejournette. And you don't seem to have a good reason.
Also I believe he wrestled 12 matches last year, not 7.
Onceafish: Again that is fine you do not agree. He wrestled 7 complete matches. I do Actually look at their records. I went with two wrestlers who competed in an entire season and qualified for the NCAA tournament in this case. Also like I said I am very high on what I think he can do. I have told many people since he was in HS that he will be a great College wrestler. His injury and limited matches are what held him back. I personally think if he is at 100% he could do something that is very hard to do at this weight and that is compete for a national title as a freshman. These are simply preseason rankings, meaning no matches have been wrestled this year. I am sure he will work his way up in little time.
1. 11/16/2014
Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) over Patrik Garren (Pennsylvania) (Fall 3:59)
2. 12/07/2014
Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) over David Farr (Army) (Fall 2:18)
3. 12/07/2014
Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) over Dan Garwood (Virginia Tech) (Dec 6-2)
4. 01/01 - 01/02/2015
Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) over Jacob Kettler (George Mason) (Dec 6-0)
5. 01/01 - 01/02/2015
Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) over Denzel Dejournette (Appalachian State) (Dec 7-6)
6. 01/01 - 01/02/2015
Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) over Riley Shaw (Cleveland State) (Dec 6-1)
7. 01/01 - 01/02/2015
Austin Marsden (Oklahoma State) over Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) (MD 11-3)
1. 11/16/2014
Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) over Patrik Garren (Pennsylvania) (Fall 3:59)
2. 12/07/2014
Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) over David Farr (Army) (Fall 2:18)
3. 12/07/2014
Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) over Dan Garwood (Virginia Tech) (Dec 6-2)
4. 01/01 - 01/02/2015
Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) over Jacob Kettler (George Mason) (Dec 6-0)
5. 01/01 - 01/02/2015
Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) over Denzel Dejournette (Appalachian State) (Dec 7-6)
6. 01/01 - 01/02/2015
Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) over Riley Shaw (Cleveland State) (Dec 6-1)
7. 01/01 - 01/02/2015
Austin Marsden (Oklahoma State) over Nicholas Nevills (Penn State) (MD 11-3)
11/16/14 East Stroudsburg Nicholas Lupi (Sacred Heart) W Fall
11/16/14 East Stroudsburg Raymond ODonnell (Princeton) W 9-2
11/16/14 East Stroudsburg Patrik Garren (Pennsylvania) W Fall
11/16/14 East Stroudsburg Zachery Roseberry (Del Valley) W Fall
11/16/14 East Stroudsburg Billy Miller (Edinboro) W 4-3
12/7/14 Nittany Lion Open David Farr (Army) W Fall 2:18
12/7/14 Nittany Lion Open Mauro Correnti (Unattached) W Fall
12/7/14 Nittany Lion Open Dan Garwood (Virginia Tech) W 6-2
01/1/15 Southern Scuffle Jacob kettler (George Mason) W 6-0
01/1/15 Southern Scuffle Denzel Dejournette (App State) W 7-6
01/2/15 Southern Scuffle #19 Riley Shaw (Cleveland State) W 5-1
01/2/15 Southern Scuffle #4 Austin Marsden (Ok State) L MD 11-3
11/16/14 East Stroudsburg Raymond ODonnell (Princeton) W 9-2
11/16/14 East Stroudsburg Patrik Garren (Pennsylvania) W Fall
11/16/14 East Stroudsburg Zachery Roseberry (Del Valley) W Fall
11/16/14 East Stroudsburg Billy Miller (Edinboro) W 4-3
12/7/14 Nittany Lion Open David Farr (Army) W Fall 2:18
12/7/14 Nittany Lion Open Mauro Correnti (Unattached) W Fall
12/7/14 Nittany Lion Open Dan Garwood (Virginia Tech) W 6-2
01/1/15 Southern Scuffle Jacob kettler (George Mason) W 6-0
01/1/15 Southern Scuffle Denzel Dejournette (App State) W 7-6
01/2/15 Southern Scuffle #19 Riley Shaw (Cleveland State) W 5-1
01/2/15 Southern Scuffle #4 Austin Marsden (Ok State) L MD 11-3
