We might not be redshirting anyone

[regularfan]

Fly in the ointment (read the full attachment, jas a 2nd paragraph worth noting):

View embedded media

"Fly" might be putting it nicely. I will happily be wrong on this but I went from 50-50 on it to against it with this new information.

That makes the magic number for the season 34. I count 77 teams eligible for the Division I Championship this year and they need at least 50% to hold a championship. If all the MAC goes like the plan they released that is 14. Big Ten going would be 14 more for 28 if everybody participates from those conferences. It makes me wonder if that rule gives schools an easier out to say we are going to continue to sponsor this sport and count it towards our minimum but we are not going to compete this year (claim safety with money in mind). Down the road, I worry that the thinking becomes well the world didn't end when we didn't have wrestling and look at all this money we found for football or basketball ...

 

[1032004]

Fly in the ointment (read the full attachment, jas a 2nd paragraph worth noting):

View embedded media

I THINK this is only talking about 2020-2021, but it's not totally clear.

Official release: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources...nds-eligibility-winter-sport-student-athletes

Not ideal obviously, but with the added costs/liability risks I think it's understandable if some schools don't participate this year. However with other non-revenue sports currently going on, hopefully that's not the case.

 

[El-Jefe]

I THINK this is only talking about 2020-2021, but it's not totally clear.

Official release: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources...nds-eligibility-winter-sport-student-athletes

Not ideal obviously, but with the added costs/liability risks I think it's understandable if some schools don't participate this year. However with other non-revenue sports currently going on, hopefully that's not the case.

Probably true that it's about 2021, but that's still a Pandora's Box. Schools and conferences are now free to realign their athletics programs for future years as they see fit, provided they meet NCAA guidelines (which means they could all go the SEC route of minimum sports).

Call me paranoid? Maybe, but first call Boise State about their 3-year baseball experiment.

 

[regularfan]

I THINK this is only talking about 2020-2021, but it's not totally clear.

Not ideal obviously, but with the added costs/liability risks I think it's understandable if some schools don't participate this year. However with other non-revenue sports currently going on, hopefully that's not the case.

I understand the logic and there are definitely some positives to the legislation (especially for the current kids). I am hopeful that you are right and I am worried for no reason but any time you give schools an easier out to not compete in wrestling I worry about the future implications of that.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Also, the non-targeted funds are basically the University President's Pet Project Fund (which explains why most donations are targeted).

This is a very complex question for anyone outside Athletics accounting.

Short version: PSU Athletics has about $25M in reserves and (in August) expected to take out a loan. This was before football got reinstated. Still, PSU had planned to lose $100M in football revenue. Some/all of the B10 $55M should be back in play. Maybe other sources. Ticket/parking/concessions are dead.

So it's hard to imagine PSU having the funds to do much of anything unusual this year.

Plus PSU is one of the few self-sufficient Athletics programs in the country. Also one of the biggest in terms of number of teams -- and really doesn't want to cut sports.

I doubt most people fully understand the accounting (including myself and I am an accountant) but the cost to the wrestling team vs the cost to the University of wrestlers coming back for an extra year on partial scholarships are two different things. The partial (lets say half scholarship) returning would actually MAKE money for PSU. It means they are still paying 1/2 tuition which is still a good deal of money and the additional cost to the school for one additional student is very minimal. However, from an accounting standpoint the wrestling team would be charged the cost of that 1/2 ship with out any additional revenue. So bottom line is the wrestling team would look worse but the school would be better off. This would be true for any large school where the marginal cost of one additional student is very small.

 

[jtothemfp]

Hate to keep adding but they also mentioned expanding the field. I can't see that happening and am just hoping for 24 NCAA qualifiers instead of 16. However, the NCAA just posted a season memo: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/ch...d1/men/2020-21D1MWR_SeasonInformationMemo.pdf

Bunch of stuff that only the teams care about with NCAA planning but they mentioned the pre-championship manual will be posted in December which should lay out the qualifying process: http://www.ncaa.org/championships/division-i-wrestling

Thanks so much for all this intel!

 

[El-Jefe]

I doubt most people fully understand the accounting (including myself and I am an accountant) but the cost to the wrestling team vs the cost to the University of wrestlers coming back for an extra year on partial scholarships are two different things. The partial (lets say half scholarship) returning would actually MAKE money for PSU. It means they are still paying 1/2 tuition which is still a good deal of money and the additional cost to the school for one additional student is very minimal. However, from an accounting standpoint the wrestling team would be charged the cost of that 1/2 ship with out any additional revenue. So bottom line is the wrestling team would look worse but the school would be better off. This would be true for any large school where the marginal cost of one additional student is very small.

Very true.

