where we stand vs 85 limit???

[blion72]

lots of discussion around us not having space for Proctor. On Phil's call in, he has projected that we should have 1 open spot, assuming no departures. he has also said there are several former walk-ons holding scholarships.

it seems very logical we are going to get some departures - NFL or transfers. Marcus Allen has been one obvious to NFL, but there could be other NFL or transfer players. this would seem to open at least one spot.

additionally, if we have the ability to suddenly land a top 100 recruit, wouldn't you assume a former walk-on holding a scholarship would be told we cannot offer that this year. stay on team and you may get it back next year. outside of Smith, we don't have any critical walk-on players who were given scholarships. this could free up a few more spots.

overall, it would seem we have several possible openings.

 

[step.eng69]

Walk on's were a factor that held this program together the last five years. Now you want to throw them aside? I'm sure the coaching staff will find a way to leave no child behind. Proceed with your life and leave the logistics to the people that get paid to deal with recruiting. Jeebus Christianity, long, respectful version of JC without swearing.

 

[PSU.:.]

That's a tough one though. Give Proctor a spot or let a walk on who never contributes other then practices. I know what 99% of other programs would do.

 

[lionlurker]

I know what 99% of other programs would do.

Precisely. This is what makes us different.

 

[marshall23]

I became a fan because psu is not like other programs.

 

[Cosmos]

Walk on's were a factor that held this program together the last five years. Now you want to throw them aside? I'm sure the coaching staff will find a way to leave no child behind. Proceed with your life and leave the logistics to the people that get paid to deal with recruiting. Jeebus Christianity, long, respectful version of JC without swearing.

With gusto! That was then, this is now. Football is a team sport. You tell him he must go for the good of the team. Why is this so hard for some of younz to wrap your heads around?!

 

[84Lion]

That's a tough one though. Give Proctor a spot or let a walk on who never contributes other then practices. I know what 99% of other programs would do.

Precisely. This is what makes us different.

Given that PSU was that close to making it into the CF playoffs, if that one person could be the "difference maker" to put PSU into the CFP...are you still OK with PSU being the 1%? Remember we are talking a team sport here - granted, a deserving walk-on could be hurt, emotionally and financially, but the rest of the guys on the team could be looking at a potential CF championship...vs not.

 

[bdgan]

lots of discussion around us not having space for Proctor. On Phil's call in, he has projected that we should have 1 open spot, assuming no departures. he has also said there are several former walk-ons holding scholarships.

it seems very logical we are going to get some departures - NFL or transfers. Marcus Allen has been one obvious to NFL, but there could be other NFL or transfer players. this would seem to open at least one spot.

additionally, if we have the ability to suddenly land a top 100 recruit, wouldn't you assume a former walk-on holding a scholarship would be told we cannot offer that this year. stay on team and you may get it back next year. outside of Smith, we don't have any critical walk-on players who were given scholarships. this could free up a few more spots.

overall, it would seem we have several possible openings.

We're already at 87. I think I heard that B1G teams can have no more than 88 on signing day so that might be why Phil says we have room for 1 more. Regardless, we must still ultimately get down to 85.

No worry though because 21Guns assured us that 3 underclassmen will voluntarily transfer.

 

[Tweedbear]

Cosmos
How is it good for the team to injure one of the members for a stranger. Do you create a sense of insecurity among the remaining players who are not five star.
Some time the decision hurts the team by passing on a "potential"star and rewarding an overachiever.
We have had our share of underachieving 4-5 Star recruits.

 

[lionlurker]

Given that PSU was that close to making it into the CF playoffs, if that one person could be the "difference maker" to put PSU into the CFP...are you still OK with PSU being the 1%? Remember we are talking a team sport here - granted, a deserving walk-on could be hurt, emotionally and financially, but the rest of the guys on the team could be looking at a potential CF championship...vs not.

Yep, I can live with that. It's a slippery slope.

I have no grand vision about PSU ever winning a national championship again. It's great to be in the conversation, but we're never going to pull in 4-5 of the necessary 5-star recruits every single year. So I see no need to even discuss compromising our values.

