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Worst case scenario for PSU

The Spin Meister said:
So who is better? A team that lost three early games but made major improvements or a team that lost its last two? A team that had early key injuries and is now healthy or a team that just lost a couple players? Few teams in September are the same in November.
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What if they lost a couple of players for one or two games in the conference tournament, but would have them back for the NCAA tournament, but they lost? My opinion is if you’re in a league that should get one bid, then it should go to the team who proved it throughout the entire season. The NCAA tournament is becoming too enamored with the mid-major cinderella stories that never pan out by the end of the tournament. If college football fans want the “best” teams in the playoffs, college basketball fans should want the same.
 
LandoComando said:
You're not supposed to be happy Ohio St and Michigan beat us like they shouldn't be happy we beat them but they would be happy if we beat Georgia Bama etc in the playoffs. Again not a tough concept. You root for the Big Ten in non conference games
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Is that the reason B10 representatives voted for Nebraska in 94?
 
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Agoodnap said:
The playoffs should be:

The 10 conference champions are in.
Eye Test for ranking of the 10 champions.
7 plays 10 and 8 plays 9. Winners advance and are eye test ranked either 7 or 8.

Here are the quarter finals.
1 vs 8
2 vs 7
3 vs 6
4 vs 5
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Why waste time and spots with the G5 teams? They’re never going to win anything and they take spots away from teams that might. Top 2 in each P5 conference for a 10 team tournament.
 
Agoodnap said:
The playoffs should be:

The 10 conference champions are in.
Eye Test for ranking of the 10 champions.
7 plays 10 and 8 plays 9. Winners advance and are eye test ranked either 7 or 8.

Here are the quarter finals.
1 vs 8
2 vs 7
3 vs 6
4 vs 5
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That would be great if the 10 conferences were equal with they aren't. This is utter nonsense.
 
AWS1022 said:
Why waste time and spots with the G5 teams? They’re never going to win anything and they take spots away from teams that might. Top 2 in each P5 conference for a 10 team tournament.
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Except for seeding this eliminates the "EYE" test. Win your conference and you're in. It would also, over time, create a much more balanced cfb landscape as every team has a serious opportunity to play for the championship. Did you know that 10 wild card teams have made the Super Bowl and 6 of them have won it? With your logic they wouldn't have made the playoffs.
 
LandoComando said:
But it doesn't make sense to care about winning a conference when they aren't all equal.
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What does Sense have to do with anything? If the playoff existed this year, it wouldn't make sense to put PSU in. We already know they aren't better than UM and OSU, right? Not even close.
 
heckmans said:
What does Sense have to do with anything? If the playoff existed this year, it wouldn't make sense to put PSU in. We already know they aren't better than UM and OSU, right? Not even close.
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They weren't when they previously played. Things change over time. You're acting as though the outcome I'd determined by a prior game. It isn't. Bama would destroy LSU if they played again. Flukes happen. We'll eventually get to 24 or 28 playoff teams or see FBS break into 2 levels and it will be amazing
 
Agoodnap said:
Except for seeding this eliminates the "EYE" test. Win your conference and you're in. It would also, over time, create a much more balanced cfb landscape as every team has a serious opportunity to play for the championship. Did you know that 10 wild card teams have made the Super Bowl and 6 of them have won it? With your logic they wouldn't have made the playoffs.
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Not true because wild card NFL teams play in the same divisions and conferences as the non wild card teams. You’re throwing teams in there that play lesser programs throughout the year. It’s apples and oranges. And taking the top two from each P5 conference eliminates the “eye” test as well. Each conference sets up parameters before the season on who gets first place and second place and you play the season knowing the rules.
 
AWS1022 said:
Not true because wild card NFL teams play in the same divisions and conferences as the non wild card teams. You’re throwing teams in there that play lesser programs throughout the year. It’s apples and oranges. And taking the top two from each P5 conference eliminates the “eye” test as well. Each conference sets up parameters before the season on who gets first place and second place and you play the season knowing the rules.
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No, because in doing so you've eliminated over half the teams. I agree that the parameters must be set before the season, but I'd like one representative from each conference. We'd probably get at least one upset a year putting a G5 into the semi-finals. That would make things much more interesting and long term I think it would make college football healthier. This year two of the four teams don't belong as they didn't win their conference.
 
Agoodnap said:
No, because in doing so you've eliminated over half the teams. I agree that the parameters must be set before the season, but I'd like one representative from each conference. We'd probably get at least one upset a year putting a G5 into the semi-finals. That would make things much more interesting and long term I think it would make college football healthier. This year two of the four teams don't belong as they didn't win their conference.
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This is honestly the most nonsensical thing I've read. Stating teams don't belong as they didn't win their conference doesn't make any sense. Absolutely none.

Using this logic every good team should create a conference with 8 bad teams and just lock up a spot yearly.
 