However, the next large organization that accepts a bucket loss for overall gain, will be the first.

Sad but true story: a friend formerly worked for GE Aviation in NE Baltimore. He had frequent meetings in Dayton, either with the company or with Wright-Patterson AFB. BWI had nonstops to Dayton, so these were often day trips.

Then GE decided to lower airfare costs. Now the same trip from Baltimore to Dayton required driving to Dulles and flying into Cincinnati Airport in Kentucky. Saved $100 on airfare but added 2 days of labor + hotels, meals, rental cars, gas, and indentals. Not to mention a pissed off workforce.

So yeah, I don't believe that any big org is willing to accept a wrestling overrun that makes the school money overall.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Very true.

However, the next large organization that accepts a bucket loss for overall gain, will be the first.

Sad but true story: a friend formerly worked for GE Aviation in NE Baltimore. He had frequent meetings in Dayton, either with the company or with Wright-Patterson AFB. BWI had nonstops to Dayton, so these were often day trips.

Then GE decided to lower airfare costs. Now the same trip from Baltimore to Dayton required driving to Dulles and flying into Cincinnati Airport in Kentucky. Saved $100 on airfare but added 2 days of labor + hotels, meals, rental cars, gas, and indentals. Not to mention a pissed off workforce.

So yeah, I don't believe that any big org is willing to accept a wrestling overrun that makes the school money overall.

I agree, but I'm hoping Cael can convince them to keep anyone he wants for an extra year. After all , he has got the wrestling program close to break even and delivered 8 team titles with more to come. I expect the same will be true at schools like Iowa and tOSU, etc. However, smaller schools that are losing big money on wrestling the story will be different. Sad but true.

 

[regularfan]

I agree, but I'm hoping Cael can convince them to keep anyone he wants for an extra year. After all , he has got the wrestling program close to break even and delivered 8 team titles with more to come. I expect the same will be true at schools like Iowa and tOSU, etc. However, smaller schools that are losing big money on wrestling the story will be different. Sad but true.

Penn State is in a little different situation being a younger team. If scholarships are distributed how I might expect I think they can navigate the cap. Cael doesn't necessarily have to convince the department to pay for the extra scholarships in 2021-22 as it sounds like the plan was already to have Nick Lee on the roster in 2022 after an Olympic redshirt. As has been discussed, I am not sure where that leaves him and Kerkvliet this year with scholarships. Given that, I would think that the Facundo/Van Ness situation is going to be ok as their roster in 2022 is what they expected. I wouldn't think other seniors Gardner or Pipher are getting huge scholarships or would stick around if they don't see a spot in the lineup. However, it is those types of kids who have to have the "adult" conversations with coaches of keeping them or taking an incoming recruit instead to navigate the 9.9.

Penn State's biggest impact (if any) probably comes in 2025 & 2026 when the Beard, Brooks, Busiello, Kerkvliet, Joe Lee, Nevills, and Starocci are seniors. I would assume that ties up a significant portion of their current allotment if they all take extra years. However, that should give the staff enough time to adjust recruiting strategies as obviously nobody is committed that far down the line yet even if they do have preliminary targets. 2023 could be tighter than usual as I am not sure where Berge is by that point and what the plan was with RBY.

Either way, I did just want to say I am enjoying reading a lot of goods thoughts from everybody on the topic. Lots of interesting insight everybody is bringing.

 

[El-Jefe]

Penn State is in a little different situation being a younger team. If scholarships are distributed how I might expect I think they can navigate the cap. Cael doesn't necessarily have to convince the department to pay for the extra scholarships in 2021-22 as it sounds like the plan was already to have Nick Lee on the roster in 2022 after an Olympic redshirt. As has been discussed, I am not sure where that leaves him and Kerkvliet this year with scholarships. Given that, I would think that the Facundo/Van Ness situation is going to be ok as their roster in 2022 is what they expected. I wouldn't think other seniors Gardner or Pipher are getting huge scholarships or would stick around if they don't see a spot in the lineup. However, it is those types of kids who have to have the "adult" conversations with coaches of keeping them or taking an incoming recruit instead to navigate the 9.9.

Penn State's biggest impact (if any) probably comes in 2025 & 2026 when the Beard, Brooks, Busiello, Kerkvliet, Joe Lee, Nevills, and Starocci are seniors. I would assume that ties up a significant portion of their current allotment if they all take extra years. However, that should give the staff enough time to adjust recruiting strategies as obviously nobody is committed that far down the line yet even if they do have preliminary targets. 2023 could be tighter than usual as I am not sure where Berge is by that point and what the plan was with RBY.

Either way, I did just want to say I am enjoying reading a lot of goods thoughts from everybody on the topic. Lots of interesting insight everybody is bringing.