 

[RickinDayton]

Yep, I can live with that. It's a slippery slope.

I have no grand vision about PSU ever winning a national championship again. It's great to be in the conversation, but we're never going to pull in 4-5 of the necessary 5-star recruits every single year. So I see no need to even discuss compromising our values.

Agree lurker.

FIGHT ON STATE!!!

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Yep, I can live with that. It's a slippery slope.

I have no grand vision about PSU ever winning a national championship again. It's great to be in the conversation, but we're never going to pull in 4-5 of the necessary 5-star recruits every single year. So I see no need to even discuss compromising our values.

Disagree...not that we may never win another NC. That's a hard thing to do, even for the big boys not named Alabama. Rather, I think this year has shown that with a little on-field momentum, Franklin can pull in top talent (see how he's closing 2017 and starting 2018). No reason why we can't both bring in too talent AND not compromise our values.

 

[Nitwit]

We win today and we end up #3 with these walk ons in the family. Embrace these kids, don't betray them.

 

[blion72]

That's a tough one though. Give Proctor a spot or let a walk on who never contributes other then practices. I know what 99% of other programs would do.

i am not suggesting that the player not stay on the team, just pull the scholie. these guys came to school with no expectation of having a scholarship, and were awarded largely because we were not filling the recent classes with actual recruits - this was a surprise present to these players. they would still be on the team - just not getting aid. guys like Smith earned their scholarship, so nobody is suggesting pulling those scholarships.

this happens to academic scholarship kids all the time - you dont keep these academic scholarships for your entire career at PSU. equally you can always earn them back.

it seems that you are hurting the team when you have fewer spaces for recruits vs competition because you lose a number of slots being given to non-contributors. i think at tOSU even the guys who were given scholies lose them if they cannot perform.

this may be academic because every year we lose a few players to transfers or other kind of departures. not too hard to pick 5-10 names of guys who would have little motivation to stay around. with our recruiting if you are in your 3rd year and not playing a role, doubt you will be in the future.

 

[Matteeeee]

When did Proctor receive the scholarship offer? Is this something he has been sitting on for awhile? If so then he put himself in this situation.

 

[lionlurker]

It seems likely that Proctor could have committed months ago, and did not. That is his privilege. But at this time of year, things do tighten up a lot. You'd think that these kids would see this every year and not get themselves into this situation.

 

[bdgan]

It seems likely that Proctor could have committed months ago, and did not. That is his privilege. But at this time of year, things do tighten up a lot. You'd think that these kids would see this every year and not get themselves into this situation.

Proctor's recruitment has been a mystery from day 1. Who waits until January to take visits? Possible grade issues?

I disagree with blion72's post about cutting scholarships for underclassmen. I wonder who he would cut even if I did agree. Contributors like Smith or Davis? Maybe an extra QB like Stevens or Zembiec? That would sure put kids in a bad position of looking for another school on short notice.

 

[Art]

We're already at 87. I think I heard that B1G teams can have no more than 88 on signing day so that might be why Phil says we have room for 1 more. Regardless, we must still ultimately get down to 85.

No worry though because 21Guns assured us that 3 underclassmen will voluntarily transfer.

That is not entirely correct. Big Ten rules are that teams cannot sign more than three above the number that are a) completing eligibility; and b) have declared for early NFL entry. Thus, if the sum of a + b is 18, a team can sign 21. There is a provision, however, that permits a higher number provided that the team give a detailed accounting to the Big Ten of how it will get to 85.

 

[Art]

i am not suggesting that the player not stay on the team, just pull the scholie. these guys came to school with no expectation of having a scholarship, and were awarded largely because we were not filling the recent classes with actual recruits - this was a surprise present to these players. they would still be on the team - just not getting aid. guys like Smith earned their scholarship, so nobody is suggesting pulling those scholarships.

this happens to academic scholarship kids all the time - you dont keep these academic scholarships for your entire career at PSU. equally you can always earn them back.

it seems that you are hurting the team when you have fewer spaces for recruits vs competition because you lose a number of slots being given to non-contributors. i think at tOSU even the guys who were given scholies lose them if they cannot perform.

this may be academic because every year we lose a few players to transfers or other kind of departures. not too hard to pick 5-10 names of guys who would have little motivation to stay around. with our recruiting if you are in your 3rd year and not playing a role, doubt you will be in the future.

