Who has the old pics of maize and blue referines and Lloyd carr chains?

[LionDeNittany]

So it's unlikely MSU didn't have any fans in the state of Michigan that weren't alumni? That's the arguement? Pretty hard to respond to that type of evidence.

Without reading the whole thread M&B, I'm a pretty reasonable person. I don't run around saying there are conspiracies all over the place. However there clearly is reffing bias in the Big Ten. It is especially evident in our games with Michigan. The toe in heel out call. Adding time to the clock. Calling a hold on PSU on the go ahead drive suddenly. The lack of holding calls in 1999 when your OL were literally ripping the helmets off our players.

It's fine that you don't notice. I wouldn't expect you to notice. After all we're just one game on your schedule. That said, to most of us here it is blatantly obvious.

Every year I expect that it was just an unusual year and then what do you know, it happens again at the end of the game.

OSU last year for example with the lack of replay. That was a new one even for me.

LdN

 

[Go M&B]

Without reading the whole thread M&B, I'm a pretty reasonable person. I don't run around saying there are conspiracies all over the place. However there clearly is reffing bias in the Big Ten. It is especially evident in our games with Michigan. The toe in heel out call. Adding time to the clock. Calling a hold on PSU on the go ahead drive suddenly. The lack of holding calls in 1999 when your OL were literally ripping the helmets off our players.

It's fine that you don't notice. I wouldn't expect you to notice. After all we're just one game on your schedule. That said, to most of us here it is blatantly obvious.

Every year I expect that it was just an unusual year and then what do you know, it happens again at the end of the game.

OSU last year for example with the lack of replay. That was a new one even for me.

LdN

I'm pretty reasonable as well. I believe most fans see the calls that go against them. I've seen several threads regarding biased officiating from last weeks IU/UM game. But, there were some horrendous calls/non calls against UM that our fan base was pissed about. We tend to see what we want to see.

That said, I'll call a spade a spade without hesitation. I've already said that the toe heel call was terrible. I said it the day it happened. However, I'll never understand the issue with adding time back on the clock. It's clear as day that the clock continued to run. I've watched the clip dozens of times.

Calling it a conspiracy, which you're clearly not, is crazy. And plenty of people here will claim there is one. Lots of UM fans believe Delaney hates UM as evidenced by comments he made regarding our rose bowl game from 1990ish. I don't feel that way but some do.

 

[LionDeNittany]

I'm pretty reasonable as well. I believe most fans see the calls that go against them. I've seen several threads regarding biased officiating from last weeks IU/UM game. But, there were some horrendous calls/non calls against UM that our fan base was pissed about. We tend to see what we want to see.

That said, I'll call a spade a spade without hesitation. I've already said that the toe heel call was terrible. I said it the day it happened. However, I'll never understand the issue with adding time back on the clock. It's clear as day that the clock continued to run. I've watched the clip dozens of times.

Calling it a conspiracy, which you're clearly not, is crazy. And plenty of people here will claim there is one. Lots of UM fans believe Delaney hates UM as evidenced by comments he made regarding our rose bowl game from 1990ish. I don't feel that way but some do.

Well in that case you can just watch the games over and over and see for yourself. The heel toe catch was reviewed. It wasn't a bang bang call. HArtsock catch another example where the ball clearly bounced. Last year's equipment failure. It goes on and on. In general I feel most leagues support front runners to try to get a team in the playoff or NC game. However that has never benefitted PSU.

Actually it has. PSU typically gets calls for them vs. Illinois and Minnesota. I mean until the year Paterno told Minnesota the refs made a terrible call awarding the win to PSU. Then all bets were off.

LdN

 

[Mixolydian]

I'm pretty reasonable as well. I believe most fans see the calls that go against them. I've seen several threads regarding biased officiating from last weeks IU/UM game. But, there were some horrendous calls/non calls against UM that our fan base was pissed about. We tend to see what we want to see.

That said, I'll call a spade a spade without hesitation. I've already said that the toe heel call was terrible. I said it the day it happened. However, I'll never understand the issue with adding time back on the clock. It's clear as day that the clock continued to run. I've watched the clip dozens of times.