Here's a theoretical:
1. For discussion purposes, let's assume Cael has budget/slush fund money for a one-time hit this year.

2. PSU has the following 4th and 5th year wrestlers: Lee, Gardner, Pipher, Higgins, Berge, Verk, Blumer, Obendorfer.

3. PSU increases all their scholarships, up to full rides this year, but then they're done. (We'll exclude Lee for Olympic training, and possibly Berge for medical.) Since seniors don't count toward the 9.9 cap, PSU is now under by perhaps a head.

4. PSU redistributes that cap savings among its underclassmen this year -- but it's a tradeoff: you get less or nothing in future years, zero net change, just front-loaded. This creates a future year cap savings ...

5. Which PSU uses to land Figueroa. Or Cruz. Or uses after Facundo's grayshirt. Or uses to front-load other rostered guys in 2022 or 2023 or beyond, to eventually land a Chittum or McGowan or Kasak or Gibson.

6. This could also alleviate the 2025-2026 financial logjam, if those guys get their rides front-loaded.

 

[82bordeaux]

So based on this there would be no reason to have Lee/Kerk not enroll for the spring semester and wrestle? Correct?
Also, there would be no reason to redshirt Bartlett and Howard (provided he is healthy), right?

 

[El-Jefe]

So based on this there would be no reason to have Lee/Kerk not enroll for the spring semester and wrestle? Correct?
Also, there would be no reason to redshirt Bartlett and Howard (provided he is healthy), right?

Lee and Kerk would need to enroll in the spring if the coaches want to use them for a team title. Otherwise, no reason for them to enroll -- and possibly a strong financial disincentive: Olympic Shirt guys typically don't receive athletic aid, so they might be paying tuition out of pocket. (Unless Cael could reallocate some otherwise senior cap money their way, as in my post above.)

Regarding Bartlett and Howard: there is no redshirt this year to be given out. They would both retain their shirts for future years if desired.

Howard does bring up an interesting question: if he does not compete this year and loses another year for injury, would the NCAA grant him The Extension Formerly Known As 6th Year? Hope to never have to find out ...

 

[82bordeaux]

Lee and Kerk would need to enroll in the spring if the coaches want to use them for a team title. Otherwise, no reason for them to enroll -- and possibly a strong financial disincentive: Olympic Shirt guys typically don't receive athletic aid, so they might be paying tuition out of pocket. (Unless Cael could reallocate some otherwise senior cap money their way, as in my post above.)

Regarding Bartlett and Howard: there is no redshirt this year to be given out. They would both retain their shirts for future years if desired.

Howard does bring up an interesting question: if he does not compete this year and loses another year for injury, would the NCAA grant him The Extension Formerly Known As 6th Year? Hope to never have to find out ...

I think the Lee's own multiple properties in State College. They have probably long ago established PA residency, so they would be looking at $9500. I think that is a fair price to pay for a great shot at an NCAA title for a family that couldn't be more committed to their children's success. Kerk would be a different story.

 

[Ja1339]

So based on this there would be no reason to have Lee/Kerk not enroll for the spring semester and wrestle? Correct?
Also, there would be no reason to redshirt Bartlett and Howard (provided he is healthy), right?

I’m not seeing how Bartlett gets in the lineup if Roman and Nick are in the 33-41 weights.

 

[Ja1339]

Here's a theoretical:
1. For discussion purposes, let's assume Cael has budget/slush fund money for a one-time hit this year.

2. PSU has the following 4th and 5th year wrestlers: Lee, Gardner, Pipher, Higgins, Berge, Verk, Blumer, Obendorfer.

3. PSU increases all their scholarships, up to full rides this year, but then they're done. (We'll exclude Lee for Olympic training, and possibly Berge for medical.) Since seniors don't count toward the 9.9 cap, PSU is now under by perhaps a head.

4. PSU redistributes that cap savings among its underclassmen this year -- but it's a tradeoff: you get less or nothing in future years, zero net change, just front-loaded. This creates a future year cap savings ...

5. Which PSU uses to land Figueroa. Or Cruz. Or uses after Facundo's grayshirt. Or uses to front-load other rostered guys in 2022 or 2023 or beyond, to eventually land a Chittum or McGowan or Kasak or Gibson.

6. This could also alleviate the 2025-2026 financial logjam, if those guys get their rides front-loaded.

El Jefe, 2 questions please. I’ve seen discussions on the board about a possible greyshirt year next year for Facundo, but that hasn’t been confirmed, correct?

Also, doesn’t the possibility of CStar or AB staying an additional year make it harder for Facundo to get into the lineup?

 

[El-Jefe]

El Jefe, 2 questions please. I’ve seen discussions on the board about a possible greyshirt year next year for Facundo, but that hasn’t been confirmed, correct?