This is a red herring. Paterno's practice when scholarships were available was to provide them to walk-ons with the proviso that they were for one year. To the best of my recollection the only exceptions were for kickers/punters who were seldom recruited in the first place. I would venture to guess that Coach Franklin follows the same policy.

 

[Nitt1300]

Given that PSU was that close to making it into the CF playoffs, if that one person could be the "difference maker" to put PSU into the CFP...are you still OK with PSU being the 1%? Remember we are talking a team sport here - granted, a deserving walk-on could be hurt, emotionally and financially, but the rest of the guys on the team could be looking at a potential CF championship...vs not.

damn right I am

 

[bdgan]

That is not entirely correct. Big Ten rules are that teams cannot sign more than three above the number that are a) completing eligibility; and b) have declared for early NFL entry. Thus, if the sum of a + b is 18, a team can sign 21. There is a provision, however, that permits a higher number provided that the team give a detailed accounting to the Big Ten of how it will get to 85.

Thanks for the clarification. The bottom line is that we still have to get to 85.

I'm not sure about your kickers and punters comment. Would we pull Barbir's scholarship since Davis is doing well? I can't imagine. But this does create a bit of a mess because I can't see us pulling Davis' scholarship considering how well he has performed.

 

[Lion8286]

That's a tough one though. Give Proctor a spot or let a walk on who never contributes other then practices. I know what 99% of other programs would do.

What walk-ons that never contributed in real games have scholarships??

 

[bdgan]

What walk-ons that never contributed in real games have scholarships??

Walker (although he's played on ST).

 

[Lion8286]

Walker (although he's played on ST).

I'm pretty sure ST are part of the game. He also played some time on offense and defense, including starting some games.

Additionally, he has no eligibility left so zero effect on Proctor.

 

[blion72]

What walk-ons that never contributed in real games have scholarships??

i recall that Phil said we have 6 with scholies, NOT including Davis and Smith. i think Art's comment above is what we are talking about. you just hand out the unused sholies to walk-ons for a year when they are not being used. take them back when needed. players stay on the team just w/o scholies. i think we are not talking about players who were recruited scholie players, only walk-ons. I do not know the actual players Phil was referring to.

 

[Art]

Thanks for the clarification. The bottom line is that we still have to get to 85.

I'm not sure about your kickers and punters comment. Would we pull Barbir's scholarship since Davis is doing well? I can't imagine. But this does create a bit of a mess because I can't see us pulling Davis' scholarship considering how well he has performed.

To clarify my point on punters/kickers: since Joe often didn't recruit these positions on a scholarship basis, he would award a multi-year scholarship to walk-ons who emerged as starters. Thus, it has no bearing on a kicker who was recruited as a scholarship player e.g. Barbir.

Actually, this whole discussion of numbers available is sort of pointless. The only people with a real sense are the coaches and they ain't talking much. We'll find out when we find out.

 

[Fairfax Lion]

Stay the course... I'm very happy that we are NOT like the other 99%. Win at all costs has never been our way. Let's not sacrifice guys who have walked on and given their all for PSU for a prospect(s) who have been given arbitrary star rankings by biased recruiting services and ultimately may or may not work out. I have faith that our coaches will do what's right!

 

[bmw199]

We're already at 87. I think I heard that B1G teams can have no more than 88 on signing day so that might be why Phil says we have room for 1 more. Regardless, we must still ultimately get down to 85.

No worry though because 21Guns assured us that 3 underclassmen will voluntarily transfer.

I think there will be two transfers and one dismissal (bc there is almost always one knucklehead a year). I'd be shocked if there were no attrition at all.

