Terrific early season dual on regular BTN and BTN2go
Tonight 7pm: 3 Mizzou vs 5 Ohio St, BTN TV
- Thread starter Abro1975
- Start date
Yeah, Manley and Mikus for Mizzou, and Hayes for the season for tOSU. Others??
Still, some quality guys replacing them, Synon at 141 for Mizzou, and Pletcher at 141 for Ohio State. Not sure who's going in place of Miklus.
Still, some quality guys replacing them, Synon at 141 for Mizzou, and Pletcher at 141 for Ohio State. Not sure who's going in place of Miklus.
Mayes is now out per TheMat so there goes Micah's test. Sounds like McGhee I may be out as well
Unitl they make duals worth something..this sort of thing is going to continue to happen and the sport will eventually keep losing interest.
a kid stubs his toe and the coach holds him out. Why chance further injury/ranking when the dual means absolutely nothing because only thing that counts is March.
a kid stubs his toe and the coach holds him out. Why chance further injury/ranking when the dual means absolutely nothing because only thing that counts is March.
It's tough to say that this or that holdout isn't legit, but hard to argue against the appearance of a trend showing coaches being overcautious with an eye toward March.
I'm sure everyone is banged up a little bit..but just look at any other major sport..the stars are playing thru many injuries..WHY? Because the games mean something, you lose during season, you don't qualify for playoffs. The way NCAA wrestling is set up..might as well just have teams practice from Nov-March and then bring your best to nationals
Not sure this is fair.
We know Hayes (tOSU) is out with a season-ending injury. That's more serious than stubbing a toe.
For Mizzou, McGhee. to my knowledge, hasn't wrestled yet this year. Manley's last bout was 11/13, so he missed an 11/20 dual and a 12/3 open tournament. Miklus was injured 11/20 during a dual meet and injury defaulted at the 1:23 mark...hasn't wrestled since. Mayes has only wrestled twice, and missed a 12/3 open tournament.
Wrestling is a brutal sport, and it doesn't appear any of the 5 above will miss tonight's dual for any reason other than legit ones. Happens. Unfortunately, Missouri has experienced far more than their share already this year.
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Explain Bo Jordan? Apparently he had his 2nd kid so he didn't wrestle all year..wife has kid, a week goes by..Ohio State at CKLV and Jordan goes to some div 3 tournament ? So he could have wrestled some legit guys or go to Div 3 tourney? They chose for him to go to Div 3 tourney.
Just frustrated. Flo does a phenominal job creating interest for the sport..hype up matches and then they don't materialize
I'm not sure why this is a difficult one to understand.
Bo's wife recently had a 2nd kid. We have no idea how the kid is doing, how the wife is doing, etc., and that's fine, as it's none of our business. Lots of fathers take time off to help out after a child is born.
So Bo missed the early tOSU matches apparently due to the pregnancy/birth. He certainly has that option. Last weekend, after not having competed this season, he could have: a) gone to a 2-day tournament in Las Vegas (perhaps the team stayed there 3 days), or b) done a 1-day tournament in Urbana, OH. Considering his family situation, and his not having competed this season, I think he made a wise choice.
As fans, we all want to see the elite matchups. It's good for the sport, and it's fun to watch. However, it seems clear that Bo is under a tougher load than are most student-athletes, and I think he has the right to decide how he handles his various responsibilities. Bo will have enough interesting matches in Dec., Jan., and Feb. to prepare him for B1Gs and NCAAs.
Because I LOVE wrestling and want to see it grow. It's much easier to come up with excuses than it is to actually show up.
I guess my bottom line point is..until duals mean something, you will get more of the same and the trend will continue down
The problem is wrestling is an individual sport where team scores are kept. Duals do mean something, but the individual results mean more. If you want to change that we can do away with NCAAs as we know them and make National Duals the NCAA championship. Personally that is NOT what I want. Plus, I disagree with your bottom line point. I don't think that injured or banged up wrestlers being held out of duals is the problem with D1 wrestling. IMHO the real problem is money. Wrestling is an easy cut for schools trying to balance their budget since there is no equivalent sport for women.
In NJ high schools they have a team dual championships and then a individual championships (not team) and it works awesome. The teams are awarded based on their dual production and then the individuals are on there own to meet their individualy goals Maybe because I'm so used to that, that's what I like. I really only started watching college wrestling a lot since Molinaro came here.
Not that anyone has done this explicitly, but Mizzou doesn't sit guys unless absolutely necessary. Brian Smith is a coach that takes duals pretty seriously, IMO.
This is not that much different from NCAA baskeball or NHL hockey, or a number of other sports. You have to have some level of participation/competition to get to the season ending tournament and then the tournament decides the final position of participants.
My personal opinion is that all (or at least almost all) coaches take duals seriously. The fact that internet posters make accusations about holding kids out to protect seeding, etc. does NOT make it so. JMHO.
Excuses? Maybe you're an insider in both the Missouri and Ohio State programs? I'm not, so I won't judge.
What we have read here, from reliable sources are; an injury so bad the wrestler is missing an entire season, a wrestler under concussion watch (protocol), a new dad -- 2nd child, a wrestler that hasn't hit the mat once yet this season, and 2 others that we know missed recent matches and a tournament.
Forfeits when there's viable alternatives, or holding wrestlers out to protect seeds is one thing, we can probably agree to that. Any suggestion that there's some bogus reason for any of these wrestlers to miss tonight's dual is baseless from everything we've read.
