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Re: Confused here Howie.....how did the loss of business
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/01/21/christian-bakery-guilty-violating-civil-rights-lesbian-couple/
Check out this article about an Oregon bakery owned by Christians pressured into closing. Steep state fines, daily picketing, and even death threats to the family's children. As if they couldn't find another baker in town to bake their cake.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/01/21/christian-bakery-guilty-violating-civil-rights-lesbian-couple/
Re: Are there laws allowing people/companies
You can't really force a company out of business. There's nothing a group of people can do except refuse to buy a product and encourage other people to do the same. It's on the business to appeal to their consumers. If they want to make a business "Christian" and cater only to certain people, then they risk alienating some of their clientele. The fact that they're a Christian-run business does not entitle them to success. They're not targets, they just need to find a different job that aligns with their faith.
You can't really force a company out of business. There's nothing a group of people can do except refuse to buy a product and encourage other people to do the same. It's on the business to appeal to their consumers. If they want to make a business "Christian" and cater only to certain people, then they risk alienating some of their clientele. The fact that they're a Christian-run business does not entitle them to success. They're not targets, they just need to find a different job that aligns with their faith.
Re: Confused here Howie.....how did the loss of business
Boo hoo. Cry me a river. They can move to Indiana and sell cakes to their fellow bigots.
I feel about as sorry for them as I would for a bakery that refused to bake a cake for a mixed-race couple (something that also used to be illegal).
Boo hoo. Cry me a river. They can move to Indiana and sell cakes to their fellow bigots.
Re: Are there laws allowing people/companies
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/01/21/christian-bakery-guilty-violating-civil-rights-lesbian-couple/
Nonsense. They most certainly are targets. Especially when someone has the option to choose another supplier. What, there was only one baker who could provide a lesbian couple a cake in Oregon? That business was singled out and yes you can put so much pressure on a business that you effectively force it to shut down. See link.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/01/21/christian-bakery-guilty-violating-civil-rights-lesbian-couple/
Re: Confused here Howie.....how did the loss of business
Oh and I guess you're okay with death threats to the children. As I said, the "tolerant" aren't very.
This post was edited on 4/1 4:33 PM by Howie'81
And your comment seems to be bigoted against anyone who stands by a religious belief. You don't get to decide what's right and wrong. And if you give me that old saw that everything is relative, well then nobody's wrong so you shouldn't have anything against this bakery.
Oh and I guess you're okay with death threats to the children. As I said, the "tolerant" aren't very.
This post was edited on 4/1 4:33 PM by Howie'81
Read the Fox article. A follow-on question, what if these
lesbians visited 6 (arbitrary #) bakeries and all said no? Then what? Howie, I was born and raised in the segregrated South. I saw this stuff happen based on color so much. It's a very STEEP slope you're defending and one that I hoped we had leveled. Please re-think your position.
lesbians visited 6 (arbitrary #) bakeries and all said no? Then what? Howie, I was born and raised in the segregrated South. I saw this stuff happen based on color so much. It's a very STEEP slope you're defending and one that I hoped we had leveled. Please re-think your position.
Re: Confused here Howie.....how did the loss of business
I feel pretty comfortable condemning people who discriminate against their fellow Americans. I'm not going to apologize for it any more than I would apologize for condemning the KKK.
PS. Jesus broke bread with thieves and whores. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have had a problem selling a cake to a pair of lesbians. So don't give me your "religious belief" crap.
You know what?
I feel pretty comfortable condemning people who discriminate against their fellow Americans. I'm not going to apologize for it any more than I would apologize for condemning the KKK.
PS. Jesus broke bread with thieves and whores. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have had a problem selling a cake to a pair of lesbians. So don't give me your "religious belief" crap.
Re: Are there laws allowing people/companies
And the other side is that they're unfairly targeting homosexuals. They probably shouldn't be baking cakes for people who are entering a second marriage either, but I doubt they bother to ask people about that.
Every baker is required to follow the same rules. There aren't religious exceptions to how people do business. They're free to practice their religion, but they're also required to follow the law. If everyone is permitted to claim an exemption to following fair business practices then you absolutely run the risk of widespread discrimination, in which everyone is permitted to selectively exclude a group of people (like, say, black people) just because they don't feel like giving them service. That's why we have protected classes, because businesses have done that for years historically. They're not being prevented from practicing Christianity, they're being prevented from running a business in a way that is unfair to other people. They're being denied the right to run a bakery with unfair business practices, not the right to be Christians.
Keep in mind, when they opened the bakery they knew what they were doing and what was permitted under the law. And they know that to continue running their bakery in that way they'll face penalties. That might seem unfair, but the same penalties will apply to an atheist or Muslim baker for refusing to serve a Christian customer, or a Jewish baker refusing to serve an immigrant customer, or a White baker refusing service for a Black customer. They're given the exact same protections under the law, but they're expected to follow the same rules.
And the other side is that they're unfairly targeting homosexuals. They probably shouldn't be baking cakes for people who are entering a second marriage either, but I doubt they bother to ask people about that.
Every baker is required to follow the same rules. There aren't religious exceptions to how people do business. They're free to practice their religion, but they're also required to follow the law. If everyone is permitted to claim an exemption to following fair business practices then you absolutely run the risk of widespread discrimination, in which everyone is permitted to selectively exclude a group of people (like, say, black people) just because they don't feel like giving them service. That's why we have protected classes, because businesses have done that for years historically. They're not being prevented from practicing Christianity, they're being prevented from running a business in a way that is unfair to other people. They're being denied the right to run a bakery with unfair business practices, not the right to be Christians.
Keep in mind, when they opened the bakery they knew what they were doing and what was permitted under the law. And they know that to continue running their bakery in that way they'll face penalties. That might seem unfair, but the same penalties will apply to an atheist or Muslim baker for refusing to serve a Christian customer, or a Jewish baker refusing to serve an immigrant customer, or a White baker refusing service for a Black customer. They're given the exact same protections under the law, but they're expected to follow the same rules.
