UFO Evidence that demands a verdict ...

[83wuzme]

What would an alien life form have to gain, if communication were possible, by holding a press conference? Do we feel compelled to communicate with an ant mound when we discover one? If the mound is not in our yard or does not pose a threat we tend to let it go undisturbed. So it is.

I do think we have some alien materials, though anything biological seems less certain. Alleged landing and/or crash sites tend to draw the military/government rather quickly. Many are at military installations themselves, which begs the question -- if false, what would be the incentive to fabricate such incidents?

My guess is that we don't have the means to re-engineer anything. By coincidence the collection of "alien material" was discussed on Tucker Carlson just last night. And from what was reported on that program, military sightings are on the rise. This makes sense, since the military is charged with surveillance, and our capabilities have improved.

There is really no incentive for government to tell the public about any of this. I think in part because it just raises more questions than it answers. Governments like societal order and military superiority, whether communist or "free." Order and superiority are better served by keeping a lid on this and not sharing anything that might be learned. That is why the first two videos are baffling to me. It makes me wonder if there has been a change in policy, and if so, why?

The difficulty with recovered materials evidence is that it quite possibly would contain biological contamination in the form of microbes, or perhaps even extraterrestrial DNA ( if extraterrestrial life makes use of DNA ). Think of the isolation precautions NASA used on the astronauts when they returned from the Moon. Extraterrestrial microbes would encounter an entire planet of life composed of what the infectious disease people call “ immunologically naive “ organisms. The risk would be two - way, however. H.G. Well’s “ War of the Worlds “ illustrated this.
Because we aren’t seeing evidence of extraterrestrial biological contamination, many people discount the idea that we are being visited, and it’s not an unreasonable assumption. It might be possible that the visitors would recognize this and somehow prevent themselves from contaminating our planet while protecting themselves from Earth’s microbes in the process, but this again makes visitation more improbable.
The only way I can see getting around this problem would be if the visitors were actually from Earth, but a different time than ours or something like a parallel universe. Pretty long odds.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

The difficulty with recovered materials evidence is that it quite possibly would contain biological contamination in the form of microbes, or perhaps even extraterrestrial DNA ( if extraterrestrial life makes use of DNA ). Think of the isolation precautions NASA used on the astronauts when they returned from the Moon. Extraterrestrial microbes would encounter an entire planet of life composed of what the infectious disease people call “ immunologically naive “ organisms. The risk would be two - way, however. H.G. Well’s “ War of the Worlds “ illustrated this.
Because we aren’t seeing evidence of extraterrestrial biological contamination, many people discount the idea that we are being visited, and it’s not an unreasonable assumption. It might be possible that the visitors would recognize this and somehow prevent themselves from contaminating our planet while protecting themselves from Earth’s microbes in the process, but this again makes visitation more improbable.
The only way I can see getting around this problem would be if the visitors were actually from Earth, but a different time than ours or something like a parallel universe. Pretty long odds.

I don't think the microbe question affects the odds appreciably at all. If the technology can deal with gravity and the speeds that have been observed, then it's likely advanced enough to have a solution for microbe decontamination.

If alien DNA had been recovered, would that discovery be made public by the same people that are charged with preserving national security and defense secrets? I doubt it. How would they benefit from such disclosure? How do you keep the technology secret but not the creators of that technology?

As for an earthly origin of "aliens," isn't it true that most of our planet remains unexplored? Many of these craft, quite probably Tic Tac in fact, have been seen both entering and departing the sea. And there is the question of Antartica for those who think reports from crews transporting scientists might be more than just folklore.

It's not unreasonable to think that the surface of the earth was at times uninhabitable, and that highly intelligent life needed to move below the surface or to the sea for survival. As another poster noted, there are structures on the earth that suggest ancient life was in some ways more advanced.

This topic affords plenty of areas for speculation. But to me, evidence in the public domain points firmly to the existence of large, intelligently controlled, metallic objects that are not manmade. A lot of people, perhaps most, are uncomfortable with the implications, and hence react in ways that are not constructive.

 

[poker1]

I don't think the microbe question affects the odds appreciably at all. If the technology can deal with gravity and the speeds that have been observed, then it's likely advanced enough to have a solution for microbe decontamination.

If alien DNA had been recovered, would that discovery be made public by the same people that are charged with preserving national security and defense secrets? I doubt it. How would they benefit from such disclosure? How do you keep the technology secret but not the creators of that technology?