Agoodnap said:
No, because in doing so you've eliminated over half the teams. I agree that the parameters must be set before the season, but I'd like one representative from each conference. We'd probably get at least one upset a year putting a G5 into the semi-finals. That would make things much more interesting and long term I think it would make college football healthier. This year two of the four teams don't belong as they didn't win their conference.
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One upset in seven games isn’t worth screwing legitimate teams out of a playoff spot. Teams playing in the SEC or Big Ten shouldn’t get screwed out of a spot so the winner of the MAC can get in. If that’s the case, teams like Wiscy and Iowa should just go join the MAC.
 
LandoComando said:
This is honestly the most nonsensical thing I've read. Stating teams don't belong as they didn't win their conference doesn't make any sense. Absolutely none.

Using this logic every good team should create a conference with 8 bad teams and just lock up a spot yearly.
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It's actually the only thing that makes sense to me. Win your conference and you get into the playoffs. Why would you prefer an "Eye" test? I guess what you're saying is that we don't need to play any games as you're so smart that you could declare the champion based on observing preseason practice. This is a great idea as it would save the hassle of actually playing any games.
 
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Agoodnap said:
It's actually the only thing that makes sense to me. Win your conference and you get into the playoffs. Why would you prefer an "Eye" test? I guess what you're saying is that we don't need to play any games as you're so smart that you could declare the champion based on observing preseason practice. This is a great idea as it would save the hassle of actually playing any games.
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See every other sport
Especially as a Penn State fan this is beyond absurd
This is old school mentality where teams need to be undefeated. Teams improve as the year goes on. The more teams in the playoffs the better because teams can fight for seeding as opposed yo being 6-2 while losing to two top 5 teams and you have nothing left to play for other than pride.
You know the idea doesn't work yet you keep rambling on about it.
 
LandoComando said:
See every other sport
Especially as a Penn State fan this is beyond absurd
This is old school mentality where teams need to be undefeated. Teams improve as the year goes on. The more teams in the playoffs the better because teams can fight for seeding as opposed yo being 6-2 while losing to two top 5 teams and you have nothing left to play for other than pride.
You know the idea doesn't work yet you keep rambling on about it.
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I'm sure there's a way to add some teams that doesn't include the eye test and is known before the season starts. All ten conference champions must be included. Eye test is for tournament seeding only.

Oh, at the end of the day the only thing every team has to play for is pride. The idea works fine for all those with a open mind who enjoy solving problems. Closed minded problem creators won't ever get it.
 
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Agoodnap said:
I'm sure there's a way to add some teams that doesn't include the eye test and is known before the season starts. All ten conference champions must be included. Eye test is for tournament seeding only.

Oh, at the end of the day the only thing every team has to play for is pride. The idea works fine for all those with a open mind who enjoy solving problems. Closed minded problem creators won't ever get it.
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Fcs doesn’t include all conference champs.

Mandate the Mac champ gets a spot and you just guarantee the p5 split and then all five conference champs at that new level will get a spot and you can be happy I guess.
 
Agoodnap said:
I'm sure there's a way to add some teams that doesn't include the eye test and is known before the season starts. All ten conference champions must be included. Eye test is for tournament seeding only.

Oh, at the end of the day the only thing every team has to play for is pride. The idea works fine for all those with a open mind who enjoy solving problems. Closed minded problem creators won't ever get it.
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All 10 are fine if you add 14 more teams to that which you aren't.
 
Agoodnap said:
How would you pick the additional 14 teams? No eye test allowed.
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In what college sport aren't teams chosen my a committee?
You're basically saying Toledo is more deserving than TCU and Ohio Stage because you're unable to apply logic and realize not all conferences are created equal. It would be like if Ohio U got in over Penn State. Ohio is better because they won the MAC despite us killing them.
College sports need a selection committee. See volleyball hockey basketball soccer...the list is never ending.
 
LandoComando said:
In what college sport aren't teams chosen my a committee?
You're basically saying Toledo is more deserving than TCU and Ohio Stage because you're unable to apply logic and realize not all conferences are created equal. It would be like if Ohio U got in over Penn State. Ohio is better because they won the MAC despite us killing them.
College sports need a selection committee. See volleyball hockey basketball soccer...the list is never ending.
Click to expand...
I never said anything you've stated. Simply put, all conference champions get into the playoffs.

Now, answer my question. What rules would you propose to get an additional 14 teams into the tournament? Eye test is only allowed for seeding.
 
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LandoComando said:
They weren't when they previously played. Things change over time. You're acting as though the outcome I'd determined by a prior game. It isn't. Bama would destroy LSU if they played again. Flukes happen. We'll eventually get to 24 or 28 playoff teams or see FBS break into 2 levels and it will be amazing
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I have no real interest in arguing with you, but I find it pretty shocking that this all nets out that you are in favor of the "look test" over winning because "things change" over a few weeks during a football season.
To each their own I guess. The great thing about most sports is that they're objective. We all complain when a referee makes a subjective call affecting the objective outcome. Everyone said we need a CFP to make it objective, and replace the subjective system of polls. To now hear the idea that winning is less important than the look test, is well, pretty surprising.
I have no real interest in a sport that makes subjectivity a core principle in determining championships. If I did, I'd watch ice skating instead of football...maybe some diving. JMO, but I'd much rather have a champion of champions vs retreads of already decided match-ups. Imagine if we got to live "The game" 3 times in a season. Compelling!
 
