What Rules Changes Would You Like To See?

[RoarLions1]

Serious question, for when the NCAA Wrestling Committee visits our humble forum .

Rule changes are MOSTLY made every 2 years. The current "Rules and Interpretations" goes through the end of 2016-17, so a new publication will be made around July, 2017...for years 2017-18 and 2018-19.

I'd like to see;
1) A 3-point takedown (leave a reversal at 2)
2) Elimination of the tie-breaker period. Let the wrestlers settle a match on their feet with a series of sudden victory 2-minute periods.

Other reasonable suggestions?

 

[dunkej01]

I like the 1pt pushout.
i could live with a 3-point takedown.
I like the shot clock concept and would trade that for the riding time point and wouldnt see both experimented with at the All star match or a HS preseason event.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Confession: Not sure I'm a fan of either of those rules changes...at that point, you might as well just go to the WNO OT rules, and shut off the clock.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Also, I'm not sure "bottom to top" should be worth more than "neutral to top"...this sport is about control, after all.

 

[NittanyLion84]

Serious question, for when the NCAA Wrestling Committee visits our humble forum .

Rule changes are MOSTLY made every 2 years. The current "Rules and Interpretations" goes through the end of 2016-17, so a new publication will be made around July, 2017...for years 2017-18 and 2018-19.

I'd like to see;
1) A 3-point takedown (leave a reversal at 2)
2) Elimination of the tie-breaker period. Let the wrestlers settle a match on their feet with a series of sudden victory 2-minute periods.

Other reasonable suggestions?

They need to come up with an effective deterrent, for coaches who abuse the challenge rules, for a lunger break.

 

[manatree]

Get rid of riding time.

 

[manatree]

They need to come up with an effective deterrent, for coaches who abuse the challenge rules, for a lunger break.

If the challenge is unsuccessful, it counts as a stall warning against the coach's wrestler.

 

[NittanyLion84]

If the challenge is unsuccessful, it counts as a stall warning against the coach's wrestler.

I don't think that would be effective, in all situations. If a wrestler, in a very close match, has not been warned yet, at the start of the third period and his coach notices his wrestler fading, he will challenge something and not be concerned in the least about a stall warning.

 

[farmer79]

If the challenge is unsuccessful, it counts as a stall warning against the coach's wrestler.

I've voiced this opinion before but your paying second official why not let him make a few calls. Stalling an falls to start

 

[CowboyUp61]

1. Eliminate riding time
2. Start all 3 periods neutral
3. Eliminate escape point from an optional advantage start-just start on feet with word from wrestler in advantage position, with no point awarded.
4. Two minute sudden victory period.
5. Choice in UTB goes to person with LAST point in regulation.

 

[KidNittany]

Back Exposure is automatic 2 pts

 

[RoarLions1]

Thanks for contributing SHP...that's OK, 'cause I LOVE both of my suggestions...and a guy much more important than either of us (in the scheme of things) agrees!!

 

[jammenz]

If a match is tied at the end of regulation there is a one minute sudden death period. If there is still a tie the referee decides the winner, just like the old days.

 

[FineMaterial]

1. Eliminate riding time
2. Start all 3 periods neutral
3. Eliminate escape point from an optional advantage start-just start on feet with word from wrestler in advantage position, with no point awarded.
4. Two minute sudden victory period.
5. Choice in UTB goes to person with LAST point in regulation.

#3!!! huge benefit to good neutral wrestler. I've been advocating this for a while.

 

[FineMaterial]

If a match is tied at the end of regulation there is a one minute sudden death period. If there is still a tie the referee decides the winner, just like the old days.

Jammenz, lynching has gone out of style, we don't want to bring it back. Besides there are plenty of ways to do a tie breaker, tds, back points, or even order of scoring like freestyle.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Thanks for contributing SHP...that's OK, 'cause I LOVE both of my suggestions...and a guy much more important than either of us (in the scheme of things) agrees!!

I too would like to eliminate sudden victory. Not sure I agree on a 3 pt TD. To me, the purpose of rule changes should be to promote offense, and not attempt to make it appear that bouts are more offensive by giving more points out for each move. jmho.

I would like to see them add another circle between the center and outer edge, and any wrestler caught in there for a five count gets an auto stall warning. Similar to being in the paint in basketball for a five count.

