Good win for the pa kid. Solid debut to get the butterflies out.
Tonight 7pm: 3 Mizzou vs 5 Ohio St, BTN TV
- Thread starter Abro1975
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Sorry, didn't mean to imply that other coaches are sitting guys for sinister or otherwise illegitimate reasons...Just that Smith takes duals more seriously than many other coaches. As in he'll even bump guys around just to win a dual that, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't really mean much. I recall him really shuffling 184 through HWT a couple of years ago to give his team a shot to win a dual. I can't remember the opponent or the outcome, but I remember Miklus and Cox were two of the guys shifted (Cox wrestled HWT), and one guy was technically a 174 bumping up to 197. I'm pretty sure the 3rd guy involved was the guy that got DQ'd at Nationals 2 years ago -- name escapes me.
Anyway, my point was that most coaches won't pull every lever to win a dual, but Smith has shown he will. That tells me he is less likely than others to err on the side of caution if a guy is banged up and questionable.
Snyder: "You know what? I think I kind of like this pinning thing. Seems fun."
They better pull Hall's red shirt so we can win it !!!! Remember i said that....
Wouldn't think you should be able to turn someone with Snyder's hold but it was pretty cool - he just willed his way like Zain does it.
Oh, I think we all know your position on that. There won't be any forgetting.
Kollin Moore was the story of the night. Damned impressive performance against Cox. Looks like a top 4 guy @ 197.
lol
I was a non-Buckeye fan that felt that Moore was a tad over hyped. After watching tonight's match, I think his high ranking is justified.
Off, by over a quarter-century. The first NJSIAA Group (Dual) State Championships were held in 1982.
sort of looked like the guy was tapping out - think Snyders locked hands on his cradle was against the man's throat. Once he 'tapped out' snyder pinned him with his hands/arms...
Damn, lol, and I thought it was the hair or hearing that went first. Turns out it's the memory. lol. Actually now that you mentioned that, I was actually at the infamous Delaware Valley vs Jefferson match, which were something like 1 and 2 in the country, and Jefferson won when their big underdog kid in the last match claimed he couldn't continue after a slam to the mat. So he Jefferson gets 6 instead of Del Val getting 6 and this being the last match, and what looked like Delaware Vallley being mythical #1 in NJ and the nation goes to Jefferson. And Jefferson was coached by Rossi who was a P'burg alum. Probably circa 1985.
That was a surprise. Lewis, as usual, showed he's a great rider. But he needed more TDs at the end to get bonus points, and he showed no energy or enthusiasm in going for them.
He was worn out from trying to turn a guy that laid in par terre for the entire 2nd period. Ref needs to start calling stalling there and not stop until Burcher starts moving. Ridiculous.
No doubt Moore was impressive and is gonna be a major stud. However, Cox was in complete control until he got really, really tired before the end of the 2nd period. I get not being in March shape yet but WTF?
Moore did look good. Big picture, body-of-work, is;
Opponent School Match Date From Match Weight W/L By How Action
#1 Cox, J'den #5 Missouri 12/8/2016 Missouri - Ohio State Dual 197 L DEC 6 - 4
#51 Orndorff, Tanner #50 Utah Valley 12/2/2016 Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invite 197 W TF5 20 - 5 3:27
#18 A Smith, Jake #53 West Virginia 12/2/2016 Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invite 197 W DEC 9 - 7
#9 Griego, Corey #21 Oregon State 12/2/2016 Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invite 197 W DEC 11 - 6
#2 Pfarr, Brett #12 Minnesota 12/2/2016 Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invite 197 L MD 15 - 7
#194 DiLulo, Harley #75 Boise State 12/2/2016 Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invite 197 W MD 18 - 7
#57 McLaughlin, Anthony #59 Air Force 12/2/2016 Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invite 197 W DEC 2 - 1
#67 Suglio, Stephen #46 Kent State 11/22/2016 Ohio State - Kent State Dual 197 W TF5 21 - 4 3:11
#183 Kelly, Collin #65 Cleveland State 11/22/2016 Ohio State - Cleveland State Dual 197 W FALL 1:22
#123 Cauley, Sullivan #29 Arizona State 11/19/2016 Ohio State - Arizona State Dual 197 W FALL 1:05
Vidal, Freddy Long Island University-Post 11/13/2016 Journeyman Collegiate Classic 197 W FALL 1:14
#17 Robertson, Ricky #7 Wisconsin 11/13/2016 Journeyman Collegiate Classic 197 W DEC 12 - 11
#81 Rose, Nathanael #56 Buffalo 11/13/2016 Journeyman Collegiate Classic 197 W FALL 4:03
Lefever, Riley Wabash 11/5/2016 Eastern Michigan Open 197 W DEC 11 - 6
#91 Kleimola, Jake #25 Indiana 11/5/2016 Eastern Michigan Open 197 W MD 15 - 7
#13 Severn, Austin #18 Central Michigan 11/5/2016 Eastern Michigan Open 197 W DEC 12 - 6
#79 Pelham, Landon #18 Central Michigan 11/5/2016 Eastern Michigan Open 197 W TF5 21 - 5 4:15
Opponent School Match Date From Match Weight W/L By How Action
#1 Cox, J'den #5 Missouri 12/8/2016 Missouri - Ohio State Dual 197 L DEC 6 - 4
#51 Orndorff, Tanner #50 Utah Valley 12/2/2016 Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invite 197 W TF5 20 - 5 3:27
#18 A Smith, Jake #53 West Virginia 12/2/2016 Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invite 197 W DEC 9 - 7
#9 Griego, Corey #21 Oregon State 12/2/2016 Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invite 197 W DEC 11 - 6