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Agoodnap said:
I never said anything you've stated. Simply put, all conference champions get into the playoffs.

Now, answer my question. What rules would you propose to get an additional 14 teams into the tournament? Eye test is only allowed for seeding.
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Same as every other NCAA sport. It will be a committee selecting them. You can't just say 3 from the SEC, 3 from the Big Ten, etc because conferences will vary on strength. Sometimes the Big Ten and SEC should get 6 of the 14 at large bids sometimes more sometimes less. All teams have resumes to be evaluated by.
 
heckmans said:
I have no real interest in arguing with you, but I find it pretty shocking that this all nets out that you are in favor of the "look test" over winning because "things change" over a few weeks during a football season.
To each their own I guess. The great thing about most sports is that they're objective. We all complain when a referee makes a subjective call affecting the objective outcome. Everyone said we need a CFP to make it objective, and replace the subjective system of polls. To now hear the idea that winning is less important than the look test, is well, pretty surprising.
I have no real interest in a sport that makes subjectivity a core principle in determining championships. If I did, I'd watch ice skating instead of football...maybe some diving. JMO, but I'd much rather have a champion of champions vs retreads of already decided match-ups. Imagine if we got to live "The game" 3 times in a season. Compelling!
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But hasn't football always been subjective?
Like Nebraska being named the champs in 1994
We see a 3rd matchup of teams in the NFL quite often with the expansion of playoffs but CCGs shouldn't exist if the playoffs expand.
It just doesn't make sense to say 8-5 Toledo should be in but Ohio State, TCU, Alabama, Tennessee, Penn State shouldn't with much better records simply because they play in a stronger conference.
The point of a regular season in almost all sports is simply to determine who gets to play in the post-season. A 24 team playoff includes 10 conf champs and will let the best team win it.
 
LandoComando said:
But hasn't football always been subjective?
Like Nebraska being named the champs in 1994
We see a 3rd matchup of teams in the NFL quite often with the expansion of playoffs but CCGs shouldn't exist if the playoffs expand.
It just doesn't make sense to say 8-5 Toledo should be in but Ohio State, TCU, Alabama, Tennessee, Penn State shouldn't with much better records simply because they play in a stronger conference.
The point of a regular season in almost all sports is simply to determine who gets to play in the post-season. A 24 team playoff includes 10 conf champs and will let the best team win it.
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[But hasn't football always been subjective? Like Nebraska being named the champs in 1994]
Yes, that is what everyone said we need to get away from

[It just doesn't make sense to say 8-5 Toledo should be in]
FWIW, nothing I ever stated suggested that every FBS conference champ should be in a playoff.
Agreed that CCGs need to end after next year when the playoff starts, but if there is a 24 team playoff, the regular season needs to shrink. 11 games plus 6 rounds of playoffs is too much, but good luck getting trying to get conferences to reduce conference games or teams to reduce payday games.
 
heckmans said:
[But hasn't football always been subjective? Like Nebraska being named the champs in 1994]
Yes, that is what everyone said we need to get away from

[It just doesn't make sense to say 8-5 Toledo should be in]
FWIW, nothing I ever stated suggested that every FBS conference champ should be in a playoff.
Agreed that CCGs need to end after next year when the playoff starts, but if there is a 24 team playoff, the regular season needs to shrink. 11 games plus 6 rounds of playoffs is too much, but good luck getting trying to get conferences to reduce conference games or teams to reduce payday games.
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No people including Paterno said we needed a playoff
FCS does 24 without a problem...can easily cut a game because the revenue from the TV contract would significantly jump that.
All conferences champs honestly have to be included or it's a sham IMO
 
LandoComando said:
You're worried about almost 30 years ago?
They didn't care about us because even then we were bitching about the Big Ten
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And running roughshod over them. That's the reason they didn't want us to win the national championship. They were afraid we were gonna dominate the conference regularly. And if somebody robbed you of your home 25 years ago, you'd be OK with that now?
 
Waltwam said:
And running roughshod over them. That's the reason they didn't want us to win the national championship. They were afraid we were gonna dominate the conference regularly. And if somebody robbed you of your home 25 years ago, you'd be OK with that now?
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You just compared this to someone robbing your house?
But, yes, I'd be over that
Most of that was just about getting Tom his first title.
 
LandoComando said:
I'm not sure you're over it if you're making it about us and not Tom being handed his first title. JMO
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Every time they have a countdown of greatest teams in history, they remind me that 94 team never won the national championship. I loved that Joe had championship rings made for that team. If I remember correctly, every player on that offense went pro!
 
Waltwam said:
Every time they have a countdown of greatest teams in history, they remind me that 94 team never won the national championship. I loved that Joe had championship rings made for that team. If I remember correctly, every player on that offense went pro!
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And it would have been amazing if there was a playoff that yet--we could have seen that team 3-4 more times.
 
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