As for an earthly origin of "aliens," isn't it true that most of our planet remains unexplored? Many of these craft, quite probably Tic Tac in fact, have been seen both entering and departing the sea. And there is the question of Antartica for those who think reports from crews transporting scientists might be more than just folklore.

It's not unreasonable to think that the surface of the earth was at times uninhabitable, and that highly intelligent life needed to move below the surface or to the sea for survival. As another poster noted, there are structures on the earth that suggest ancient life was in some ways more advanced.

This topic affords plenty of areas for speculation. But to me, evidence in the public domain points firmly to the existence of large, intelligently controlled, metallic objects that are not manmade. A lot of people, perhaps most, are uncomfortable with the implications, and hence react in ways that are not constructive.

There are many things we don't understand about the universe and earthly phenomenon, even of the most mundane type. Our eyes and methods of observation are quite limited. Visitation from other worlds is just one possible explanation among an almost infinite number, but it is one that can be used to get attention.

 

[83wuzme]

I don't think the microbe question affects the odds appreciably at all. If the technology can deal with gravity and the speeds that have been observed, then it's likely advanced enough to have a solution for microbe decontamination.

If alien DNA had been recovered, would that discovery be made public by the same people that are charged with preserving national security and defense secrets? I doubt it. How would they benefit from such disclosure? How do you keep the technology secret but not the creators of that technology?

As for an earthly origin of "aliens," isn't it true that most of our planet remains unexplored? Many of these craft, quite probably Tic Tac in fact, have been seen both entering and departing the sea. And there is the question of Antartica for those who think reports from crews transporting scientists might be more than just folklore.

It's not unreasonable to think that the surface of the earth was at times uninhabitable, and that highly intelligent life needed to move below the surface or to the sea for survival. As another poster noted, there are structures on the earth that suggest ancient life was in some ways more advanced.

This topic affords plenty of areas for speculation. But to me, evidence in the public domain points firmly to the existence of large, intelligently controlled, metallic objects that are not manmade. A lot of people, perhaps most, are uncomfortable with the implications, and hence react in ways that are not constructive.

With my background, I don’t see the microbe problem as something explainable by the invocation of godlike technological capability. Life is stubborn.
I am sure the US government knows some stuff the public doesn’t know about this because of the lengths that some people had to go through to make some of these incidents public. Does a shadowy group within the government have crashed vehicles and bodies ? Despite some alleged whistleblowers, nothing concrete says they do.
But there is definitely some weirdness about the apparent government - sanctioned release of the recent videos. The Lou Elizondo guy who has showed up on various media outlets and the revelation of the government UFO program adds another layer of weirdness to it. Elizondo and of some of the other former US Intel and military people, are connected to Blink 182 rocker Tom DeLong’s “ To The Stars Academy “, which looks like a complete farce. Hard to figure out why people would want to connect themselves to it if they are legit.

 

[j4golf]

Well, I classify UFO’s in the same category as Bigfoot and until they announce themselves, I’m suspicious of their existence. I do believe that live exists elsewhere but just not able to visit.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

.....But there is definitely some weirdness about the apparent government - sanctioned release of the recent videos. Elizondo and of some of the other former US Intel and military people, are connected to Blink 182 rocker Tom DeLong’s “ To The Stars Academy “, which looks like a complete farce. Hard to figure out why people would want to connect themselves to it if they are legit.

Could it be that the "weirdness" is an indication that the original leak, in whatever form, was not actually sanctioned?

Commander Fravor's interview comes across in a rather casual tone. No one in this thread seems alarmed. Few are pressing for more from the government. It isn't important to most Americans. I'd say mission accomplished.

 

[83wuzme]

The thing we are talking about is AATIP, a program that is tasked with assessing and identifying aerial threats that was made public in all of the major media about 18 months ago. It was probably the closest thing to an admission by the government that UFO’s are continuing to be studied. Luis Elizondo was the guy in charge.
It was a small program, only about $20 million dollars annually.
It was a bit of a surprise, because prior to that, the official word was that this all ended with Project Blue Book.

 

[KnightSlayer]

Well, explain then. Let's be rational. How can you attribute all of this to flaws in human perception when a lot of it is photographic? The only logical explanation is that you think the evidence is fabricated. But there are a lot of cases, the Tic Tac for example, where there is no motive for fabrication that is rational.