Also, doesn’t the possibility of CStar or AB staying an additional year make it harder for Facundo to get into the lineup?

Nothing confirmed.

And probably, though Cael has proven adept at juggling the lineup.

Another possibility is everybody moving up, maybe after Beard graduates (and he has already shirted).

Plus someone might take a 2024 Olympic shirt. If 2024 Olympic shirt rules are the same as 2020, then Brooks and Facundo are already eligible.

 

[regularfan]

I am going to start listening shortly but if anybody else wants to stay up an hour later, just saw this was posted tonight. Podcast with Cael Sanderson and Justin Basch (host). Not a big podcast guy so I never heard of Basch before but looking at old episodes it seems like he has done a lot with wrestling. Hopefully worth the time

 

[regularfan]

Couple key takeaways that I had. I like listening to Cael but in my opinion it was worth the time. You can skip the first 3-4 minutes as it is just the intro commercials.

- PSU appealed the NCAA decision of no extra years. Interesting perspective that I had not heard of: kids who took Olympic redshirts took a more "me first" approach and they are not punished and the kids who were in the NCAA and competing for school are punished. A couple could have Olympic redshirted and choose to compete for their school and the NCAA.

- Were planning on redshirting everybody this year they possibly could up until this recent decision. Everybody is a go now and you have to believe everybody will wrestle their best teams. No specific mention of Nick Lee or Kerklivet but I would assume they are part of everybody.

- PSU wants Big 10 to put the wrestling tournament at a neutral site this year with unknown crowd parameters but doesn't sound like that will happen as budget was set. Goal would be to host in 2022 BIG and create an incredible wrestling atmosphere like so many other schools in the conference have done recently. Going to have duals in the Jordan Center just to get more people in even if that does not financial sense because of cost of facility. Hope is to get to 6K fans. Not sure how to decide who to let in as season tickets have a wait list.

- Rokfin came about with coaches not wanting to quarantine for two weeks after coming back from each event and miss out on coaching. Talked to Track, Flo, like control of their own channel. Sanderson brings up point at Big 10 meetings every year how much wrestling adds value to Big 10 network and they are kind of pushed off in favor of basketball/football who move the needle financially. Rokfin gives us a chance to justify the value of our sport. Tired of being one of the sports that is always on the chopping block and it doesn't have to be like that.

- Brought up having Rokfin events in November and December as well as possibly January. Every program can run their own mini Flowrestling channel. Works as a great fundraiser for teams instead of just asking donors for money. Gives them value. Says every RTC and even every high school should do this to create content for the fans with a return financially.

- Upcoming event: Need to have matches that draw interest but need to be fair to the kids with the end goal in mind of qualifying for the Olympics.

- Nolf vs. Jenkins: Tough to find Nolf a match because people only want to wrestle people above them to move up the ladder. Joked that he was one of Bubba's top three friends and that Bubba is a competitor and wanted to make the match happen when approached.

- Brought up Starocci as the first guy he is most looking forward to. Then went on to mention Brooks jumping levels and then Bartlett wanting a really good opponent. Will have to shift some of the matches around since they had a situation with some contact tracing. It was never mentioned whether it was a PSU guy or somebody coming in to wrestle. Every single match will be full of intrigue. Closed that question by saying RBY has been very motivated and referenced the quote about him being a super hero just finding his super powers.

.- On Snyder/Gilman coming in: Love both those guys. Kyle Snyder just loves wrestling as evidenced by fact he is the only guy sitting out until Olympic trials finals who still went to Sr. Nationals. Gilman and RBY have been going together and flying all over the mats. We expect kids to be role models that come into NLWC. Can't be coaches but they can train with the college kids which helps everybody. "We want to have the best room in the world and I think we are pretty darn close to that."

- Guys on social media: Even with this new content creation my position hasn't really changed. Want guys to be in the best position to win championships. Doesn't benefit anybody to talk about what we did. Constantly looking ahead even after winning. No reason to have a ton of people in the room and show them what we are doing. Recruiting strategy was mentioned with being more open but his philosophy is lets just win and recruiting will take care of itself. Our team wrestled really well at 10 straight national tournaments and if you do your homework that is our best recruiting tool.

- Continued with Name/Image/Likeness: Future possibility of guys getting paid for these events. Circled back to self-promotion and guys having their own brand. Probably not going to make as much money as they think. Guys need to be focused on their goals. Is your goal to gain followers or achieve athletic success? Sanderson was 159-0 after college and really didn't get anything other than on Wheaties box and a small shoe endorsement. Not a lot of other interest in having him endorse products. Ultimate point was things work out if you just focus on your goals.