 

[Pennstate1985]

1. Eliminate riding time
2. Start all 3 periods neutral
3. Eliminate escape point from an optional advantage start-just start on feet with word from wrestler in advantage position, with no point awarded.
4. Two minute sudden victory period.
5. Choice in UTB goes to person with LAST point in regulation.

On #1, I am in the opposite camp. Award a point for each minute of riding time. Folkstyle is about control. If you eliminate the reward for control, we start slipping toward freestyle.

On #3, very much in favor of this. A wrestler should not be rewarded for something not earned.

On #4 and 5, agree.

Also, would like to see two points awarded for a failed challenge. Make the penalty meaningful for stopping action.

 

[El-Jefe]

5. Choice in UTB goes to person with LAST point in regulation.

Kill the stall ride period -- or at the very least make it long enough that bottom likely will escape, so top has an incentive to score.

 

[tikk10]

I do like the 3 point TD but think there should be a 3 point Reversal as well. The idea should't be so much to reward TDs as water down Escapes, which should be worth less than 50% of a TD. Pulling Reversals up along with TDs accomplishes that.

I'm not a fan of the second tiebreaker at all because at that point (and often before in anticipation of its eventuality) the game theory incentives change from wrestling to win to wrestling not to lose, which is obviously less enjoyable to watch. That said, the types of matches that go to tiebreakers are typically 1-1, or 3-3, and feature no offense; so why would a sudden death from neutral (which I assume can last to infinity?) suddenly spur more offense? At least the present tiebreakers address that problem by forcing an end on the clock. It seems like a lot of matches would end on a referee hitting one guy for stalling, when in reality both guys have been doing their fair share.

There's also a good argument to keep the rules as is for a bit and let things gel. Folk is in pretty good shape, and the last change did shake things up a bit. Even though the automatic stalling rule is called inconsistently, you don't see guys continually drift out of bounds together, and the sport much easier on the eyes for that. Each year those calls will get smoothed out across the sport. Maybe let's get there first before adding in new wrinkles.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Thanks for contributing SHP...that's OK, 'cause I LOVE both of my suggestions...and a guy much more important than either of us (in the scheme of things) agrees!!

Well, if I like it that much, I could always share it with Chuck Barbee, Mark Branch, or Kevin Jackson this weekend!

 

[CowboyUp61]

I do like the 3 point TD but think there should be a 3 point Reversal as well. The idea should't be so much to reward TDs as water down Escapes, which should be worth less than 50% of a TD. Pulling Reversals up along with TDs accomplishes that..

I think an "earned" escape should still be comparable. My problem is the push-away from an optional start being worth as much as if "earned".

While not dead set against riding time, have seen too many people do exactly that - ride. No attempt to turn the opponent. Maybe if referees consistently enforced the existing rules regarding stalling, I would say keep it!

 

[El-Jefe]

I agree with all of your changes.

Concerning riding time -- I'd like to see the point be awarded as soon as the one minute of riding time has been earned. The RT clock would then be reset to 0:00.

Tony Nelson would immediately apply for 4 more years of eligibility.

 

[RoarLions1]

If I compiled correctly, we have...

- A 3-point takedown (leave a reversal at 2) - Elimination of the tie-breaker period. Let the wrestlers settle a match on their feet with a series of sudden victory 2-minute periods. - I like the 1pt pushout. - i could live with a 3-point takedown. - I like the shot clock concept and would trade that for the riding time point and wouldn’t see both
- They need to come up with an effective deterrent, for coaches who abuse the challenge rules, for a lunger break.
- If the challenge is unsuccessful, it counts as a stall warning against the coach's wrestler.
- Get rid of riding time.
- I've voiced this opinion before but you’re paying second official why not let him make a few calls.
- Eliminate riding time - Start all 3 periods neutral - Eliminate escape point from an optional advantage start-just start on feet with word from wrestler in advantage position, with no point awarded. - Two minute sudden victory period. - Choice in UTB goes to person with LAST point in regulation.
- Back Exposure is automatic 2 pts
- If a match is tied at the end of regulation there is a one minute sudden death period. If there is still a tie the referee decides the winner, just like the old days.
- I too would like to eliminate sudden victory. Not sure I agree on a 3 pt TD. To me, the purpose of rule changes should be to promote offense, and not attempt to make it appear that bouts are more offensive by giving more points out for each move. jmho. - I would like to see them add another circle between the center and outer edge, and any wrestler caught in there for a five count gets an auto stall warning. Similar to being in the paint in basketball for a five count.
- Award a point for each minute of riding time. - Would like to see two points awarded for a failed challenge. Make the penalty meaningful for stopping
- Choice in UTB goes to person with LAST point in regulation.
- Kill the stall ride period -- or at the very least make it long enough that bottom likely will escape, so top has an incentive to score.
- I do like the 3 point TD but think there should be a 3 point Reversal as well. The idea should't be so much to reward TDs as water down Escapes, which should be worth less than 50% of a TD. Pulling Reversals up along with TDs accomplishes that. - Concerning riding time -- I'd like to see the point be awarded as soon as the one minute of riding time has been earned. The RT clock would then be reset to 0:00.

