WrestleStat Rankings | Week 12 2022

[andegre]

Hey WrestleStat fans. Here's our latest installment of rankings. We actually had these ready yesterday, but I forgot to post about it....

Also included in the RPI rankings are the official Coaches Rankings that were released last week.

Wrestler Rankings | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/starters

Dual Rankings | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/dual

Tournament Rankings | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/tournament

RPI Rankings | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/rpi

Stat Leaders | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/statistical

 

[dsites52]

Hey WrestleStat fans. Here's our latest installment of rankings. We actually had these ready yesterday, but I forgot to post about it....

Also included in the RPI rankings are the official Coaches Rankings that were released last week.

Wrestler Rankings | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/starters

Dual Rankings | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/dual

Tournament Rankings | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/tournament

RPI Rankings | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/rpi

Stat Leaders | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/statistical

Penn State #1 tourney rankings……so you’re saying there’s a chance?

 

[82bordeaux]

Joey Olivieri got jobbed!

 

[The Japanese Whizzer]

Brooks and Kerkvliet are closing the gap on guys they beat this year!

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Brooks and Kerkvliet are closing the gap on guys they beat this year!

Yep. Makes sense.

 

[mcpat]

Caffey up to #3.

 

[SUPERTODD]

Brooks and Kerkvliet are closing the gap on guys they beat this year!

Brooks is behind a guy he beat and has beaten numbers 4 and 6 on the list. The rankings make no sense at all.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Brooks is behind a guy he beat and has beaten numbers 4 and 6 on the list. The rankings make no sense at all.

Sure they do. WS rankings, in their current form, are more of a career ranking, instead of a week-to-week ranking. Brooks has 51 matches, while Amine has 134. So, Amine has a lot more wins that add on to his ELO score than Brooks.

Now, Brooks' ELO jumped 11 points with his two wins over highly ranked competition this week. Wins over Assad (11) and Romero (5) will likely push him into #1, especially because Amine's highest ranked remaining opponent is #12.

If you think of WS as lifetime rankings, instead of yet another human, weekly ranking, you'll be a lot less frustrated.

 

[Crusher1950]

How can the returning national champs be undefeated and still not ranked # 1? I guess politics are in sports also

 

[pawrestlersintn]

How can the returning national champs be undefeated and still not ranked # 1? I guess politics are in sports also

LMFAO. Alright, this is the hottest take, yet. IT'S POLITICAL!

I do want to thank you, though. This will give me a chuckle all day long.

 

[PaJules]

^^^^^^^^^
You must forgive Crusher, he is hungover from his Micah Parsons rookie of the year celebration.

 

[86PSUPaul]

It’s groundhog day again, wrestlestat ranking come out, people complain, PAW tries to educate them. Honestly I give PAW props for continuing to fight the good fight!

 

[82bordeaux]

live action shot of @pawrestlersintn

 

[dbldoofus]

I would love to see Wrestlestat results with just one or two seasons of data.
One may not be enough.
Data are fun

 

[PSU Mike]

Sure they do. WS rankings, in their current form, are more of a career ranking, instead of a week-to-week ranking. Brooks has 51 matches, while Amine has 134. So, Amine has a lot more wins that add on to his ELO score than Brooks.

Now, Brooks' ELO jumped 11 points with his two wins over highly ranked competition this week. Wins over Assad (11) and Romero (5) will likely push him into #1, especially because Amine's highest ranked remaining opponent is #12.

If you think of WS as lifetime rankings, instead of yet another human, weekly ranking, you'll be a lot less frustrated.

112-22 or 49-2. Okay. If there were a guy whose record was 150-80 he’d be the runaway #1 I suppose.

 

[KCLion]

112-22 or 49-2. Okay. If there were a guy whose record was 150-80 he’d be the runaway #1 I suppose.

I believe it’s 50-1.

 

[PSU Mike]

I believe it’s 50-1.

I used total record as shown on Wrestlestat since that what was being debated, taking it as given.

 

[donboy6499]

112-22 or 49-2. Okay. If there were a guy whose record was 150-80 he’d be the runaway #1 I suppose.

We’ll have that answer in 2025 when Micic’s eligibility runs out.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

112-22 or 49-2. Okay. If there were a guy whose record was 150-80 he’d be the runaway #1 I suppose.

Wrestlestat would always pick Eggum to beat Cael - it employed the “closing the gap” multiplier effect to the algorithm

 

[CoolBean]

Can anyone explain how Drake Ayala rank ahead of Patrick McKee?
Ayala lost 3 times to McKee this year, they have about the same record but yet, Ayala is 6th and McKee is 12th.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

112-22 or 49-2. Okay. If there were a guy whose record was 150-80 he’d be the runaway #1 I suppose.

Well, first of all, there's not, so there's that. But, it would depend upon who his wins and losses were against, and their respective ELO at the time of the matches.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Can anyone explain how Drake Ayala rank ahead of Patrick McKee?
Ayala lost 3 times to McKee this year, they have about the same record but yet, Ayala is 6th and McKee is 12th.

Yes, I can.

 

[86PSUPaul]

Yes, I can.

But do you want to? Heck, we know you want to otherwise you wouldn't keep riding that horse!

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Can anyone explain how Drake Ayala rank ahead of Patrick McKee?
Ayala lost 3 times to McKee this year, they have about the same record but yet, Ayala is 6th and McKee is 12th.

Well, it’s because WS is more of a career ranking, instead of a week-to-week ranking. Thus, given Ayala’s longer career and more data points, the answer is obvious.