- Final thoughts: Hope to prove the value of wrestling with these events. Try to get better and maybe add some lights or whatever. Iowa vs. PSU match was one of the most watched winter events on Big 10 network. Also PSU vs. Ohio State with Cassar big win over Moore beat most of the basketball ratings from that season. Wrestling can put itself in a position to be ahead of the changing media landscape. We have a great product and we just have to figure out how to get the event out and secure a strong future for our sport.

- Question was asked about dodgeball on Rokfin. He laughed and said no dodgeball during quarantine. But that it does go to show the value content of a wrestling team can bring. Fans would watch a dodgeball game just to see what some of these guys do in their spare time.

 

[Ja1339]

Couple key takeaways that I had. I like listening to Cael but in my opinion it was worth the time. You can skip the first 3-4 minutes as it is just the intro commercials.

- PSU appealed the NCAA decision of no extra years. Interesting perspective that I had not heard of: kids who took Olympic redshirts took a more "me first" approach and they are not punished and the kids who were in the NCAA and competing for school are punished. A couple could have Olympic redshirted and choose to compete for their school and the NCAA.

- Were planning on redshirting everybody this year they possibly could up until this recent decision. Everybody is a go now and you have to believe everybody will wrestle their best teams. No specific mention of Nick Lee or Kerklivet but I would assume they are part of everybody.

- PSU wants Big 10 to put the wrestling tournament at a neutral site this year with unknown crowd parameters but doesn't sound like that will happen as budget was set. Goal would be to host in 2022 BIG and create an incredible wrestling atmosphere like so many other schools in the conference have done recently. Going to have duals in the Jordan Center just to get more people in even if that does not financial sense because of cost of facility. Hope is to get to 6K fans. Not sure how to decide who to let in as season tickets have a wait list.

- Rokfin came about with coaches not wanting to quarantine for two weeks after coming back from each event and miss out on coaching. Talked to Track, Flo, like control of their own channel. Sanderson brings up point at Big 10 meetings every year how much wrestling adds value to Big 10 network and they are kind of pushed off in favor of basketball/football who move the needle financially. Rokfin gives us a chance to justify the value of our sport. Tired of being one of the sports that is always on the chopping block and it doesn't have to be like that.

- Brought up having Rokfin events in November and December as well as possibly January. Every program can run their own mini Flowrestling channel. Works as a great fundraiser for teams instead of just asking donors for money. Gives them value. Says every RTC and even every high school should do this to create content for the fans with a return financially.

- Upcoming event: Need to have matches that draw interest but need to be fair to the kids with the end goal in mind of qualifying for the Olympics.

- Nolf vs. Jenkins: Tough to find Nolf a match because people only want to wrestle people above them to move up the ladder. Joked that he was one of Bubba's top three friends and that Bubba is a competitor and wanted to make the match happen when approached.

- Brought up Starocci as the first guy he is most looking forward to. Then went on to mention Brooks jumping levels and then Bartlett wanting a really good opponent. Will have to shift some of the matches around since they had a situation with some contact tracing. It was never mentioned whether it was a PSU guy or somebody coming in to wrestle. Every single match will be full of intrigue. Closed that question by saying RBY has been very motivated and referenced the quote about him being a super hero just finding his super powers.

.- On Snyder/Gilman coming in: Love both those guys. Kyle Snyder just loves wrestling as evidenced by fact he is the only guy sitting out until Olympic trials finals who still went to Sr. Nationals. Gilman and RBY have been going together and flying all over the mats. We expect kids to be role models that come into NLWC. Can't be coaches but they can train with the college kids which helps everybody. "We want to have the best room in the world and I think we are pretty darn close to that."

- Guys on social media: Even with this new content creation my position hasn't really changed. Want guys to be in the best position to win championships. Doesn't benefit anybody to talk about what we did. Constantly looking ahead even after winning. No reason to have a ton of people in the room and show them what we are doing. Recruiting strategy was mentioned with being more open but his philosophy is lets just win and recruiting will take care of itself. Our team wrestled really well at 10 straight national tournaments and if you do your homework that is our best recruiting tool.

- Continued with Name/Image/Likeness: Future possibility of guys getting paid for these events. Circled back to self-promotion and guys having their own brand. Probably not going to make as much money as they think. Guys need to be focused on their goals. Is your goal to gain followers or achieve athletic success? Sanderson was 159-0 after college and really didn't get anything other than on Wheaties box and a small shoe endorsement. Not a lot of other interest in having him endorse products. Ultimate point was things work out if you just focus on your goals.