Problem is when will it happen, before signing day? I think attrition will be how Smith and Davis get their scholarships renewed for next year. I expect both to be back with or without schollies. If a recruit like Proctor doesn't like it, he has only himself to blame. You don't wait on committable offers to do a hat pick or get to be on tv. That's how you lose your spot. Now Conliffe was told he was option B at Bama so I don't really feel bad for him, that fact that he's probably coming here helps too.

 

[GregInPitt]

Recent CB's of Conliffe to PSU. Seems that the last scholarship at this point may be his for the taking.

I really like our DT depth chart right now, but one thing that the CFB playoff has show is that a great DL is absolutely necessary to get to the finals..... Clemson pillaging the DT's that CJF was on is the reason their defense looks so good.

 

[bdgan]

I think there will be two transfers and one dismissal (bc there is almost always one knucklehead a year). I'd be shocked if there were no attrition at all.

Problem is when will it happen, before signing day? I think attrition will be how Smith and Davis get their scholarships renewed for next year. I expect both to be back with or without schollies. If a recruit like Proctor doesn't like it, he has only himself to blame. You don't wait on committable offers to do a hat pick or get to be on tv. That's how you lose your spot. Now Conliffe was told he was option B at Bama so I don't really feel bad for him, that fact that he's probably coming here helps too.

That sounds similar to 21guns prediction of 3 transfers. Kids usually transfer as juniors or seniors when it looks like they're not going to see much PT. I don't see too many of those. Possibly an OL or QB.

 

[Ranger Dan]

If I had a choice of two evils, I'd rather let the walk on keep his scholarship and discuss a transfer with a returning senior that isn't expected to contribute significantly. Encouraging a player to transfer isn't something to be proud of, but at least you know he would be going to a program that he could potentially play a bigger role.

 

[blion72]

That sounds similar to 21guns prediction of 3 transfers. Kids usually transfer as juniors or seniors when it looks like they're not going to see much PT. I don't see too many of those. Possibly an OL or QB.

it seems that our average turnover is around 3-4 players per year for a variety of reasons. I believe that BWI showed Noah Beh as dismissed from the team (Oct issue), and he is part of the 88 count if not mistaken.

 

[bdgan]

it seems that our average turnover is around 3-4 players per year for a variety of reasons. I believe that BWI showed Noah Beh as dismissed from the team (Oct issue), and he is part of the 88 count if not mistaken.

Yes, Beh is one of the 69 scholarship athletes eligible to return next year. I hadn't heard that he was dismissed from the team.

 

[bdgan]

If I had a choice of two evils, I'd rather let the walk on keep his scholarship and discuss a transfer with a returning senior that isn't expected to contribute significantly. Encouraging a player to transfer isn't something to be proud of, but at least you know he would be going to a program that he could potentially play a bigger role.

There are no returning seniors that wouldn't be expected to contribute.
Hamilton, Blacknall, Godwin
Gesicki
Mahon, Nelson
Chavis, Cothran, Cothren
Sickels
Cabinda, Smith
Campbell, Haley, Apke, Allen

 

[blion72]

Yes, Beh is one of the 69 scholarship athletes eligible to return next year. I hadn't heard that he was dismissed from the team.

Beh was covered in BWI printed issue.

 

[GregInPitt]

There are no returning seniors that wouldn't be expected to contribute.
Hamilton, Blacknall, Godwin
Gesicki
Mahon, Nelson
Chavis, Cothran, Cothren
Sickels
Cabinda, Smith
Campbell, Haley, Apke, Allen

But there are a few redshirt juniors that have been in the program for 3 years but are not likely to contribute in their 4th year in the program, 2017....

Brosnan, Thomas, Beh (?)

 

[bmw199]

it seems that our average turnover is around 3-4 players per year for a variety of reasons. I believe that BWI showed Noah Beh as dismissed from the team (Oct issue), and he is part of the 88 count if not mistaken.

Yes, Beh is one of the 69 scholarship athletes eligible to return next year. I hadn't heard that he was dismissed from the team.

Beh was covered in BWI printed issue.

Hadn't heard that but it wouldn't at all be surprising.