The tic tac was put in there by russian hackers.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

The thing we are talking about is AATIP, a program that is tasked with assessing and identifying aerial threats that was made public in all of the major media about 18 months ago. It was probably the closest thing to an admission by the government that UFO’s are continuing to be studied. Luis Elizondo was the guy in charge.
It was a small program, only about $20 million dollars annually.
It was a bit of a surprise, because prior to that, the official word was that this all ended with Project Blue Book.

According to this article, the videos did not necessarily originate from AATIP....

First of all, Harris maintains the Pentagon isn’t the source of the videos. “The official who is authorized to release this video on behalf of DOD did not approve the release of this video,” she says. She’s adamant: “I stand firm that we did not release those videos.”​

https://www.wired.com/story/what-is-up-with-those-pentagon-ufo-videos/

The only significant things about AATIP are:

1. The government decided not to use the word UFO, possibly so that the program could be thought to cover adversarial terrestrial craft.
2. It acknowledges legitimate funding, though one would have to have their head in the sand to believe that the government hasn't had resources on this since Blue Book.

If not marked "classified," then it's easy to see how this material could become unofficially leaked by someone who wants to profit or become famous from it. This whole thing could be just a matter of carelessness (putting data on a classified server, but not marking individual files). It suggests that there are large volumes of this kind of data.

 

[83wuzme]

According to this article, the videos did not necessarily originate from AATIP....

First of all, Harris maintains the Pentagon isn’t the source of the videos. “The official who is authorized to release this video on behalf of DOD did not approve the release of this video,” she says. She’s adamant: “I stand firm that we did not release those videos.”​

https://www.wired.com/story/what-is-up-with-those-pentagon-ufo-videos/

The only significant things about AATIP are:

1. The government decided not to use the word UFO, possibly so that the program could be thought to cover adversarial terrestrial craft.
2. It acknowledges legitimate funding, though one would have to have their head in the sand to believe that the government hasn't had resources on this since Blue Book.

If not marked "classified," then it's easy to see how this material could become unofficially leaked by someone who wants to profit or become famous from it. This whole thing could be just a matter of carelessness (putting data on a classified server, but not marking individual files). It suggests that there are large volumes of this kind of data.

I took the time to watch an Elizondo presentation to an audience. He maintained that the three recent videos were not leaked. He comes across as very earnest. I am not sure it is for real, especially when he brings up To The Stars Academy. It would not surprise a lot of people if TTSA became the subject of some sort of fraud or financial malfeasance investigation at some point.
The subtext of his talk seemed to be the national security aspects of UAP’s ( unexplained aerial phenomenon ). It is almost as if he is saying the DOD wants to enlist the public to figure out the who, what, how and why of UAP’s. You have to ask if this is for real or some sort of sales pitch ?

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

I took the time to watch an Elizondo presentation to an audience. He maintained that the three recent videos were not leaked. He comes across as very earnest. I am not sure it is for real, especially when he brings up To The Stars Academy. It would not surprise a lot of people if TTSA became the subject of some sort of fraud or financial malfeasance investigation at some point.
The subtext of his talk seemed to be the national security aspects of UAP’s ( unexplained aerial phenomenon ). It is almost as if he is saying the DOD wants to enlist the public to figure out the who, what, how and why of UAP’s. You have to ask if this is for real or some sort of sales pitch ?

I'm assuming the presentation you watched is this one....

https://dpo.tothestarsacademy.com/b...history-of-aatip-and-current-state-of-affairs

I'm not buying Elizondo's claim that the videos were released, by whatever means, to engage the public for the benefit of the task. It would not have been done this way.

I do buy the idea that Elizondo, whatever his DOD role, grew frustrated when the program fizzled, then decided to use the videos to create an associated career in the private sector. He notes frustration in dealing with close-minded people within DOD who did not want progress, eluding to bias associated with established belief systems.

 

[83wuzme]

Yeah, that’s the one.

 

[Zenophile]

Germane to this topic, one of ufology's greatest advocates has been lost. RIP Stanton Friedman.

 

[Zenophile]

For those who are interested, Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation will air May 31st on the History Channel, previews for which can be viewed at this link.

 

[Zenophile]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, if you're at all invested in this thread but not watching Unidentified on History, then you're missing the point.

