Tom Ryan Interview

[CJLion]

I get it, it may be a shame, but as it stands, casual fans like you are keeping tabs on what's going on at the NCAA wrestling tournaments for 3 straight days. It's just the nature of wrestling or any individual sport for that matter. Go to a dual meet format and more often than not, you won't be tuning into until the championship match. And even then, coaches will default to what's best for the individual wrestler over the team if the individual tournament is still 4-6 weeks away. Just listen to the interviews with the Penn State wrestlers from this past weekend when asked about the team race. They repeatedly said their focus is on doing the best they can, not worrying about the team race, and in the process the team race will take care of itself.

I follow every dual meet -- and find it frustrating when teams obviously aren't putting their best foot forward whether it be forfeits or holding out your top 3 guys ala buffalo.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts. Personally I would enjoy a dual format and even though we know it would likely come down to us and the buckeyes, we've also known the NBA finals would come down to the warriors and lebrons - yet people still watch their journey there.

 

[nitlion6]

I'm not following. You don't make the World Series or super bowl or any of those other things if you don't qualify. There are rounds leading up to that.

Losing dual meets wouldn't have mattered just like losing the big 10 championship didn't matter. years from now do you think anyone will care who the big 10 champs were (other than us and them)

The nats lost in the nlds. Guess what - that mattered. The jags lost in the afc championship. Guess what - that mattered. The US didn't do well enough in their qualifying games in soccer. Guess what - no World Cup for them.

If Snyder decked nick during the dual meet, that would have altered the outcome but I'm pretty sure it would have had no impact on the national championship. However, if we held on in Columbus in football, that regular season game would have had a tremendous impact on the national championship.

Wow. Pick and choose to make things fit.

Super Bowl. Patriots go 16 - 0, yet the Giants are champions.

World Series - Seattle Mariners win 116 regular season games, yet the Arizona Diamondback were champions.

March Madness Gorgetown ranked number 1 all season enters 1985 championship game with a 35 - 2 record. Villanova with a final record of 25 - 10 is champion.

Stanley Cup last year best records were Washington Capitals (Eastetn Conference) with 118 points and Chicago Blackhawks (Western Conference) with 109 points. Yet the Pens were champions after beating the Nashville Wild in the finals.

On and on. Same exact thing. Regular season games are played and the season is used to prepare for post-season competition and records are used as qualifiers and rankings for the post season play. Nobody who qualifies gets some sort of head start advantage.

 

[CJLion]

Wow. Pick and choose to make things fit.

Super Bowl. Patriots go 16 - 0, yet the Giants are champions.

World Series - Seattle Mariners win 116 regular season games, yet the Arizona Diamondback were champions.

March Madness Gorgetown ranked number 1 all season enters 1985 championship game with a 35 - 2 record. Villanova with a final record of 25 - 10 is champion.

Stanley Cup last year best records were Washington Capitals (Eastetn Conference) with 118 points and Chicago Blackhawks (Western Conference) with 109 points. Yet the Penguin were champions after beating the Nashville Wild in the finals.

On and on. Same exact thing. Regular season games are played and the season is used to prepare for post-season competition and records are used as qualifiers and rankings for the post season play. Nobody who qualifies gets some sort of head start advantage.

I think we're agreeing. A teams' record matters when qualifying for the postseason in these sports.

In college wrestling a teams record has no bearing in how a championship is awarded.

 

[nitlion6]

I think we're agreeing. A teams' record matters when qualifying for the postseason in these sports.

In college wrestling a teams record has no bearing in how a championship is awarded.

We are not agreeing.
How a team's werestlers do during the regular season determines how many qualifying spots a team can expect in the championship arena.

The statement that duals do not matter is a statement that is explicitly incorrect. They are as meaningful as any other sport's regular season competition .

 

[Lyons212]

Agreed. We've seen far too many National Duals sparsely attended. Why would you want to determine a champion where you could have the 2nd best kid in the country and not have him score any team points assuming he loses to the best kid in the country? Similarly, why should a wrestler who absolutely dominates an inferior opponent only get 6 team points? Throw in the likely weight class maneuvering you'd see increase and the blatant stalling to limit that damage that would also increase, no thanks.