#2 Pfarr, Brett #12 Minnesota 12/2/2016 Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invite 197 L MD 15 - 7
#194 DiLulo, Harley #75 Boise State 12/2/2016 Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invite 197 W MD 18 - 7
#57 McLaughlin, Anthony #59 Air Force 12/2/2016 Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invite 197 W DEC 2 - 1
#67 Suglio, Stephen #46 Kent State 11/22/2016 Ohio State - Kent State Dual 197 W TF5 21 - 4 3:11
#183 Kelly, Collin #65 Cleveland State 11/22/2016 Ohio State - Cleveland State Dual 197 W FALL 1:22
#123 Cauley, Sullivan #29 Arizona State 11/19/2016 Ohio State - Arizona State Dual 197 W FALL 1:05
Vidal, Freddy Long Island University-Post 11/13/2016 Journeyman Collegiate Classic 197 W FALL 1:14
#17 Robertson, Ricky #7 Wisconsin 11/13/2016 Journeyman Collegiate Classic 197 W DEC 12 - 11
#81 Rose, Nathanael #56 Buffalo 11/13/2016 Journeyman Collegiate Classic 197 W FALL 4:03
Lefever, Riley Wabash 11/5/2016 Eastern Michigan Open 197 W DEC 11 - 6
#91 Kleimola, Jake #25 Indiana 11/5/2016 Eastern Michigan Open 197 W MD 15 - 7
#13 Severn, Austin #18 Central Michigan 11/5/2016 Eastern Michigan Open 197 W DEC 12 - 6
#79 Pelham, Landon #18 Central Michigan 11/5/2016 Eastern Michigan Open 197 W TF5 21 - 5 4:15
on Cox v Moore-I wouldn't read all that much into it. I sat in Stillwater last year and watched Cox beat little Marsden 7-3. Seemed Totally disinterested in the match. I have not seen last night's match, but that may be another case of that.
Not trying to say Moore isn't a viable AA candidate, because I think he is. Just not on Cox's level come March.
Not trying to say Moore isn't a viable AA candidate, because I think he is. Just not on Cox's level come March.
There were moments when it looked like Cox was just "meh" about the match - i.e. the one takedown where he loses his headgear, he kind of goes over to get it first instead of working an escape. Methinks he tries to have some fun out there a la Ruth sometimes.
I had Cox behind Zain, Nolf and Snyder as a "lock" for an NCAA title this year and last night's match was one of the reasons why. Sometimes he is disinterested on the mat and I don't think he necessarily will turn it on in March. Maybe yes, maybe no.
That hold of Snyder's can compress against the carotid artery causing almost instant choke out - that was probably why he was tapping. We have a similar Judo/jujutsu move but it's from standing position - extremely effective.
Cox gassed. That's what I saw. All that riding time trying to control and turn Moore worked against him. Doubt he makes that mistake again.
And I'm beginning to lean toward Spykers' thoughts on Marky....I think we're gonna need him.
And I'm beginning to lean toward Spykers' thoughts on Marky....I think we're gonna need him.
I don't think we need Hall, if you want to apply pressure, apply it to Zain, Nolf and Bo. They will more than embrace it.
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You don't win championships by being myopic. Nobody says "Let's try to win without our best people".
Maybe you should present your plan to Cael. For some strange reason, I suspect his plan would win more championships during Hall's time at PSU.
Hmmm. Isn't every coach who redshirts a stud and starts a lesser wrestler or player saying exactly "let's try to win (this year) without our best people"?
I promise you Cael does not think like that. If he is redshirting Mark all the way, it's for Mark and Mark only. Cael is not a "win at all costs" coach, that's Tan man and Smith. Hell, the Brands brothers are not "win at all costs" coaches either.
But...watchem lift the Bulls' shirt after Midlands, wink wink.
I guarantee you if Cael, Casey and Cody while assessing the 2016-2017 big picture were to determine it is improbable we win championship without Mark, but highly likely Mark pushes us over the top - Mark Hall wrestles.
If the perception is they probably win without needing his points, or if for some reason they thought even with him in the line-up it wasn't going to happen this year he isn't going to wrestle.
If the perception is they probably win without needing his points, or if for some reason they thought even with him in the line-up it wasn't going to happen this year he isn't going to wrestle.
And it's not just the banners that hang from rafters to support your thoughts. There is evidence. Zain, Morgan, nico, etc.
This is a message board and debate is great but this "problem" was resolved long ago.
Embrace the process and find something within the grind. Helps the lows not be so low and highs are even higher. Believe I heard that on the golf course a few times.
Incorrect. I'm eager to see what one of our non-redshirting 174s can do this year and am not even close to convinced that it is time to consider other options.
It's December. Let those who are chasing us make the first moves, and we can evaluate the scenery later. Injuries, academics, booze, and girlfriends can strike at any time and change the landscape dramatically. We'd be foolish to talk about pulling shirts before the circumstances are clear. Not to mention the added pressure it puts on 2 guys who already must feel like they are under a microscope, with no room for error.
Hall is getting his work in. He'll be ready if needed, but no one will know what needs to be done with the roster until much later in the season. It's unreasonable to conclude otherwise and, IMO, disrespectful to the guys the coaching staff is currently putting on the mat.
So yeah, our opinions are miles apart.
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