 

[Howie'81]

UFOs with real aliens on them must be real. It's the only thing that explains MackDaddy.

 

[MJG-90]

but when considering how far away potentially inhabitable planets are, and the light years of travel required to reach any of them, I can't imagine any realistic possibility of UFOs....

Can anyone answer the question "when did the universe begin to exist?" And if you can answer that, what happened 20 minutes before that? And 20 minutes before that? Did time have a starting point? If you go back in time, you cannot ever reach a definitive starting point. So there are plenty of things about time, and hence long distance travel, that we humans can't fully understand at this stage of our existence. There might very well be "doors" somewhere in the universe that allow travel between time and space. None of us will likely ever know these answers. Unless some UFO lands here and fills us in.

 

[Howie'81]

Can anyone answer the question "when did the universe begin to exist?" And if you can answer that, what happened 20 minutes before that? And 20 minutes before that? Did time have a starting point? If you go back in time, you cannot ever reach a definitive starting point. So there are plenty of things about time, and hence long distance travel, that we humans can't fully understand at this stage of our existence. There might very well be "doors" somewhere in the universe that allow travel between time and space. None of us will likely ever know these answers. Unless some UFO lands here and fills us in.

Time itself is a mystery. No less than St. Augustine mused on this mystery in his classic work "Confessions."

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

I mentioned the Westall incident earlier in this thread and since then came across this video (below) of witness testimony taken at the time of the 50 year anniversary. I consider this strong evidence by virtue of the number of witnesses, first hand accounts, clarity of the time of day, and government reaction, both in the air and on the ground.

Some may say it's not "evidence" and that they still don't believe that extraterrestrial aircraft are real, but those same people probably have other beliefs that are supported by far weaker evidence. Here we have first hand accounts on video.

I will also add that these craft may not be ET, but are obviously that of more advanced beings that may or may not have origins on this planet.

 

[KnightSlayer]

I mentioned the Westall incident earlier in this thread and since then came across this video (below) of witness testimony taken at the time of the 50 year anniversary. I consider this strong evidence by virtue of the number of witnesses, first hand accounts, clarity of the time of day, and government reaction, both in the air and on the ground.

Some may say it's not "evidence" and that they still don't believe that extraterrestrial aircraft are real, but those same people probably have other beliefs that are supported by far weaker evidence. Here we have first hand accounts on video.

I will also add that these craft may not be ET, but are obviously that of more advanced beings that may or may not have origins on this planet.

View embedded media

Believing in ETs and having $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Believing in ETs and having $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee.

So what exactly are you implying by this? I don't drink coffee.

 

[KnightSlayer]

So what exactly are you implying by this? I don't drink coffee.

Believing in ETs is worthless. Don't let that stop you. People believe in all kinds of worthless stuff. As long as you're not hurting anyone and you enjoy it, go for it.

 

[Zenophile]

Acknowledging the reality of unexplained aerial phenomena≠Believing that ET is visiting

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Believing in ETs is worthless. Don't let that stop you. People believe in all kinds of worthless stuff. As long as you're not hurting anyone and you enjoy it, go for it.

Great. Don't look. Don't discuss. Don't think. That which we cannot understand, or that conflicts with the status quo, is either worthless or does not exist. The earth is flat.

 

[KnightSlayer]

Great. Don't look. Don't discuss. Don't think. That which we cannot understand, or that conflicts with the status quo, is either worthless or does not exist. The earth is flat.

Never said any of what you typed. I'm more than happy to look, discuss, think etc. but, when you go from that to; "I believe in ETs" you have moved on from a place of research and thinking to, I believe land. I'm much more comfortable with, I don't know than, I believe.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Never said any of what you typed. I'm more than happy to look, discuss, think etc. but, when you go from that to; "I believe in ETs" you have moved on from a place of research and thinking to, I believe land. I'm much more comfortable with, I don't know than, I believe.

"Believe land?" Not really.

1. These craft were built by some sort of intelligent life form.
2. Human technologies have not advanced to the point of producing craft that can behave and move in ways that have been described and recorded. Not today, and certainly not 70+ years ago.

I would say "believe land" is to accept that one or both of the above are false.

It is possible that the builders and operators of these craft are not ETs, but then we have to accept that -- whether human or not -- they have been hiding somewhere on the planet, within the planet, or beneath the sea. Does that idea seem more plausible?