The current format pits the top 33 wrestlers in each weight class against one another with points earned accordingly.

Just think about this past weekend, there was palpable drama each day as the team race seesawed back and forth. There was also underlying drama for the 3rd and 4th place trophies as well as the subplots of Conel, Lock Haven's surprise performance, etc. If it had been a dual meet championship instead, it would have been a foregone conclusion that PSU and tOSU would meet for the championship, with the days preceding filled with beat downs and fans of eliminated teams thinning out along the way. If you want an example of this, look no further than the NCAA basketball tournament. Lots of empty seats on Saturday and Sunday after the round 1 participants were sent packing.

The wrestling leadership needs to accept that this is a niche sport whose fan base is largely made up of former wrestlers and/or friends/family of former wrestlers. The notion that a more traditional team competition confined to 2 hours or less will open doors to a whole new population of fans is just silly. Hopefully they don't screw up the best thing going across the world in this sport.

Wrestling leadership also needs to keep these two reasons in mind and leave the current setup alone:

1. NCAA wrestling championships are sold out and just set an attendance record.
2. Each year, ESPN broadcasts more of the tournament live on one of its channels. If there were not making money, they would not do this.

 

[CJLion]

I think we're agreeing. A teams' record matters when qualifying for the postseason in these sports.

In college wrestling a teams record has no bearing in how a championship is awarded.

We are not agreeing.
How a team's werestlers do during the regular season determines how many qualifying spots a team can expect in the championship arena.

The statement that duals do not matter is a statement that is explicitly incorrect. They are as meaningful as any other sport's regular season competition .

Come on, you don't really believe it matters as much which TEAM wins a dual meet as which team wins a regular season college football game for example. thats absurd.

 

[nitlion6]

Come on, you don't really believe it matters as much which TEAM wins a dual meet as which team wins a regular season college football game for example. thats absurd.

Picking and choosing again.
Is every college basketball game as meaningful as a college football game?

The only thing that makes a a college football regular season game more meaningful than a college regular season basketball game or wrestling dual meet is football has 120 D1 teams competing for 4 post season spots, basketball has what 170 D1 teams competing for 68 post season spots and wrestling has at each weight 70 kids competing for 33 spots.

I imagine you understand all this, you just feel the need to troll the subject a bit. The statement duals do not matter is a statement that is explicitly incorrect and I am finished discussing it.

 

[CJLion]

Picking and choosing again.
Is every college basketball game as meaningful as a college football game?

The only thing that makes a a college football regular season game more meaningful than a college regular season basketball game or wrestling dual meet is football has 120 D1 teams competing for 4 post season spots, basketball has what 170 D1 teams competing for 68 post season spots and wrestling has at each weight 70 kids competing for 33 spots.

I imagine you understand all this, you just feel the need to troll the subject a bit. The statement duals do not matter is a statement that is explicitly incorrect and I am finished discussing it.

They are as meaningful as any other sport's regular season competition is even more explicitly incorrect. You're confusing individual wrestler results vs team results. Teams W/L record is not a factor when determining a TEAM national champion, plain and simple. That doesn't diminish the greatness of college wrestling. Chill.

 

[NoVa Lion]

They are as meaningful as any other sport's regular season competition is even more explicitly incorrect. You're confusing individual wrestler results vs team results. Teams W/L record is not a factor when determining a TEAM national champion, plain and simple. That doesn't diminish the greatness of college wrestling. Chill.

I think you should take your own advice and chill. BTW, your statement " Teams W/L record is not a factor when determining a TEAM national champion, plain and simple" is also true for every other sport. You saying it isn't doesn't make it true no matter how many times you say it.

 

[Lyons212]

I think you should take your own advice and chill. BTW, your statement " Teams W/L record is not a factor when determining a TEAM national champion, plain and simple" is also true for every other sport. You saying it isn't doesn't make it true no matter how many times you say it.

Actually it is not. If you do not have a good regular season record good luck getting into the football, basketball, baseball, volleyball, etc playoffs.