I was confused by some of the suggestions, so only clarifying the terminology here;
Sudden Victory (SV) is ONLY the 1 minute period, used when the match is tied, and can be 1-minute long, both wrestlers start neutral. If still tied, Tie-Breaker (TB) is ONLY the two 30-second periods when each wrestler normally gets a shot at top (offensive) and bottom (defensive) positions.
Still tied, and it's another SV, followed by TB, if needed...

 

[matter7172]

1. Add another point for riding time for 2 minutes or more of advantage.
2. Eliminate overtime for matches in dual meets. Bring back the tie.
3. Eliminate tie-breakers for ties between teams in dual meets. Bring back the tie.
4. Reward pinning more. Give 8 team points for a first period pin and 7 for second and third period pins. I'd say change bonus team points for margins of victory but that seems to be very entrenched. Given my druthers, I would eliminate the tech fall and give 4 team points for a margin of victory 10 points or greater, 6 team points for a first period pin and 5 for a second or third period pin.
5. For OT in tournaments, wrestle a 1-1-1 mini match without gimmicks. Continue riding time from regulation. If the two wrestlers are tied at the end of 10 minutes, wrestler with greater riding time wins. If somehow the riding times are equal, go to criteria. First should be stalling calls. Wrestler with less stalling warnings wins. Then most takedowns; then back points, ...

 

[CowboyUp61]

Roar, to clarify part of mine.

I would like OT to be one 2 minute SV, then ONE one minute ultimate tie breaker. The last person to score in regulation would get the choice in the UTB. If still tied, last person to score in UTB wins the match.

 

[El-Jefe]

1. Add another point for riding time for 2 minutes or more of advantage.
2. Eliminate overtime for matches in dual meets. Bring back the tie.
3. Eliminate tie-breakers for ties between teams in dual meets. Bring back the tie.
4. Reward pinning more. Give 8 team points for a first period pin and 7 for second and third period pins. I'd say change bonus team points for margins of victory but that seems to be very entrenched. Given my druthers, I would eliminate the tech fall and give 4 team points for a margin of victory 10 points or greater, 6 team points for a first period pin and 5 for a second or third period pin.
5. For OT in tournaments, wrestle a 1-1-1 mini match without gimmicks. Continue riding time from regulation. If the two wrestlers are tied at the end of 10 minutes, wrestler with greater riding time wins. If somehow the riding times are equal, go to criteria. First should be stalling calls. Wrestler with less stalling warnings wins. Then most takedowns; then back points, ...

Why would any sport have different rules for its postseason than for its regular season? Confusing for the athletes, coaches, refs, and fans.

 

[Fink]

My proposals are the following:

1. 3 point take down.
2. ]After 1 minute of riding time with no back points, stand the wrestlers up with no escape awarded. Another take down, you can ride up to the next minute marker. Any back points starts the minute clock over.
3. Back exposure 2,3,4,5 points -- 2 for any then add a point for each swipe after the second one.
4. For ties, one 2 minute sudden victory. If no score, winner is the person with the highest scoring move. If both the same, last to score wins.
5. 1 point penalty for lost challenge -- in dual meets it could go to team score, in tournaments right to scoreboard.

 

[KFM74]

Why would any sport have different rules for its postseason than for its regular season? Confusing for the athletes, coaches, refs, and fans.

I think the NFL has different overtime rules in the post season. If I remember correctly the players did not know the rules in the first place. Yet another reason my interest in Sunday football is rapidly decreasing.

