Been discussed on the game thread, I'm sure, but I wasn't following the thread until the end. First, on our interception that was overturned, I still haven't seen the ball hit the ground. Thought that was a bad ruling. Second, McSorley's "fumble". I thought his arm was moving forward with control of the ball, despite what the announcing crew said. Can't believe that wasn't even reviewed. Am I wrong on these?
Two Official Calls Question
- Thread starter nits74
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I can't believe that the fumble wasn't reviewed, although they probably would have upheld it on some subjective judgment that the ball wobbled at some point.
Nose of the ball makes contact w the turf but there was no evidence it aided the catch. Unreal that the "fumble" wasn't reviewed. Was an incomplete pass.
Whoever they had on the broadcast as an official review commenter was a jackass. He said the ball was moving on McSorely’s hand the whole time before his arm came forward!!! He also said Haley trapped the ball before they even had cleared replays. What a whackadoodle!!
I couldn't argue with either of those calls. What I could argue with was the veritable blizzard of flags that went against PSU in the 2nd half with literally NOTHING called on Iowa. Sure looked to me like O'Neil's crew was very actively trying to help the home team win the game.
This was a return to old boy homer midwestern officiating. I thought maybe we had put it behind us but this crew was definitely out to get Penn State.
This was a return to old boy homer midwestern officiating. I thought maybe we had put it behind us but this crew was definitely out to get Penn State.
Yeah, he was reaching to justify just about anything that went against Penn State. He was very transparent in his bias.
They replayed the interception from several angles. Some angles , imho, may have "implied" the ball hitting the ground, but if there was indisputable video evidence to overturn the call, let me just ask someone to post it because I didn't see it.
McSorley's fumble should have been reviewed, but I could see how the call could be interpreted as a fumble.
To be fair to the officials, considering how close the game was, if they wanted PSU to walk out with a loss, they could have done so. That said, when I saw it was O'Neill's crew officiating, have to admit it made me nervous.
McSorley's fumble should have been reviewed, but I could see how the call could be interpreted as a fumble.
To be fair to the officials, considering how close the game was, if they wanted PSU to walk out with a loss, they could have done so. That said, when I saw it was O'Neill's crew officiating, have to admit it made me nervous.
On review, from the reverse angle, it kinda looked like the point of the ball touched the turf, but really appeared inconclusive. I still say if it would've been Ohio State or Michigan it would've been considered an INT and no review. On the McSorley fumble, it looked to me more like the defender knocked the ball out of McSorley's hand than the ball slipped out while in the throwing motion. I agree that Iowa could've been called more (especially for holding, but that seems to be "Big Ten rules" that allow more holding, especially for teams not named Penn State).
Basically, the officiating seemed generally good on the calls but definitely biased towards calling stuff on PSU. In a way, I was glad that it was done, and that PSU overcame it, and won. Nothing could have shoved it into O'Neill's, Iowa's and the Big Ten's face more.
Basically, the officiating seemed generally good on the calls but definitely biased towards calling stuff on PSU. In a way, I was glad that it was done, and that PSU overcame it, and won. Nothing could have shoved it into O'Neill's, Iowa's and the Big Ten's face more.
The INT ball touched the ground. The last review angle from behind the player showed that. I was OK with that decision.
What I was not OK with was McSorely's pass that was ruled a fumble. The ball was in his hand the entire throwing motion. It didn't slip or wobble and it went forward. How someone can fumble the ball 10 yards forward with a defenders arm striking his pushing it the other way and not be called an incomplete pass is beyond me.
A fumble that was knocked out would have gone backwards or sideways. The ball went forward. Incomplete pass.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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IMO....
The INT shouldn’t have been reversed. At worst there was no evidence the ball hit the ground, at best it never did. Garbage. The fumble was a good call I thought - the Iowa defensive player hit the ball at the back of TM’s throw and he just lost it. There was a holding call on us that was ridiculous and one on them that wasn’t called that was also ridiculous.
Haley was not an INT . .. but could have been upheld. Grant's hands are in front of the ball and not under it. He doesn't grab the side but cradles the ball as it makes contact with the turf. Hell of a play by him to even make that close.
The fumble was a fumble. Should have been reviewed and should have stood.
The PI on Cambell was bullshit.
And Cabinda move was good he brushes the guy but that's a good play.
That crew was terrible and bad both ways.
The fumble was a fumble. Should have been reviewed and should have stood.
The PI on Cambell was bullshit.
And Cabinda move was good he brushes the guy but that's a good play.
That crew was terrible and bad both ways.
Respectfully I disagree with this whole heartedly. Haley’s hands were UNDER the ball. It was called an INT and there was absolutely nothing conclusive about any replay to overturn.