 

[L.A.Lion]

Hmmmm . . . whatever is that those nervous California loonies fired some 1400 12.8lb. anti-aircraft shells at but could not bring down, despite multiple direct hits? Was it the most impervious weather balloon in history? Sounds like a reasonable explanation to me.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Hmmmm . . . whatever is that those nervous California loonies fired some 1400 12.8lb. anti-aircraft shells at but could not bring down, despite multiple direct hits? Was it the most impervious weather balloon in history? Sounds like a reasonable explanation to me.

Nice addition to this thread. We often think of Roswell (post nuclear bomb) as the start of UFO incidents but that isn't true. Here is a link to a radio broadcast report of the LA incident. Indeed the preceding incidents may have led to finding a way to bring down such craft (through electromagnetism at Roswell, if one accepts the testimony of Lt. Col. Richard French of the Air Force).



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/roswell-ufo-crash_n_1715663

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

With the History Channel series "Unidentified" the UFO issue has gained some mainstream media attention of late. Even Donald Trump is now in the mix (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-doesnt-particularly-believe-them/1465077001/).

So I thought I'd bring this thread up to date with some material being circulated lately within the UFO community .....

Many do not believe that ET UFOs exist for lack of physical evidence, but there are some documents circulating that, if authentic, strongly suggests that such physical evidence does exist and is in the hands of black budget contractors trying to do "reverse engineering." What is suggested by the "Wilson Leak" is that our government has lost control of the issue. Elected officials, even the Pentagon, purportedly do not have a need to know....

https://richarddolanmembers.com/art...chard-dolan-analyzes-the-admiral-wilson-leak/

I respect Dolan's UFO research and perspective. On that subject, in my view, he does not seem to get carried away. I like that he voices his opinion, but always leaves open that the opinion could change with new evidence. He keeps an open mind.

Regarding the "Wilson Leak," Dolan now speculates that they were procured through the files of former Apollo 14 astronaut Ed Mitchell, now deceased. Mitchell was a well known advocate for UFO disclosure, but never claimed to be a first hand witness.

For the record, I am not currently a "Richard Dolan Member." Some of his views are, to me, over the top. For example, I do not understand Dolan's belief that 911 was some kind of conspiracy orchestrated by our own government. I feel that, as a result, he loses credibility with people in Ufology.

Dolan's acceptance of "remote viewing" is another rough spot with me. I can't say that this is impossible, as I think there is much that we do not understand about consciousness and (perhaps) mental telepathy, but I have not seen evidence of the claims. If real this would be the most important discovery in human history. Dolan's wife Tracey claims to be a "professionally trained remote viewer," whatever that is. Looking at Tracy, I can see why Dolan would be open to the idea. Whatever you say honey.

Dr. Steven Greer is another Ufologist peripheral to the Admiral Wilson Leak. I believe that, at the time (1990s) Greer was considered a respectable researcher. By 2001 he did much to bring the UFO topic into the mainstream. Unfortunately, (to me) he has been corrupted by the opportunity to earn a living in Ufology (rather than medicine). This has led to the so-called "CE5" idea wherein Greer-led groups meet in the wilderness and contact aliens through meditation (for a fee). There is even pre-event "training." Indeed some of what Greer calls "contact" is nothing more than various optical anomalies and illusions. Whether any are ET is in extreme doubt. Greer makes all sorts of unsupported statements. I think he has mastered the art of exaggeration and now profits from the gullible.

Here is a link to Greer's most significant contribution to Ufology -- the 2001 National Press Club testimonies....

()

I'll close this post by commenting on why we do not have physical evidence in the public domain. Simply put, the military immediately comes in, secures the area, and confiscates anything that has fallen from space. Once such event occurred in Kecksburg in 1965 (known as "Pennsylvania's Roswell") ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kecksburg_UFO_incident

It is interesting that government records of such incidents seem to get "lost." If you watched the History Channel "Unidentified" series you'll know that this is what happened to the radar records of the USS Princeton for the Nimitz incident. I doubt very much whether the Kecksburg "Acorn UFO" got lost, though current government officials probably have no idea which secret black budget compartment has possession of the object.

 

[83wuzme]

With the History Channel series "Unidentified" the UFO issue has gained some mainstream media attention of late. Even Donald Trump is now in the mix (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-doesnt-particularly-believe-them/1465077001/).