Wrestling is no different from any other individual sport with a team component such as track and field, swimming, gymnastics, fencing and cross country. Your regular season record as a team does not directly matter in determining if you qualify for the playoffs, however it does indirectly matter since it is an indication of a strong team with many individual qualifiers at the playoffs/chamionships. At the playoffs/championship, how those individual athletes perform determines the champion. If the team has a poor regular season, most likely means not many qualifiers for the post season and no team championship.

Not sure why people want to change the wrestling format, the championships are well attended and all sessions are broadcast on ESPN. This year, PSU obviously had the best team, won the NCAA tournament and was the best dual team. Give PSU some points at nationals for winning the dual championship and much of the drama on Saturday does not exist since PSU would have had a cushion going into the finals.

 

[El-Jefe]

Not sure why people want to change the wrestling format, the championships are well attended and all sessions are broadcast on ESPN. This year, PSU obviously had the best team, won the NCAA tournament and was the best dual team. Give PSU some points at nationals for winning the dual championship and much of the drama on Saturday does not exist since PSU would have had a cushion going into the finals.

You answered your own question there. Can't beat 'em? Find another way.

 

[nitlion6]

You answered your own question there. Can't beat 'em? Find another way.

You would think that when proposing a massive change in the way the NCAA crowns a wrestling team champion people could/would/should give an example of the current model screwing the pooch.

 

[Hartzie]

Wow. Pick and choose to make things fit.

Super Bowl. Patriots go 16 - 0, yet the Giants are champions.

World Series - Seattle Mariners win 116 regular season games, yet the Arizona Diamondback were champions.

March Madness Gorgetown ranked number 1 all season enters 1985 championship game with a 35 - 2 record. Villanova with a final record of 25 - 10 is champion.

Stanley Cup last year best records were Washington Capitals (Eastetn Conference) with 118 points and Chicago Blackhawks (Western Conference) with 109 points. Yet the Pens were champions after beating the Nashville Wild in the finals.

On and on. Same exact thing. Regular season games are played and the season is used to prepare for post-season competition and records are used as qualifiers and rankings for the post season play. Nobody who qualifies gets some sort of head start advantage.

Nashville Wild????

 

[Lyons212]

You would think that when proposing a massive change in the way the NCAA crowns a wrestling team champion people could/would/should give an example of the current model screwing the pooch.

They can attempt to change the method for selecting the NCAA champion all they want, at the end of the day, the best team is going to win. PSU won the NCAA tournament as it is currently constituted. PSU also was the best dual meet team and somehow they beat the best team ever assembled in a dual even without Nolf. As we saw in the semi-finals, that would have been a 10 point swing in the dual.

 

[RoarLions1]

The season starts October 10 each year, with the first allowable, countable competition on November 1. During that time, official practice time increases to 20 hrs/week. It's the start of fun. New room (some wrestlers come in, others have departed), with new challenges/ opportunities. Slate's been wiped clean, everyone starts at the same place, hopeful this is their season.

Competition dates, both wrestlers and teams, number 16 during the regular season. Improvement is made, fitness is increased, and every wrestler is trying to win every match, as they know it could determine their fate later in the year. Duals are important. Attendance for teams is as varied as there are teams. Tops are some combination of Iowa, PSU, Minny, Ohio State, and Oklahoma State, as well as a few others (UNI, Iowa St, Cornell have good attendance too). Teams with the most exciting product draw the most fans. That relationship is as old as the hills. Don't B&M about other teams, improve your own.

When the regular season is over, the excitement starts building until the crescendo that is the NCAA Wrestling Championships. Wrestlers battle in conference tourneys to earn auto-qualifying spots and, while not AS IMPORTANT as NCAA's, a Conference Championship. Regular season results set the seeding, so DUALS ARE IMPORTANT.

The NCAA Championship is a crown jewel. Every qualifier has a shot at AA. Last year, 69 schools sent wrestlers, and 30 different teams had an All-American. How cool is that!! It's exciting for fans, and it's popularity is through the roof, AS IS. TV viewership has increased dramatically, and ticket availability (supply/demand from an ECON standpoint) are also evidence of a an awesome competition, AS IS.

Seems pretty solid to me...maybe a tweak here or there, but that's it.