Agree regarding video evidence - the ball could just as easily have been moving while pivoting on Haley's wrist/hand. They showed no replay shot on ABC that definitively demonstrates that ball touched the ground. Even ABC's "rules expert" who said he "thought" it touched the ground admitted to Herbie that there was no definitive video evidence of it "but it's as close as you can get without actually having it". You are correct, by rule the play on the field should stand without definitive video proof the ball hit the ground.
I prefer that the refs get the calls correct, whether they (the calls) be for or against Penn State.
However, it seems to me through the years that too often a close play that is a positive for Penn State is reviewed no matter how obvious it might be on the field. Conversely, a close play that is positive for PSU's opponent is not reviewed.
All Penn Staters want is a fair short at the game without nonsense calls like "spiking the ball in anger." We all understand how tough it is to call some "bang-bang" plays perfectly. It is those never-seen-before type of calls that drive us crazy. I didn't see any such calls last night.
However, it seems to me through the years that too often a close play that is a positive for Penn State is reviewed no matter how obvious it might be on the field. Conversely, a close play that is positive for PSU's opponent is not reviewed.
All Penn Staters want is a fair short at the game without nonsense calls like "spiking the ball in anger." We all understand how tough it is to call some "bang-bang" plays perfectly. It is those never-seen-before type of calls that drive us crazy. I didn't see any such calls last night.
Agree w/ you re: the pick. The dip$h!t official on the broadcast kept saying that the tip was seen to move slightly. So be it, but Grant's hands were clearly cradling underneath the ball the entire time. I.e., the ball was bobbled, but that doesn't mean that it hit the ground. It was a blown call, & a critical one.
I did agree about the Trace fumble. Even though his arm was going forward, I thought the DE had compromised his grip on it before the forward throwing motion. The call looked correct to me.
If they were under the ball you would see ball...hands... turf on both front and back angles. You don't see that. On the back angle zoom in you see turf ball and no hands because they are in front.
Again the call on field could have stood.
And just to add. The near side official.. line judge and side judge great mechanics and work on the Barkley touchdown. Really good
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PSU won, I think both calls were correct The nose of the football hit the ground and moved . If Haley had it in his hands and the side hit while cradleing it would have been different the last angle the nose hit the ground while ball was somewhat loose. Mcsorelys arm may have been going forward but the defense had a piece of the ball its not like it just fell out. In retrospect especially with a win isnt it better this way than having 2 debatable calls being the reason for the win vs a great drive? Barkleys knee wasnt down and that was the correct call. Sorry to say this but shoe on other foot and it had been Iowa winning on an interception like that or no call on fumble and this board would be going crazy .
I watched it several times and flat disagree w/ you. I saw no evidence of turf between hands and ball. Not trying to be an ass, but I'd be very interested to see any camera shot showing otherwise.
Per my earlier post, the ref on the broadcast that kept talking about the tip of the ball bobbling really was missing the boat. A caught ball can bobble if it doesn't hit the ground. It is concerning if they are spending their time in the review booth making judgments based on a perceived canary-in-a-coalmine as opposed too what is clearly apparent
That would defy physics if you saw turf between the ball and hands.
Cataracts are bad.
Look and the back angle zoom in and find Grant' s hands. You don't see them because they are in front of the body of the ball
The offical for ESPN/ABC said it was incomplete. The review said incomplete.
The officials got it right by rule. The FG was also a legal block, as well. He didn't take a step forward, then jump. You can't run up at all, any more.
There were no calls that hurt both teams.
It was a back and forth game, due to PSU being held to 5 first half points, despite the dominance statistically.
Iowa had one play in the first half in PSU territory. It was an impact play, leading to a 7-5 halftime lead.
There are eight B1G games ahead. In 2015, very few teams went undefeated for the regular season.
In 2016, only P.J. Fleck's team was undefeated.
That's College Football.
Congratulations on victory and your 4-0 start. Amani Hooker was inches away from tipping the final play.
Heck of a finish ...
The officials got it right by rule. The FG was also a legal block, as well. He didn't take a step forward, then jump. You can't run up at all, any more.
There were no calls that hurt both teams.
It was a back and forth game, due to PSU being held to 5 first half points, despite the dominance statistically.
Iowa had one play in the first half in PSU territory. It was an impact play, leading to a 7-5 halftime lead.
There are eight B1G games ahead. In 2015, very few teams went undefeated for the regular season.
In 2016, only P.J. Fleck's team was undefeated.
That's College Football.
Congratulations on victory and your 4-0 start. Amani Hooker was inches away from tipping the final play.
Heck of a finish ...
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Oh kinda like this call that wasn’t overturned, eh.
My point would be given final score and PSU wins likely the game of the year in the Big 10. I dont think the interception would have mattered PSU got the ball back on a punt field position maybe but didnt do anything and it hit the ground. The fumble was a fumble The defensive player made a great play But wouldnt you rather have won the way it happened and maybe the calls went against PSU 51%-49% maybe they were that close if polled ? There are no excuses this way and it may well have a much more positive effect on the season moving forward No PSU won on some shaky calls be happy with the win!
lol, fair point, not "between ball and hands", but def no ball on turf. I'll look again, but I don't expect to be overturned
Play was never even reviewed in the booth the feed went out and part of that was someone at Penn State not doing their job.