So I thought I'd bring this thread up to date with some material being circulated lately within the UFO community .....

Many do not believe that ET UFOs exist for lack of physical evidence, but there are some documents circulating that, if authentic, strongly suggests that such physical evidence does exist and is in the hands of black budget contractors trying to do "reverse engineering." What is suggested by the "Wilson Leak" is that our government has lost control of the issue. Elected officials, even the Pentagon, purportedly do not have a need to know....

https://richarddolanmembers.com/art...chard-dolan-analyzes-the-admiral-wilson-leak/

I respect Dolan's UFO research and perspective. On that subject, in my view, he does not seem to get carried away. I like that he voices his opinion, but always leaves open that the opinion could change with new evidence. He keeps an open mind.

Regarding the "Wilson Leak," Dolan now speculates that they were procured through the files of former Apollo 14 astronaut Ed Mitchell, now deceased. Mitchell was a well known advocate for UFO disclosure, but never claimed to be a first hand witness.

For the record, I am not currently a "Richard Dolan Member." Some of his views are, to me, over the top. For example, I do not understand Dolan's belief that 911 was some kind of conspiracy orchestrated by our own government. I feel that, as a result, he loses credibility with people in Ufology.

Dolan's acceptance of "remote viewing" is another rough spot with me. I can't say that this is impossible, as I think there is much that we do not understand about consciousness and (perhaps) mental telepathy, but I have not seen evidence of the claims. If real this would be the most important discovery in human history. Dolan's wife Tracey claims to be a "professionally trained remote viewer," whatever that is. Looking at Tracy, I can see why Dolan would be open to the idea. Whatever you say honey.

Dr. Steven Greer is another Ufologist peripheral to the Admiral Wilson Leak. I believe that, at the time (1990s) Greer was considered a respectable researcher. By 2001 he did much to bring the UFO topic into the mainstream. Unfortunately, (to me) he has been corrupted by the opportunity to earn a living in Ufology (rather than medicine). This has led to the so-called "CE5" idea wherein Greer-led groups meet in the wilderness and contact aliens through meditation (for a fee). There is even pre-event "training." Indeed some of what Greer calls "contact" is nothing more than various optical anomalies and illusions. Whether any are ET is in extreme doubt. Greer makes all sorts of unsupported statements. I think he has mastered the art of exaggeration and now profits from the gullible.

Here is a link to Greer's most significant contribution to Ufology -- the 2001 National Press Club testimonies....

(

View embedded media

)

I'll close this post by commenting on why we do not have physical evidence in the public domain. Simply put, the military immediately comes in, secures the area, and confiscates anything that has fallen from space. Once such event occurred in Kecksburg in 1965 (known as "Pennsylvania's Roswell") ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kecksburg_UFO_incident

It is interesting that government records of such incidents seem to get "lost." If you watched the History Channel "Unidentified" series you'll know that this is what happened to the radar records of the USS Princeton for the Nimitz incident. I doubt very much whether the Kecksburg "Acorn UFO" got lost, though current government officials probably have no idea which secret black budget compartment has possession of the object.

When the Kecksburg incident occurred, Eric Walker was at PSU and he had a very high security clearance. Supposedly, he went to the site, but he apparently never talked publicly about what went on there. Whether it was a downed Soviet space probe or something else, there seems to be no official record of it, despite what local witnesses described as a large military presence.

 

[81b&w]

If they'd go to all of the trouble to get here, why wouldn't they stop and say hello?

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

If they'd go to all the trouble to get here, why wouldn't they stop and say hello?

It might not have been much trouble. "Interstellar" is a common first thought when we think of technologies that are far more advanced than our own, but it is entirely possible that a more advanced species evolved within our own solar system.

If we accept the testimony of one of the 2001 National Press Club witnesses (an Air Force technician), we have photographic evidence of a base (perhaps abandoned) on the far side of the moon. Many craft have been documented entering and leaving the sea. We know that the earth was struck with a cataclysm that wiped out the dinosaurs and started an ice age. Higher level beings may have been forced to migrate. Some scientists suggest that humans may need to eventually migrate from the planet.

If we were to visit another planet and found a much lower form of life, would we attempt to "say hello" or study them in some way? Would our first act be to alter their way of life in some way?

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Set your DVR's for the History Channel's UFO Series "Unidentified ..." this Friday, July 5.