Agree to a point. My problem is what I perceive as "ducking/protecting seed." In NCAA basketball, there's a schedule, you can't not play. Let's say Kentucky is the consensus 4th best team, but they forfeited the 3 games they could have played against the top 3 teams, and forfeited the 2 games they could have played the 7 and 8 seed. Then they win the rest of the games against teams outside top 20, win their conference tourney and get high seed at NCAA's. Yes they deserve to be there, but do you think all those fans would be happy about it? Do you think the TV revenues would be as high is this was a common practice? I don't. Now it's very easy to say "someones banged up" but in other sports, the "banged up guys" will do everything in their power to play against the best teams, in the brightest lights and "rest up" when not needed. I see the opposite in NCAA wrestling..I see guys "resting up" when it's a big match and "playing banged up" when they see it's not so tough.
I actually enjoy watching basketball but comparing the 2 is not at all ideal especially when it comes to injury a basketball player needs to be able to go up and down the court and be able to dunk and make shots a wrestler uses their body a lot more to compete and can get into a lot of crazy positions that may not be ideal depending on the injury
Part of your argument suggests, even states, that "banged up" guys don't go in wrestling. By the time February / March rolls around, even before that, almost every wrestler is banged up, and generally speaking, they all wrestle. I believe "protecting a seed" is rare, unless maybe you're tan 
.
The posted injury rates (by the NCAA) for wrestlers, including concussions, are in line with football, which is #1. We're a close second. It really is a brutal sport, with injuries that do cause many a wrestler to miss some action.
. The posted injury rates (by the NCAA) for wrestlers, including concussions, are in line with football, which is #1. We're a close second. It really is a brutal sport, with injuries that do cause many a wrestler to miss some action.
This is my last post on this subject as I respect you and many on this board and I'm not looking to get into a pissing match..
This is my thoughts in a nutshell. In NCAA basketball and football if there's a big game, the game is advertised and there's a buzz created. Then you sit down, watch the game and you get to watch all the people you were looking forward to watching.
I don't see the same in college wrestling. I would venture to say, more times than not, the major duals have some main guy sitting out for one reason or another. You may be right, that it's just a more injury prone sport and that's why it happens a often as it does, as a fan and especially a casual fan, this doesn't bode well
Sorry, but when you watch a football or bball game you do NOT get to watch ALL of the people you were looking forward to. Injuries happen in those sports and MANY are held out. Anyone who watched PSU football this season knows that. You are just making up a distinction between sports that only exists in your mind and don't seem to be willing to admit that so I'm wondering what your agenda is.
NBA basketball players sit out frequently before the final tournament, hockey probably a little less so. There is probably no sport where all the starters play every game, and we don't even know why. With the seasons getting longer and longer, it is probably wise to rest players along the way. Even the NHL is now giving some off time to teams so players can heal up some from the long grind.
Not a pissing contest at all at least from my stand point. I actually agree with the first half of what you said. As a fan I really wanted to see that 149 match up. I just can't let my fandom take over how I feel about outside factors for a dual. Concussions and injuries in general are nothing to play with so if these guys are really hurt than I take no issue with them being out for a dual. But yes I do see where you're coming from
Couldn't resist even though I said last post...
Very simple agenda..make duals meaningful and IMO you would see the best wrestlers wrestle more often.
In NJ the state team Group Chamionships are held a week before the Individual District Championships which precede the Regions and States in Atlantic City the following 2 weekends. The Team wide championships were only started maybe 8 years ago and now are wildly popular, All 5 levels of team Public School Group championships depending on school enrollment, and 2 Groups for Parochial /Non Public schools. So 7 team champs crowned in total.
Blair Academy does not participate as they are not part of the NJSIAA , they wrestle in the year end National Prep Championships (same as Wyoming Sem ??)).
For town and school pride I think that the Team championships are better, for Individual level the State Finals weekend in Atlantic City might be the best NJ HS sporting event of any sport. They get about 40,000 for the Friday/Saturday /Sunday sessions. They wrestled down to 1 overall champ per weight class , sometimes seeing a kid from a very tiny HS against a kid from a Parochial power like Bergen Catholic (Suriano's HS).
I do wish D1 College had a good team dual tourny, I think it also could become wildly popular. Maybe the Champs from each conference could meet the week before the Nationals.
Blair Academy does not participate as they are not part of the NJSIAA , they wrestle in the year end National Prep Championships (same as Wyoming Sem ??)).
For town and school pride I think that the Team championships are better, for Individual level the State Finals weekend in Atlantic City might be the best NJ HS sporting event of any sport. They get about 40,000 for the Friday/Saturday /Sunday sessions. They wrestled down to 1 overall champ per weight class , sometimes seeing a kid from a very tiny HS against a kid from a Parochial power like Bergen Catholic (Suriano's HS).
I do wish D1 College had a good team dual tourny, I think it also could become wildly popular. Maybe the Champs from each conference could meet the week before the Nationals.
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thanks for the heads up..I really appreciate it, I would have missed this if not for your post
My cable company actually has BTN..Wahoo
Assad doing well so far. Used a lot of energy on his single attempt for no points.
NaTo taking out some anger on Eierman, who evidently has a ways to go.
Serious contrast in body styles but Pletcher doing well against a very tall guy who's good from the top position
Pletcher w 2 nice counter/reshots. So fundamental and no panic.
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