But one of the worst on field calls ever
I mean I got turf between ball and hands but no everyone likes that lol
Leverage and Leaping
ARTICLE 11. a. No defensive player, in an attempt to gain an advantage, may step, jump or stand on an opponent.
b. It is a foul if a defensive player who runs forward from beyond the neutral zone leaps or hurdles in an obvious attempt to block a field goal or try. It is not a foul if the player was aligned in a stationary position within one yard of the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped.
c. It is a foul if a defensive player who is inside the tackle box tries to block a punt by leaving his feet in an attempt to leap directly over an opponent.
1. It is not a foul if the player tries to block the punt by jumping straight up without attempting to leap over the opponent.
2. It is not a foul if a player attempts to leap through or over the gap between players.
d. No defensive player, in an attempt to block, bat or catch a kick, may:
1. Step, jump or stand on a teammate. 2. Place a hand(s) on a teammate to get leverage for additional height.
3. Be picked up by a teammate, or be elevated, propelled or pushed
It was not a penalty because he leaped trough the center guard gap
O'Neil and crew are nothing compared to Honig and Witvoet in their prime. That was actual bias.
Remember, Honig and Witvoet probably would have called offensive PI, holding, unsportsmanlike conduct, and a sideline infraction on the final play. Then PSU would have had 4th and 55 with no time remaining, and they would have called a false start on that for good measure.
Last night, There was a non-call on PSU when there was blatant pass interference near the goal line. PSU's defender nearly pulled off the Iowa WRs jersey. This came shortly after one of the bad calls against PSU and seemed like a make-up non-call. I think O'Neiln's crew is just inept.
Remember, Honig and Witvoet probably would have called offensive PI, holding, unsportsmanlike conduct, and a sideline infraction on the final play. Then PSU would have had 4th and 55 with no time remaining, and they would have called a false start on that for good measure.
Last night, There was a non-call on PSU when there was blatant pass interference near the goal line. PSU's defender nearly pulled off the Iowa WRs jersey. This came shortly after one of the bad calls against PSU and seemed like a make-up non-call. I think O'Neiln's crew is just inept.
When the score was 8-7 and it appeared PSU was starting to gain some momentum, I turned to my dad and said "time for the Big Ten screw job to begin". Sure enough, an avalanche of questionable calls and non-calls ensued, all to Iowa's benefit. Just the usual bush league officiating from a garbage conference.
I agree to your first paragraph. However, FYI: it was O'Neill himself who told Devon Still, complaining about blatant holds throughout the game, "Shut up. You're lucky to even be playing." It was also O'Neill himself who flagged Matt McGloin 15 yards for "spiking the ball in anger" on a play where a OL moved before the snap. I hardly consider either of these incidents to be chalked up to "ineptness" alone.
If memory serves, it was the official B1G video feed that was conveniently unavailable, and the B1G had a rule that only the official feed could be used for review. Sorry PSU, no video feed available. Certainly not the one on the Jumbotron where everyone could see the ball skipping off the turf, which the scoreboard operator played over and over again much to the chagrin of the refs.
The conference quietly changed that rule after the season, along with an edict to not show plays being reviewed on the stadium screen.
I fully expect we will see this same bunch of turds for the PSU-OSU and PSU-Skunkbear games.
I doubt we get O'Neill in back-to-back weeks, but he will surely be there for 1 of those 2.
yes the rule was changed because of the issue. Yes you are correct that video feed was down to the booth. But it was a failure and Penn State, and their ops had a hand in that. and this is from someone in the replay booth.
it was an egregious mistake and the white hat and O'Neil could have over ruled and made the correct call. He also could announced an entire explanation but he chose not to. the same goes for the delay of game. By rule not reviewable. But anything that is egregious is. 3.5 seconds over an allowed limit is egregious. it could have been reviewed.
Also expect Jerry McGinn and his crew for one of those games Hopefully both, one of if not the best white hat in the game but doesn't play politics so he is relegated come bowl season. My pick is Michigan, I then think Daniel Capron gets Ohio State
Just watched the game again. There were a number of blatant holds* by Iowa that weren't called
*blatant hold is one where the jersey is grabbed a pulled more than 10 inches from the player's body.
Is the nose of the ball on Haley's right wrist and not the ground? Either way, not nearly enough to overturn that call.
I believe the officials got both calls correct, but am surprised there was no review on the fumble.
I disagree with those who said we were screwed by the refs last night. But that game vs. OSU was highway robbery. That wasn't just missing a few calls. That was blatant! Replay wasn't working, not allowed to look at TV or scoreboard, etc. Remember the FG kicked 4 seconds after time expired? The leaping call? I'm normally not a conspiracy person but what else can you call that?