Calling it a conspiracy, which you're clearly not, is crazy. And plenty of people here will claim there is one. Lots of UM fans believe Delaney hates UM as evidenced by comments he made regarding our rose bowl game from 1990ish. I don't feel that way but some do.

I've watched it dozens of times too. Adding time back wasn't a reviewable matter back then. They didn't add the 2 secs back after a review, they added them back after the refs huddled up...with of course the head referine Lloyd Carr in the huddle. Fact.

 

[Go M&B]

I've watched it dozens of times too. Adding time back wasn't a reviewable matter back then. They didn't add the 2 secs back after a review, they added them back after the refs huddled up...with of course the head referine Lloyd Carr in the huddle. Fact.

Earlier in the game, time was added back to the clock when PSU had the ball. Fact.

 

[AWS1022]

There are missed calls then there are blatantly bad calls. Every fan expects there to be missed calls and people on this board bitch about them but they're not bringing them up years later. The ones they're bringing up are blatantly bad calls, like the heel-toe incident. And it seems beyond just being a fan that PSU gets way more of those than other teams in the Big and those types of calls never go against OSU and Michigan. At some point it goes beyond just missed calls. If a whole fan base sees it, what's more likely, that the whole fan base is crazy or that there is serious bias against that team? I've been a coach in multiple sports for years and I am not a nut conspiracy theorist, but at some point even the most rational person has to start to wonder.

 

[AWS1022]

Earlier in the game, time was added back to the clock when PSU had the ball. Fact.

And who was winning at the time?

 

[Mixolydian]

Earlier in the game, time was added back to the clock when PSU had the ball. Fact.

Ummm....Earlier in the game Penn State wasn't in a last half a minute attempted game-winning drive.. Nor was Paterno in the huddle with the referines. Wake up.

 

[wcsd832]

The heel toe catch was legal and a catch when it happened. The rules have since changed, so now it's not a catch. When it happened it was.

 

[michnittlion]

The heel toe catch was legal and a catch when it happened. The rules have since changed, so now it's not a catch. When it happened it was.

The heel-toe catch wasn't really "legal" as much as "the rule book was unclear on such a play." The rule book as it stood in 2005 really provided no clarity as to what should occur on that type of play.

"Approved ruling" 7-3-6-15, which addresses a "heel-toe catch", first appeared in the 2009 version of the NCAA rule book.

 

[wcsd832]

The heel-toe catch wasn't really "legal" as much as "the rule book was unclear on such a play." The rule book as it stood in 2005 really provided no clarity as to what should occur on that type of play.

"Approved ruling" 7-3-6-15, which addresses a "heel-toe catch", first appeared in the 2009 version of the NCAA rule book.

So like I said it was a catch when it happened because there was no rule saying it wasn't. Then in 2009 there was a rule put in place making it no longer a catch. If it shouldn't have been a catch when it happened they wouldn't have had to add a rule making it not a catch.

 

[LionDeNittany]

So like I said it was a catch when it happened because there was no rule saying it wasn't. Then in 2009 there was a rule put in place making it no longer a catch. If it shouldn't have been a catch when it happened they wouldn't have had to add a rule making it not a catch.

No it was not. It had been ruled incomplete several times before and after that game.

Ldn

 

[michnittlion]

No it was not. It had been ruled incomplete several times before and after that game.

Ldn

Correct.

I specifically remember heel/toe coming up in the 2005 Fresno State/Louisiana Tech game, which was played well after the U-M game. It was ruled incomplete in that game.

Neither the U-M/PSU refs or the Fresno/LT refs were necessarily correct or necessarily incorrect. The 2005 rule book could have been read either way. Thus "approved ruling" 7-3-6-15 a few years later.

 

[ChiTownLion]

Forget the rule book and look at these two pictures. One was ruled a catch and the other was not.

 

[aged_wolverine]

Forget the rule book and look at these two pictures. One was ruled a catch and the other was not.

In that second catch, did he have possession at that moment? Did he bobble it? I have no clue. I don't have it etched in my brain. The only one you guys continue to bitch about, on a pretty regular basis no less, is the Manningham one. The clock should of stopped, giving us the shot to win.

I don't recall time being put back on earlier in the game, and if so, it makes your complaints even that much more silly.