I take a different perspective on this than most. All year long I felt that PSU guys were not wrestling to their strengths and getting ready for the big prize at the end. I think in the finals of the Bigs Cenzo intentionally kept his game plan basic both so he could line up the seeding for nationals but also not give away his strategy for NCAA's. I thought he wrestled an uninspired Big 10 final doing enough but not extending himself as if the win was the absolute goal. I also felt this way with Mark Hall through the season as he seemed to put more effort into riding through the season which is the area he wanted to work on. This in my humble opinion is the quality of coaching these guys receive. Placing a guy under a good rider during the season to work on things knowing in the tournament you will not do the same thing. PSU is also fortunate that most duals they can do this because of being the overwhelming favorite. I could be way off but the impression I got from Bigs to NCAA's.
Vincenzo
- Thread starter Ja1339
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On a side note: If you watch the ESPN app of the reply... they have the camera on 'Cenzo's parents. His mom cracks me up. Most of the time she can not even watch the match
She wasn't the only one who couldn't watch the match... halfway thru the second period I decided was a good time to load the dishwasher!
(but could still hear JB and see the screen if I needed to via the reflection in a wall mirror.)
The best part is that some people (even here) were writing off Joseph during his redshirt year.
I think it comes down to Imar seeing Cenzo get thrown to his back multiple times late in the season, and he figured he could do that as well
Massa is good but he doesn’t match up with Cenzo and that incredible strength. No one does at that weight. Cenzo is just so calm and confident almost looking like he’s baiting his opponent to try something so he can respond. And when he gets you his strength is unmatched. He just looks like he is enjoying the cat and mouse game with his opponents. He gets caught sometimes but he enjoys the challenge.
The Fab Five are so good and so different in style. That’s a reflection of how the coaches coach them to their strengths and best attributes. They don’t force a style on them allowing them to express their own and exploit it. Retherford is just a steam roller, always moving with incredible grip, strength, and just beats his opponents senseless. It’s a slow death. Nolf is an cold blooded assassin. Plan and simple. Looks for a slight opening then bam. When he is laser focused he will throw his opponent around like a rag doll. Just ask MJordan. That was Nolf at his best. He made a statement with that beating. Joseph is a grizzly bear. Hall is just so technically sound and always in control. Valencia is not a 174lber! He is a 184lber and it’s crazy why he continues at 174lbs. Bo is Bo. He’s just lies in wait. Baits his opponent to walk into the trap then bam.
The Fab Five are so good and so different in style. That’s a reflection of how the coaches coach them to their strengths and best attributes. They don’t force a style on them allowing them to express their own and exploit it. Retherford is just a steam roller, always moving with incredible grip, strength, and just beats his opponents senseless. It’s a slow death. Nolf is an cold blooded assassin. Plan and simple. Looks for a slight opening then bam. When he is laser focused he will throw his opponent around like a rag doll. Just ask MJordan. That was Nolf at his best. He made a statement with that beating. Joseph is a grizzly bear. Hall is just so technically sound and always in control. Valencia is not a 174lber! He is a 184lber and it’s crazy why he continues at 174lbs. Bo is Bo. He’s just lies in wait. Baits his opponent to walk into the trap then bam.
The game plan starts October 10th every year. There is no special plan just for the NCAA Championships, for any of the guys.
At that point, all the preparation, starting over 5 months earlier, kicks in, and it's all about having fun, embracing the moment, and wrestling relaxed...something our guys do better than all others. Cael searches out kids willing to make "the commitment", managing every aspect of their lives for those 5 months...I heard it in almost every post-match interview, none moreso than Bo's post-final, and very passionate, interview.
You could see Nolf using the same strategy against Hidlay.
This is a Cenzo appreciation thread, so I won't go on about how impressed I was with the 'tactical Nolf' at Bigs and NCAAs. His semis performance was almost ZPain-like.
Back on topic, 165 has been the toughest weight class in college wrestling the last 2 years. As a 2 time champ VJ already stands as one of the PSU greats. If he gets 4 straight his name will go on a very short list of all time NCAA greats.
If he gets four, with being able to stop Imar two times in the finals, he has to be top ten all-time in NCAA history. A couple weird blips in his career, but on the big stage ....
Also this year when he got hurt or was it missed weight or was it whatever triggers panic here and glee elsewhere, and then when he twice got tossed.The best part is that some people (even here) were writing off Joseph during his redshirt year.