 

[tomsc]

I think much of the initial major push to have a national dual meet champion came when ESPN said they would televise it, if it determined THE national team champion (thus making the March tournament only an individual tournament). There was strong push-back against that, so the current hybrid was proposed. But, I think a lot of initial motivation was to get ESPN revenue for the proposed national dual meet championships. I'm with those who say, "Don't mess with something that isn't broken!"

 

[Lyons212]

I think much of the initial major push to have a national dual meet champion came when ESPN said they would televise it, if it determined THE national team champion (thus making the March tournament only an individual tournament). There was strong push-back against that, so the current hybrid was proposed. But, I think a lot of initial motivation was to get ESPN revenue for the proposed national dual meet championships. I'm with those who say, "Don't mess with something that isn't broken!"

The most recent NCAA championship just set a record for attendance and viewership. ESPN even broadcast a couple of regular season dual meets. Why change the current format. I get some teams are looking for away to beat PSU even if the rules have to be modified to do so, news for them, that won't work either.

 

[a_mshaffer]

you may draw a lot of folks for a #1 vs #2 dual meet... but you will draw more when you have multiple teams competing. That's the state of our sport.
I find it compelling how 18k+ fans are at an event for 3 or 4 days. Yeah, let's mess with that...

 

[nitlion6]

The season starts October 10 each year, with the first allowable, countable competition on November 1. During that time, official practice time increases to 20 hrs/week. It's the start of fun. New room (some wrestlers come in, others have departed), with new challenges/ opportunities. Slate's been wiped clean, everyone starts at the same place, hopeful this is their season.

Competition dates, both wrestlers and teams, number 16 during the regular season. Improvement is made, fitness is increased, and every wrestler is trying to win every match, as they know it could determine their fate later in the year. Duals are important. Attendance for teams is as varied as there are teams. Tops are some combination of Iowa, PSU, Minny, Ohio State, and Oklahoma State, as well as a few others (UNI, Iowa St, Cornell have good attendance too). Teams with the most exciting product draw the most fans. That relationship is as old as the hills. Don't B&M about other teams, improve your own.

When the regular season is over, the excitement starts building until the crescendo that is the NCAA Wrestling Championships. Wrestlers battle in conference tourneys to earn auto-qualifying spots and, while not AS IMPORTANT as NCAA's, a Conference Championship. Regular season results set the seeding, so DUALS ARE IMPORTANT.

The NCAA Championship is a crown jewel. Every qualifier has a shot at AA. Last year, 69 schools sent wrestlers, and 30 different teams had an All-American. How cool is that!! It's exciting for fans, and it's popularity is through the roof, AS IS. TV viewership has increased dramatically, and ticket availability (supply/demand from an ECON standpoint) are also evidence of a an awesome competition, AS IS.

Seems pretty solid to me...maybe a tweak here or there, but that's it.

Not nitpicking but when mentioning NCAA attendance you have to include reconstituted Fresno State. 6 home duals this season with an average home attendance of 4,566.

 

[nitlion6]

you may draw a lot of folks for a #1 vs #2 dual meet... but you will draw more when you have multiple teams competing. That's the state of our sport.
I find it compelling how 18k+ fans are at an event for 3 or 4 days. Yeah, let's mess with that...

Well we do have that NWCA model that shows unless it is held @ Carver we can 3,000 or so.

 

[nitlion6]

Nashville Wild????

Whatever Nashville's mascot name is?

 

[nitlion6]

I think much of the initial major push to have a national dual meet champion came when ESPN said they would televise it, if it determined THE national team champion (thus making the March tournament only an individual tournament). There was strong push-back against that, so the current hybrid was proposed. But, I think a lot of initial motivation was to get ESPN revenue for the proposed national dual meet championships. I'm with those who say, "Don't mess with something that isn't broken!"

The truth to the story is ESPN never approached anybody about additional wrestling events. ESPN and the NCAA have a contract that deals with NCAA championships. If the NCAA were to decide to have a dual championship ESPN is obligated to televise it. The NCAA would receive no additional revenue. So unless someone can propose a model that includes attendance figures similar to the current championships with assurances that the current model's attendance figures would not diminish the NCAA will continue to view this as a non-starter.