Oh wait …

 

[GogglesPaizano]

I would love to see Wrestlestat results with just one or two seasons of data.
One may not be enough.
Data are fun

Agree, cap the database at 18-24 months max. What a guy did 3 years ago can be far too misleading given the growth of some wrestlers.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Well, it’s because WS is more of a career ranking, instead of a week-to-week ranking. Thus, given Ayala’s longer career and more data points, the answer is obvious.

Oh wait …

Wrong-o, but you knew that. You should know the answer by now.

 

[ss7]

Agree, cap the database at 18-24 months max. What a guy did 3 years ago can be far too misleading given the growth of some wrestlers.

Then you'd end up with guys returning from redshirt being severely under ranked. And in our current situation, guys like Yianni, Micic, Suriano out of the rankings all together to start the season.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

But do you want to? Heck, we know you want to otherwise you wouldn't keep riding that horse!

Oh, you know I'm going there.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Wrong-o, but you knew that. You should know the answer by now.

 

[RoarLions1]

Not that this will help, but I'll go with the physics professor, with tweaking by andegre.

Elo rating system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[I.J.W.T.]

Hey WrestleStat fans. Here's our latest installment of rankings. We actually had these ready yesterday, but I forgot to post about it....

Also included in the RPI rankings are the official Coaches Rankings that were released last week.

Wrestler Rankings | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/starters

Dual Rankings | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/dual

Tournament Rankings | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/tournament

RPI Rankings | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/rpi

Stat Leaders | https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/statistical

GARBAGE. Take it out to the curb.

 

[RoarLions1]

GARBAGE. Take it out to the curb.

Lame. At least attempt to understand the model before posting. Choosing to ignore the model and not posting anything is fine too.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Can anyone explain how Drake Ayala rank ahead of Patrick McKee?
Ayala lost 3 times to McKee this year, they have about the same record but yet, Ayala is 6th and McKee is 12th.

Okay, there are a couple of things going on here. First, I have to make sure that you understand that WS rankings are 100% math. You do know that, correct?

Years ago when WS started, it took seemingly forever for an outstanding freshman to make his way up the rankings. PSU fans clicked on Zain week after week, and, by damned, he's special, and should be ranked higher, after taking out Streibler. WS listened to the bitching, moaning, whining, crying, and complaining, and tweaked the math, so that good freshman would reach their likely ELO equilibrium sooner.

So, Ayala comes along, and goes 13-4, and has the advantage of the freshman multiplier. His losses to McKee don't hurt him, as much as wins over 10, 17 and 19 help him, because politics, er, I mean because that's how the ELO math works. So, that's why he is where he is, despite the three losses to McKee.

So, what about McKee? Well, he's a good, not great wrestler. He has had a number of good wins, but, man, he has taken some baffling losses. Rider's Tropea? His other downfall had been losses to guys that, at the time of the loss, were ranked low, compared to their current rankings.

Will Ayala have a career to back up the current 6? Who knows? That's why they don't wrestle on paper, which is what everyone should think when they're looking at any rankings.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

I'm going to look around for chess message boards, and see if they bitch as much about ELO as wrestling fans do.

 

[RoarLions1]

I'm going to look around for chess message boards, and see if they bitch as much about ELO as wrestling fans do.

Ha, found one!

 

[82bordeaux]

GARBAGE. Take it out to the curb.

 

[I.J.W.T.]

Lame. At least attempt to understand the model before posting. Choosing to ignore the model and not posting anything is fine too.

I tried to understand the model, but I see 3 of our 4 defending national champions, who are currently undefeated, ranked 2nd, 3rd, and 4th - I am entitled to my opinion about said model. You don't need to agree with me.

 

[SLUPSU]

Okay, there are a couple of things going on here. First, I have to make sure that you understand that WS rankings are 100% math. You do know that, correct?

Years ago when WS started, it took seemingly forever for an outstanding freshman to make his way up the rankings. PSU fans clicked on Zain week after week, and, by damned, he's special, and should be ranked higher, after taking out Streibler. WS listened to the bitching, moaning, whining, crying, and complaining, and tweaked the math, so that good freshman would reach their likely ELO equilibrium sooner.

So, Ayala comes along, and goes 13-4, and has the advantage of the freshman multiplier. His losses to McKee don't hurt him, as much as wins over 10, 17 and 19 help him, because politics, er, I mean because that's how the ELO math works. So, that's why he is where he is, despite the three losses to McKee.

So, what about McKee? Well, he's a good, not great wrestler. He has had a number of good wins, but, man, he has taken some baffling losses. Rider's Tropea? His other downfall had been losses to guys that, at the time of the loss, were ranked low, compared to their current rankings.

Will Ayala have a career to back up the current 6? Who knows? That's why they don't wrestle on paper, which is what everyone should think when they're looking at any rankings.

Why is it that you find yourself repeatedly defending and explaining (rationalizing?) a ranking system that still doesn't work very well? GIGO.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Why is it that you find yourself repeatedly defending and explaining (rationalizing?) a ranking system that still doesn't work very well? GIGO.

It works perfectly fine for what it is currently designed for. It's the people that don't understand what it's designed for that have a problem, not me, nor WS.

BTW, have you donated to WS, for the massive amount of great stuff they have on their website?

 

[SLUPSU]

It works perfectly fine for what it is currently designed for. It's the people that don't understand what it's designed for that have a problem, not me, nor WS.

BTW, have you donated to WS, for the massive amount of great stuff they have on their website?

I understand that it doesn't work very well the way it's designed, why do you so easily accept the flawed design as "perfectly fine"? Do you have a financial interest in WS?