Ames2State reported that he needed a lifestyle change after showing up to the Scuffle 10 pounds over. Good times.The best part is that some people (even here) were writing off Joseph during his redshirt year.
Joseph's redshirt season is up there with Bo's move to 184.
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The best part is that some people (even here) were writing off Joseph during his redshirt year.
I remember the reaction of the insightful Taketop when Cenzo missed weight at the Scuffle his freshman year: “IMO Penn State missed big on Kemerer. Also would bet Joseph won't be on the team much longer …”
Not surprising that Taketop has either disappeared from the message boards entirely or at least disappeared behind a new screen name.
Marinelli.
Until White wrestles I can't label him a competitor. I would have stalled White to DQ.
The way Imar was looking all weekend--I too thought Cenzo would not repeat--im very happy that he proved me wrong
I only saw White against Cenzo. Granted, Cenzo is very hard to score on, but does White have a go to shot?
My point is still Vincenzo Joesph wrestled the most cerebral tournament I believe I have ever seen a kid wrestle. He wrestled brilliantly.
one could argue that Davids loss to bubba gives IMar a boost from that end.
one could argue that Davids tournament wins were not comparable to Imars
DT I think edges him bonus %, pins, and obviously hodge trophies
both 4 x B10 champs, multiple scuffle or midland champs etc.
PS- the NWCA sent a note and the all star match counts in the shadows for DT, like it did for Mark Halll.
one could argue that Davids tournament wins were not comparable to Imars
DT I think edges him bonus %, pins, and obviously hodge trophies
both 4 x B10 champs, multiple scuffle or midland champs etc.
PS- the NWCA sent a note and the all star match counts in the shadows for DT, like it did for Mark Halll.
Who would know? I assume with all the reverse movement he scores off people shooting and being extended and by lowering his stance if someone aggressively pursues him. But shoot. He never stepped forward, never once moved offensively.
It was a good post. Roar's role here is merely to turn every piece of wrestling discussion here into a generic, watered-down version of things he's heard Cael and the team say.
Brute strength, supreme understanding of leverage, a lot of fast twitch muscle (but he doesn't tire because he's so relaxed and confident), and a superior strategic mind. Cenzo has a lot of tools.
On a side note: If you watch the ESPN app of the reply... they have the camera on 'Cenzo's parents. His mom cracks me up. Most of the time she can not even watch the match
Very few overtly suffer through a match more than Cenzo's mom and dad! It's more exhausting for them than for their son!
I suspect the rest of the non- PSU fanbase won't be so quick in dismissing his chances next year. I seem to recall hearing some claims that he got lucky last year.
Dice, am I right that Cenzo is 2-3 career against Imar? Cenzo would be the classic example of performing his best when the lights are brightest.
Amazingly, Imar may have the distinction of being the only wrestler to have a winning record against both Nolf and Cenzo. Saying that is incredible would seem to be an understatement.
You are assuming those other fanbases have learning curves.
Next year it will be, he never beat anybody. IMAR who?
Just watched the replay of the Off the Mat broadcast. Casey should get a lot of credit for that win as well. You can hear him coaching Cenzo through that entire match in dealing with Imar's underhook and throw by, totally neutralizing Imar's offense. They knew Imar's playbook and executed the game plan perfectly.
Hopefully the PSU fanbase itself won't be so quick to dismiss his chances
Not dice, but you are correct. IMar winning 4-1, 8-5, and 5-2, while losing by Fall and 1-6. The college wrestling world won big with this 2-year match-up.
This was the second time I underestimated Vincenzo Joseph. I will never underestimate him again.
Yeah I kind of feel bad. Picked iMar as my "don't be a homer" pick, but then I started getting a little annoyed when the "media picks" were released and nobody was picking Cenzo.
Sorry if already asked. Looking for video of Joseph/IMar 2018 with Byers doing the call.
Wished I knew for sure which Penn State fan rode my ass over on HR for saying I was every bit as excited when PSU signed Cenzo than I was for Nolf and Retherford. I think I remember who it was and he’s well known here and there but I’m not certain.
This. I think IMAR sensed a weakness and went after it, despite his experience during last year's final.
In IMars defense, I was anxious (and admit it - so were you) every time Cenzo locked up upper body in the first 4 rounds. Strangely I wasn’t in the Finals... either because there really wasn’t as much to lose at that point, or I had confidence given last year, or I was drunk.
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