 

[PSU Mike]

1. Eliminate riding time
2. Start all 3 periods neutral
3. Eliminate escape point from an optional advantage start-just start on feet with word from wrestler in advantage position, with no point awarded.
4. Two minute sudden victory period.
5. Choice in UTB goes to person with LAST point in regulation.

Different perspective on #3. Why is it the top guy's choice whether the bottom guy has a chance to score 1 for an escape?

 

[dicemen99]

Different perspective on #3. Why is it the top guy's choice whether the bottom guy has a chance to score 1 for an escape?

Agree strongly. Strategically, in many matches this may eliminate mat wrestling. Yes, mat wrestling will still exist in matches, but in any match expected to be tight I think you would see pretty much everyone hanging on until stoppage so they could then award an escape and save a point - and it's way easier to stall out the end of a period in neutral than risk losing a point unless you are a really superior rider (Zain). Plus the incentive to drive out of bounds while on top goes through the roof. I think this would be a disaster in college wrestling, unless the purpose is to turn folkstyle into freestyle.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I think the NFL has different overtime rules in the post season. If I remember correctly the players did not know the rules in the first place. Yet another reason my interest in Sunday football is rapidly decreasing.

The only rule that is different is the overtime rule. Hockey has the same rule as does soccer. The only human that didn't know that rule was Donovan McNabb, a graduate of Syracuse, where academics are placed above sports. Or so I've been told.

 

[CowboyUp61]

Agree strongly. Strategically, in many matches this may eliminate mat wrestling. Yes, mat wrestling will still exist in matches, but in any match expected to be tight I think you would see pretty much everyone hanging on until stoppage so they could then award an escape and save a point - and it's way easier to stall out the end of a period in neutral than risk losing a point unless you are a really superior rider (Zain). Plus the incentive to drive out of bounds while on top goes through the roof. I think this would be a disaster in college wrestling, unless the purpose is to turn folkstyle into freestyle.

good point, but I just hate the old 2 for 1 exchange when bottom guy is just turned loose.

Driving someone OOB should be a stalling call (notice I said should be, not is) which would eliminate the incentive to do so. Just hanging on should be a stalling call also.

So, like always, we can blame the ills of the world on all the refs out there

 

[CropDuster507]

I love that so many people are against riding time, here. I feel at home.

I catch unbelievable amounts of $&%* on The G for asking for that.

 

[matter7172]

Why would any sport have different rules for its postseason than for its regular season? Confusing for the athletes, coaches, refs, and fans.

Actually, until whatever year OT in dual meets was implemented (off the top of my head, sometime in the 1980s), that was precisely the existing situation. I don't remember *anyone* being confused.

 

[jammenz]

Jammenz, lynching has gone out of style, we don't want to bring it back. Besides there are plenty of ways to do a tie breaker, tds, back points, or even order of scoring like freestyle.

Yeah, and they all suck. When the wrestlers know that the ref is assessing their activity level in ot they tend to go all out. The 60's and 70's had some of the best overtime matches in history.

 

[El-Jefe]

Yeah, and they all suck. When the wrestlers know that the ref is assessing their activity level in ot they tend to go all out. The 60's and 70's had some of the best overtime matches in history.

Like saying your girlfriend has a nice personality.

 

[AgSurfer]

Here is a really radical suggestion:

Allow the top guy to attempt a tilt using a gutwrench. Same backpoint rules apply, but if the top guy fails to turn his guy, he gets a stall call. This would have some effect on the locked hands rule, but not much. If you lock hands to prevent the guy from escaping, you would only get one freebie. After that, the points would start accumulating just like they do now.

 

[psuflyguy]

Enforce rules that are in place to keep coaches in their place instead of on the mat, jumping around like an over caffeinated leprechaun.

 

[El-Jefe]

Enforce rules that are in place to keep coaches in their place instead of on the mat, jumping around like an over caffeinated leprechaun.

Leprechaun?

 

[SandBuff]

1) A 3-point takedown, if completed by the wrestler who took the shoot. Call it a 2 point scramble if completed by the wrestler who was shoot on. (leave a reversal at 2)
2) Use most takedowns to decide tie matches. If takedowns are even, then Elimination of the tie-breaker period. Let the wrestlers settle a match on their feet with a series of sudden victory 2-minute periods
3) 0 points when the top wrestlers lets the bottom wrestler up. Top must notify ref before whistle.
4) wrestlers return to neutral after 1.5 minutes if there are no back points. 1 point per minute of riding time.