Also on July 5 the Fox News Channel show "Tucker Carlson Tonight" will reportedly air an interview with President Trump with respect to the UFO question.

I've seen all but the last of the "Unidentified" series (The Revelation), which premiers later during the evening. So far, unless you want to keep your head in the sand, this is worth viewing. Some episodes recount incidents going back to WW2.

All times Eastern:

8 AM -- The UFO Insiders
9 AM -- Raining UFOs
10 AM -- The Pattern Revealed
11 AM -- UFO Fleet
12 PM -- The Atomic Connection
10:03 PM -- The Revelation

During the afternoon the channel will rerun the "Ancient Aliens" series.

 

[Pocky]

Joe Rogan’s Recent podcast with Bob Lazar is pretty compelling. I’m pretty agnostic re UFO’s, but Lazar seems pretty credible, and if true- that the US has several functional alien craft- his is the story of the century

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Joe Rogan’s Recent podcast with Bob Lazar is pretty compelling. I’m pretty agnostic re UFO’s, but Lazar seems pretty credible, and if true- that the US has several functional alien craft- his is the story of the century

Bob Lazar's story is now available as a documentary on Netflix.

The "Wilson Leak" that I posted above (on June 19) suggests that the Lazar story is not farfetched.

I am looking forward to hearing what Trump has to say (Tucker Carlson this Friday) after he sees some of the evidence. The Wilson Leak documents suggest that these reverse engineering black projects have become so compartmentalized that even our own military has drifted into the "does not have a need to know" classification. So it follows that our Chief Executive, the president, a temporary employee, would also be clueless.

 

[johnmpsu]

A decent book on the subject is by Leslie Kean and titled. "UFOs - Generals, Pilots, and Government officials go on the record." A decent read from all very credible sources. Most of the book consists of writings from the witnesses. From 2010 so a little dated now.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

I am leaning towards the Dark Forest Theory, as put forth in Liu Cixin's The Three Body Problem trilogy, Remembrance of Earth's Past.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Forest
Like hunters in a "dark forest", a civilization can never be certain of an alien civilization's true intentions. The extreme distance between stars creates an insurmountable "chain of suspicion" where any two civilizations cannot communicate well enough to relieve mistrust, making conflict inevitable. Therefore, it is in every civilization's best interest to preemptively strike and destroy any developing civilization before it can become a threat, but without revealing their own location, thus explaining the Fermi paradox.

IOW, if an alien civilization had discovered our planet after human civilization began, they would have wiped us out right away. The logical conclusion, then, is that our civilization has not been discovered by an alien civilization.

 

[Indian rocks rich]

 

[83wuzme]

Joe Rogan’s Recent podcast with Bob Lazar is pretty compelling. I’m pretty agnostic re UFO’s, but Lazar seems pretty credible, and if true- that the US has several functional alien craft- his is the story of the century

Bob Lazar is a phony and Joe Rogan fell for it. Lazar has had help over the years from some friends he had well before he went public with his story about working at an alleged secret facility in the Nevada desert. The essence of a good con is to get other people to tell your story and the best people to do this appear as neutral parties. Bob had a lot of help from John Lear and George Knapp, both of whom he knew well before the UFO business.
Bob’s story is often at serious odds with the verifiable details of his life, and whenever this happens the explanation of the government trying to erase his past is usually invoked. Bob’s claimed educational record is unverifiable, but some of what is verifiable absolutely does not match with his story. You don’t get into schools like MIT and Cal Tech if you finish in the bottom third of you high school class and attend a community college and a correspondence school. The same goes for much of his personal life ; important details that don’t match and significant items omitted.
Then there are the scientific details of his story. Bob talks about Element 115 and how it produces gravity waves that are amplified with energy from a matter - antimatter reactor to produce what amounts to a space time distortion in which the craft travels. On the face of it, this sounds possibly reasonable to explain some things. But Bob says there are two kinds of gravity waves, one that operates over long distances and one that operates at atomic radius distances. The claim of short range gravity waves is certainly not experimentally provable by modern physics, so the only people who would know about it would be those who are reverse engineering UFO’s. If he wants to be believed, Bob should explain how they figured this out. He doesn’t.

 

[BobPSU92]

Germane to this topic, one of ufology's greatest advocates has been lost. RIP Stanton Friedman.

The goddamn Germans got nuthin' to do with it!