- Final thoughts: Hope to prove the value of wrestling with these events. Try to get better and maybe add some lights or whatever. Iowa vs. PSU match was one of the most watched winter events on Big 10 network. Also PSU vs. Ohio State with Cassar big win over Moore beat most of the basketball ratings from that season. Wrestling can put itself in a position to be ahead of the changing media landscape. We have a great product and we just have to figure out how to get the event out and secure a strong future for our sport.

- Question was asked about dodgeball on Rokfin. He laughed and said no dodgeball during quarantine. But that it does go to show the value content of a wrestling team can bring. Fans would watch a dodgeball game just to see what some of these guys do in their spare time.

Awesome write up thanks.

The all in mantra leads me to believe Lee and Kerk are in. Berge and Howard would be in if they are healthy. Remaining question for me is does Beau get in the lineup at 49 (assuming RBY and Lee are in the 33-41 slots).

 

[NittanyChris]

Thanks so much for the summary! Would really love to see our best ten guys out there. The thought of Brooks jumping levels is scary for the field at 84, though not unexpected. Really excited to see Bartlett go. Iowa better not just assume their title is in the bag. The PSU Young Guns are coming for them!!!

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

Couple key takeaways that I had. I like listening to Cael but in my opinion it was worth the time. You can skip the first 3-4 minutes as it is just the intro commercials.

- PSU appealed the NCAA decision of no extra years. Interesting perspective that I had not heard of: kids who took Olympic redshirts took a more "me first" approach and they are not punished and the kids who were in the NCAA and competing for school are punished. A couple could have Olympic redshirted and choose to compete for their school and the NCAA.

- Were planning on redshirting everybody this year they possibly could up until this recent decision. Everybody is a go now and you have to believe everybody will wrestle their best teams. No specific mention of Nick Lee or Kerklivet but I would assume they are part of everybody.

- PSU wants Big 10 to put the wrestling tournament at a neutral site this year with unknown crowd parameters but doesn't sound like that will happen as budget was set. Goal would be to host in 2022 BIG and create an incredible wrestling atmosphere like so many other schools in the conference have done recently. Going to have duals in the Jordan Center just to get more people in even if that does not financial sense because of cost of facility. Hope is to get to 6K fans. Not sure how to decide who to let in as season tickets have a wait list.

- Rokfin came about with coaches not wanting to quarantine for two weeks after coming back from each event and miss out on coaching. Talked to Track, Flo, like control of their own channel. Sanderson brings up point at Big 10 meetings every year how much wrestling adds value to Big 10 network and they are kind of pushed off in favor of basketball/football who move the needle financially. Rokfin gives us a chance to justify the value of our sport. Tired of being one of the sports that is always on the chopping block and it doesn't have to be like that.

- Brought up having Rokfin events in November and December as well as possibly January. Every program can run their own mini Flowrestling channel. Works as a great fundraiser for teams instead of just asking donors for money. Gives them value. Says every RTC and even every high school should do this to create content for the fans with a return financially.

- Upcoming event: Need to have matches that draw interest but need to be fair to the kids with the end goal in mind of qualifying for the Olympics.

- Nolf vs. Jenkins: Tough to find Nolf a match because people only want to wrestle people above them to move up the ladder. Joked that he was one of Bubba's top three friends and that Bubba is a competitor and wanted to make the match happen when approached.

- Brought up Starocci as the first guy he is most looking forward to. Then went on to mention Brooks jumping levels and then Bartlett wanting a really good opponent. Will have to shift some of the matches around since they had a situation with some contact tracing. It was never mentioned whether it was a PSU guy or somebody coming in to wrestle. Every single match will be full of intrigue. Closed that question by saying RBY has been very motivated and referenced the quote about him being a super hero just finding his super powers.

.- On Snyder/Gilman coming in: Love both those guys. Kyle Snyder just loves wrestling as evidenced by fact he is the only guy sitting out until Olympic trials finals who still went to Sr. Nationals. Gilman and RBY have been going together and flying all over the mats. We expect kids to be role models that come into NLWC. Can't be coaches but they can train with the college kids which helps everybody. "We want to have the best room in the world and I think we are pretty darn close to that."

- Guys on social media: Even with this new content creation my position hasn't really changed. Want guys to be in the best position to win championships. Doesn't benefit anybody to talk about what we did. Constantly looking ahead even after winning. No reason to have a ton of people in the room and show them what we are doing. Recruiting strategy was mentioned with being more open but his philosophy is lets just win and recruiting will take care of itself. Our team wrestled really well at 10 straight national tournaments and if you do your homework that is our best recruiting tool.

- Continued with Name/Image/Likeness: Future possibility of guys getting paid for these events. Circled back to self-promotion and guys having their own brand. Probably not going to make as much money as they think. Guys need to be focused on their goals. Is your goal to gain followers or achieve athletic success? Sanderson was 159-0 after college and really didn't get anything other than on Wheaties box and a small shoe endorsement. Not a lot of other interest in having him endorse products. Ultimate point was things work out if you just focus on your goals.

