Dantonio had that program running like a well-oiled machine. And then the wheels came off. What happened? Maybe similar to Iowa when Ferentz started tapping into a different pool of recruits?
Why did the wheels fall off for MSU?
- Thread starter ChiTownLion
- Start date
They had the wrong lug nuts trying the keep the wheels on.
Their culture problems caught up with them.
Just one aspect, maybe not the whole explanation, but what Dantonio used to motivate MSU was to use the us against the world, chip on their shoulder, nobody things we can win, stuff that sold well to the blue collar 3 star recruits in order get them to sacrifice and work together as a team. When MSU had the success that it had in 2015, maybe they lost the team spirit.
MSU had a string of 3 star guys turn out to be 5 start talent. Look at the Qb's they had, Laveon Bell at RB. A couple of defensive backs. They had a large fraction of overachievers in a short period of time at some key positions. they added some nice depth due to Michigan and PSU being down (even OSU for a year before Urban) to raise the overall level of the program. Now PSU, Michigan, and OSU are at the top of their game. And the run of good luck with over performing 3 star guys has ended. I don't think MSU is as bad as their record showed, but i think you see MSU back to a more historical level of 8-4 type team.
MSU (and D'Antonio) lucked out by Michigan hiring RichRod and letting him drive the program off a cliff. A strong Michigan essentially relegates MSU to "who cares" status.
When Michigan is weak, MSU can recruit A LOT better. D'Antonio took full advantage of that but those classes are basically gone.
When Michigan is weak, MSU can recruit A LOT better. D'Antonio took full advantage of that but those classes are basically gone.
Obviously, it all went downhill once the defensive genius went to Pitt. He was the glue that held it all together.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Took advantage of PSU and UM being down, then reality corrected itself. D'antonio is a clown and karma is a bitch.
Looking forward to visiting East Lansing, and seeing JF put his foot back down on your coach's throat. That will be fun.
Can you guys please not start with this idiot like you did with the troll from michigan that turned into a 5 page pissing match?
I don't think it'll matter much where the game is played. MSU had a nice little run, but they've fallen back into their traditional 2nd tier status, and with all of the big dogs in the conference at or close to full power, I just can't see sparty being more than an also-ran for the foreseeable future.
A couple of reasons.
I'll put them in order of importance, INMO.
1.) The JS scandal and fall out. That INMO is about 50% of the reason of them getting better.
Constant bashing of the program, lying to recruits about more sanctions and coaches getting fired and the reductions of schollies and the run-ons
all led to them being the superior program for a few years. Thats now over.
2.) Rich Rod destroying the UM program and Hoke just being a miserable game day coach was another 30% or so.
3.) The prison system producing better athletes and Dantonio having a direct recruiting pipeline to it.
What would be great is if Dantonio got disgusted and resigned and..... they hired Nardouchbag away from Pitt and he totally f**ked up MSU's program. Better yet, we get to laugh at Pitt because another "savior" of their program just took a giant shit on them and they have to oil that revolving door to the Pitt coach's office.
I don't know but I wouldn't write MSU off. 3 of their last 4 recruiting classes were ranked in the top 25 and I think Dantonio is a good coach.
2014: 22nd
2015: 22nd
2016: 18th
2017: 33rd
Apparently this ESPN writer feels like they have fallen off as well...ouch
http://www.espn.com/blog/bigten/pos...gs-buckeyes-loaded-again http://es.pn/2pxC7lC
http://www.espn.com/blog/bigten/pos...gs-buckeyes-loaded-again http://es.pn/2pxC7lC
Nobody's mentioned random chance which is a lot of it.
All these programs have talent. Sometimes you end up with great leadership and a team that overachieves relative to its base talent (as PSU did last year). And sometimes you recruit great players but you lack leadership and character and the team falls apart at the end of the season (a la PSU in 1999, MIchigan last year).
The other thing about football is -- you can have all-Americans at 15 positions but if you have one unit that is not competitive, teams will find that weakness and pick you apart. Football is a "weakest link" kind of game. If you're uncompetitive on the DL in the Big Ten, from injuries or poor recruiting or whatever, you're toast - Basically, this is Rutgers (I mean the DL part, not the 15 all-Americans part).
If you don't have adequate speed in your secondary -- at least ONE corner who can run with everybody, at least one safety who is useful in coverage -- if you don't that, it's just embarrassing. Northwestern if they get a couple injuries in the secondary - they have sometimes been defenseless in the secondary.
I think a lot of Dantonio's problem last year was simply a tremendous rash of injuries that left them without a decent DL and without a secondary. And then they ran out of running backs and didn't have particularly great QB play. Add a pretty decent OOC schedule and you have a 3 win season.
I wouldn't underestimate them for this coming season. Dantonio has certainly proved himself as a coach.
All these programs have talent. Sometimes you end up with great leadership and a team that overachieves relative to its base talent (as PSU did last year). And sometimes you recruit great players but you lack leadership and character and the team falls apart at the end of the season (a la PSU in 1999, MIchigan last year).
The other thing about football is -- you can have all-Americans at 15 positions but if you have one unit that is not competitive, teams will find that weakness and pick you apart. Football is a "weakest link" kind of game. If you're uncompetitive on the DL in the Big Ten, from injuries or poor recruiting or whatever, you're toast - Basically, this is Rutgers (I mean the DL part, not the 15 all-Americans part).
If you don't have adequate speed in your secondary -- at least ONE corner who can run with everybody, at least one safety who is useful in coverage -- if you don't that, it's just embarrassing. Northwestern if they get a couple injuries in the secondary - they have sometimes been defenseless in the secondary.
I think a lot of Dantonio's problem last year was simply a tremendous rash of injuries that left them without a decent DL and without a secondary. And then they ran out of running backs and didn't have particularly great QB play. Add a pretty decent OOC schedule and you have a 3 win season.
I wouldn't underestimate them for this coming season. Dantonio has certainly proved himself as a coach.
Hard to rank them below MD and Indy. I get the problems, but I think MSU's lousy 2016 can be chalked up to horrible QB play.
Did MSU really get better because of the Sandusky fallout? They may have picked up one two recruits that would have come to PSU. Did we recruit Nicholson hard? Can't recall any off the top of my head, but I'm sure somebody will quickly remind me. Doubt it was enough to push them to the top.
A player or two is big. Plus, it gave them an additional W, for the most part. But I think, as you suggest, it is a lot of things. UM's fall probably bigger than ours. Next year, a couple of kids being tossed and the distractions relative to the bad Dr. But that is speculative because that is next year. Fact is, it is only one bad year so far. Who knows what 2017 may bring.
Its not so much who they got but who we lost and the # of players we had.
Michigan State began to peak, from negative recruiting over Joe's age. All of this occurred before the sanctions. Their break through win over Penn State happened at Beaver Stadium in 2010, 28-22, while Joe was still head coach, and before the sanctions.
Other than Wisconsin (the monster OL guys they get) in the Big it is next to impossible to "stay" good with mostly 3 star guys. MSU will rally, but I see them, as their history shows, as an "every now and then" team. Others are: Iowa, NW, Nebraska (of late).
OSU, Michigan and PSU (should be) are the perennial power teams.
OSU, Michigan and PSU (should be) are the perennial power teams.
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