- Final thoughts: Hope to prove the value of wrestling with these events. Try to get better and maybe add some lights or whatever. Iowa vs. PSU match was one of the most watched winter events on Big 10 network. Also PSU vs. Ohio State with Cassar big win over Moore beat most of the basketball ratings from that season. Wrestling can put itself in a position to be ahead of the changing media landscape. We have a great product and we just have to figure out how to get the event out and secure a strong future for our sport.

- Question was asked about dodgeball on Rokfin. He laughed and said no dodgeball during quarantine. But that it does go to show the value content of a wrestling team can bring. Fans would watch a dodgeball game just to see what some of these guys do in their spare time.

Regularfan, Thanks for that great write-up. I had not seen it when I posted my lengthy summary of the interview late last night on the separate interview thread. I wasn't trying to compete with you, and I appreciate you taking the time to post your summary. You covered several portions of the interview that I didn't, so between the two posts most all of the interview is covered. Also, thanks for mentioning that line about "top three friends". For the life of me, neither my wife or I could make out the exact quote. Cael's audio quality wasn't great, at least on my end.

 

[regularfan]

Regularfan, Thanks for that great write-up. I had not seen it when I posted my lengthy summary of the interview late last night on the separate interview thread. I wasn't trying to compete with you, and I appreciate you taking the time to post your summary. You covered several portions of the interview that I didn't, so between the two posts most all of the interview is covered. Also, thanks for mentioning that line about "top three friends". For the life of me, neither my wife or I could make out the exact quote. Cael's audio quality wasn't great, at least on my end.

No worries. I am equally as guilty I guess as I did not see yours and you hit on some things I did not. There was definitely a lot of good stuff that was covered in my opinion so the more, the merrier I say!

 

[86PSUPaul]

I loved reading both of your write ups! I thought they were incredibly consistent!

 

[a_mshaffer]

I loved reading both of your write ups! I thought they were incredibly consistent!

agreed, any time we get more than standard pre/post match quotes from Cael makes for a great day!

 

[RoarLions1]

+2 weights isn't unusual. Mark Hall was listed at 197 at least 1 year.

+3 weights... yeah, that would be unusual.

Good thread! This post caught my eye as a trivia question, as to my knowledge it's only happened once.

Name the wrestler that jumped 3 weight classes, one year to the next, getting his first and only AA finish the year of the jump.

 

[regularfan]

Good thread! This post caught my eye as a trivia question, as to my knowledge it's only happened once.

Name the wrestler that jumped 3 weight classes, one year to the next, getting his first and only AA finish the year of the jump.

Is it Shakur Rasheed? I forget if his All-American was at 197 or 184? I also forget which year he missed due to injury.

 

[regularfan]

Just cheated and looked after my guess. He did All-American at 197 after wrestling 165 previously but there was a year in between that he missed for injury so I guess I am not correct: https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/20305/rasheed-shakur/profile

 

[RoarLions1]

Is it Shakur Rasheed? I forget if his All-American was at 197 or 184? I also forget which year he missed due to injury.

No, it wasn't a PSU guy. Shak's AA was at 197 in 2018...fyi.

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

No, it wasn't a PSU guy. Shak's AA was at 197 in 2018...fyi.

Roar, If it means anything to you, I spent about an hour scouring the old interweb and came up dry. My faith in search engines is now severely diminished! Am I remembering correctly that you recently retired? If so, congratulations! If not, carry on. P.S. It is nice to see you posting recently after not seeing too many posts by you the last few months.

 

[CurtisLoew40]

Suspect a lot of guys across the country, starters and depth, are gonna be told this is your last year if you're 4th year or you're on track to graduate early.

Wisconsin told all spring athletes they weren't getting an extra year earlier this year so there is definitely precedent. I don't think schools will pick and choose who stays or who goes. Just everyone who wants to stay can or everyone has to go. Then they either transfer or they're just done.
The free year is great for this year but it screws up rosters numbers and recruiting for four to five years.

 

[El-Jefe]

Wisconsin told all spring athletes they weren't getting an extra year earlier this year so there is definitely precedent. I don't think schools will pick and choose who stays or who goes. Just everyone who wants to stay can or everyone has to go. Then they either transfer or they're just done.
The free year is great for this year but it screws up rosters numbers and recruiting for four to five years.

Some schools will definitely do it. Been happening in football nationally for many years -- once they've earned their degree, the school is not obligated to fund grad school, so those guys are often told they have to transfer to play their 5th year.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Some schools will definitely do it. Been happening in football nationally for many years -- once they've earned their degree, the school is not obligated to fund grad school, so those guys are often told they have to transfer to play their 5th year.

PSU wrestling will definitely pick and choose. Nick Lee, RBY, Aaron Brooks will definitely be asked to stay for a 5th season. Berge too if he gets healthy, but the rest of the current roster would not be asked to stay. Of course, most of those are on only a minimal scholarship and probably would not come back anyway if they have already graduated.

 

[Ja1339]

PSU wrestling will definitely pick and choose. Nick Lee, RBY, Aaron Brooks will definitely be asked to stay for a 5th season. Berge too if he gets healthy, but the rest of the current roster would not be asked to stay. Of course, most of those are on only a minimal scholarship and probably would not come back anyway if they have already graduated.

Cstar, Beau and Kerk aren’t on that list? 😱

 

[El-Jefe]

Cstar, Beau and Kerk aren’t on that list? 😱

Also kinda early to write off Beard and Howard. Though I doubt that was NoVa's intent.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Also kinda early to write off Beard and Howard. Though I doubt that was NoVa's intent.

It wasn't. I just didn't list everyone only those I thought of off the top of my head. I hadn't really thought it thru re true frosh and incoming true frosh. Now that I have, just on PSU there are a bunch of potential 5x BIG and NCAA champs. I don't think the NCAA thought this thru either. Think of what they have done to different groups of wrestlers in terms of how many NCAA championships they can wrestle in.

First group - those that were seniors last season (Cenzo, Hall, etal) only got 3 NCAAs. Second group - those that wrestled last season but were not seniors. They get 4 NCAAs.
Third group - Those that redshirted last season (regular on Olympic) and incoming true frosh if they wrestle this season. They get 5 NCAAs.

That seems grossly unfair and for wrestling (not talking about any other sport) there is an easy and fair, IMHO, way they could have handled this. Those that qualified for the 2020 NCAAs get an extra season. Every one else is treated under the normal rules. Can anyone see a flaw in my plan? Trying to but it seems very fair to me.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

I still cant understand why, if we actually end up having a full season, why would they still get a free year??

That would be a real kick in the teeth to Cenzo, Marky, Shak etc, some of which BEGGED to get an extra year.

 

[Ja1339]

It wasn't. I just didn't list everyone only those I thought of off the top of my head. I hadn't really thought it thru re true frosh and incoming true frosh. Now that I have, just on PSU there are a bunch of potential 5x BIG and NCAA champs. I don't think the NCAA thought this thru either. Think of what they have done to different groups of wrestlers in terms of how many NCAA championships they can wrestle in.

First group - those that were seniors last season (Cenzo, Hall, etal) only got 3 NCAAs. Second group - those that wrestled last season but were not seniors. They get 4 NCAAs.
Third group - Those that redshirted last season (regular on Olympic) and incoming true frosh if they wrestle this season. They get 5 NCAAs.

That seems grossly unfair and for wrestling (not talking about any other sport) there is an easy and fair, IMHO, way they could have handled this. Those that qualified for the 2020 NCAAs get an extra season. Every one else is treated under the normal rules. Can anyone see a flaw in my plan? Trying to but it seems very fair to me.

If this season is a free year for everyone, wouldn’t that mean all wrestlers who didn’t graduate last year could potentially have 5 NCAAs? Sorry if I’m confused, but I don’t understand why some would be in a group to get 4 NCAAs and some 5. I took it as everyone who competes this year has a chance for 5.

 

[NoVa Lion]

If this season is a free year for everyone, wouldn’t that mean all wrestlers who didn’t graduate last year could potentially have 5 NCAAs? Sorry if I’m confused, but I don’t understand why some would be in a group to get 4 NCAAs and some 5. I took it as everyone who competes this year has a chance for 5.

Nick Lee is a senior this year and has had only TWO NCAAs so he gets this year and the next so FOUR NCAAs.

 

[Phantom of the Palestra]

Sorry if this was addressed and I missed it. Is Nov 1st still a thing? The reason we believed PSU was going to shirt everyone this year was because they had college athletes competing on the Rokfin shows before Nov 1st, thus making them ineligible to compete this year. Is that rule still in effect? Listening to Cael it doesn't sound like it.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Sorry if this was addressed and I missed it. Is Nov 1st still a thing? The reason we believed PSU was going to shirt everyone this year was because they had college athletes competing on the Rokfin shows before Nov 1st, thus making them ineligible to compete this year. Is that rule still in effect? Listening to Cael it doesn't sound like it.

I haven't seen anything from the NCAA but I agree that Cael's attitude makes it sounds like that rule and pretty much every rule regarding eligibility for the upcoming season is out the window.