15-year anniversary of Cael's hiring

[AgSurfer]

I'm probably splitting hairs here a little bit, but at the time that Cael was hired at Penn State, the general feeling at PSU was that we could be doing a lot better than what we had shown the last 10 years or so. So I think that the general goal at that time was not to produce an unrivaled powerhouse, but more to develop a better program that was living up to its potential. That's where the magic came in. Cael must have seen a much higher potential for Penn State than most of us expected at the time. It also seems that he convinced at least some of the people who flew out to interview him that a national championship team was possible. But at that time, these goals could only be viewed as possibilities, not guarantees. Everyone, including me, was pretty excited that Sanderson got hired for the job, but there's no way I could have expected 11 national team titles in 13 seasons. Even though it's a reality today, it would have seemed like a fairy tale wish back in 2009.

 

[Pennstate1985]

The idea Cael "ran" from Iowa at Iowa State is hilarious. He didn't beat Iowa his first few years because he hadn't established his current reputation yet as a coach, which allowed Brands cleaned up on a rare deep well of blue chip local recruits before leaving VT to get a double recruiting class. David Taylor was the catalyst for Cael's elite recruiting.

He left Iowa State mainly because yes the geography of PA would allow a much easier inflow of HS talent (I'm not sure there is a single coach that likes the recruiting aspect of the game and whatever makes it easier is ideal) and also because he didn't sense Iowa State would give him long-term support to sustain what he has. Mainly committing to pay Casey and Cody like Head Coaches one day so other schools can't pilfer them. Cael has a system, a revolving door of his coaches would put a halt to it.

When Cael let his contract expire in 2017 and just didn't get paid for a few months, it was because he was fighting for huge pay raises for Cody and Casey, not his own salary.

Part of the rub for Cael beyond what you've said is that I don't believe ISU shared and/or wanted to fund Cael's vision for where he wanted to take the program. My belief is THAT was the impetus for him contacting PSU. In PSU he found the partner who would share that vision and fund it. And here we are 15 years later. A self-sustaining mecca for national and international competition.

 

[El-Jefe]

I'm probably splitting hairs here a little bit, but at the time that Cael was hired at Penn State, the general feeling at PSU was that we could be doing a lot better than what we had shown the last 10 years or so. So I think that the general goal at that time was not to produce an unrivaled powerhouse, but more to develop a better program that was living up to its potential. That's where the magic came in. Cael must have seen a much higher potential for Penn State than most of us expected at the time. It also seems that he convinced at least some of the people who flew out to interview him that a national championship team was possible. But at that time, these goals could only be viewed as possibilities, not guarantees. Everyone, including me, was pretty excited that Sanderson got hired for the job, but there's no way I could have expected 11 national team titles in 13 seasons. Even though it's a reality today, it would have seemed like a fairy tale wish back in 2009.

Everybody thought the program should be better than it was.

Nobody foresaw the dynasty or the NLWC dominance.

Many thought that Cael would win some titles and be annual contenders. (Probably most of this group saw Koll similarly if Cael didn't come.)

Some were too focused on the regional over the national. Hence "I didn't come here to beat Lehigh."

 

[amattaro]

Interesting that Iowa told him to stop. I guess when your name becomes associated with some aspect with a public institution, they expect you to behave like a respectable adult.

I’m sure @Cstroke is associated with an institution, and that hasn’t slowed him down.

 

[El-Jefe]

Part of the rub for Cael beyond what you've said is that I don't believe ISU shared and/or wanted to fund Cael's vision for where he wanted to take the program. My belief is THAT was the impetus for him contacting PSU. In PSU he found the partner who would share that vision and fund it. And here we are 15 years later. A self-sustaining mecca for national and international competition.

Cael has said he thought of coaching at PSU when he competed at nationals at the BJC. And Cael first contacted PSU before Sunderland left.

So the initial interest was likely more driven by the difference in demographics.

Also, PSU did not actively pursue Cael until he re-emphasized his interest. That doesn't exactly scream shared vision.

Funding and shared vision probably were bigger factors in the final decision, after the discussion with Lubert and company, than in the initial inquiry.

 

[creamery freak]

I'm probably splitting hairs here a little bit, but at the time that Cael was hired at Penn State, the general feeling at PSU was that we could be doing a lot better than what we had shown the last 10 years or so. So I think that the general goal at that time was not to produce an unrivaled powerhouse, but more to develop a better program that was living up to its potential. That's where the magic came in. Cael must have seen a much higher potential for Penn State than most of us expected at the time. It also seems that he convinced at least some of the people who flew out to interview him that a national championship team was possible. But at that time, these goals could only be viewed as possibilities, not guarantees. Everyone, including me, was pretty excited that Sanderson got hired for the job, but there's no way I could have expected 11 national team titles in 13 seasons. Even though it's a reality today, it would have seemed like a fairy tale wish back in 2009.

I've posted this before, but about 5 weeks after Cael was hired, we had him as our guest speaker at the Wmspt Area Nittany Lion booster club. Someone asked why he came to Penn State. Cael smiled and pulled out his wallet. He then said I came here to win National Championships. He added that PA had the best high-school wrestling in the country, and was fertile recruiting ground. Cael also mentioned how technically good the high-school coaching for wrestling was in PA. I believe he had a pretty good plan once he arrived.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Cael has said he thought of coaching at PSU when he competed at nationals at the BJC. And Cael first contacted PSU before Sunderland left.

So the initial interest was likely more driven by the difference in demographics.

Also, PSU did not actively pursue Cael until he re-emphasized his interest. That doesn't exactly scream shared vision.

Funding and shared vision probably were bigger factors in the final decision, after the discussion with Lubert and company, than in the initial inquiry.

I read some time ago that PSU's initial reluctance to engage with Cael was because they assumed that the contact was an attempt by Cael for a stronger negotiating position with ISU.

 

[AgSurfer]

I read some time ago that PSU's initial reluctance to engage with Cael was because they assumed that the contact was an attempt by Cael for a stronger negotiating position with ISU.

That was the story that PSU told the public. The real reason was that Slumlord Bob told some of the PSU admin people that he had secret films of their private activities that he would make public if they started talking to Cael. After they found out he was bluffing, they went ahead and made the contact. I got this info from Spyker so you can take it to the bank. 😁

 

[El-Jefe]

I read some time ago that PSU's initial reluctance to engage with Cael was because they assumed that the contact was an attempt by Cael for a stronger negotiating position with ISU.

True.

What it meant: PSU had a faction unwilling to swing for the fences when they could instead settle for a double. That faction was in power and had to be convinced to take the swing.

(That will probably never change, and isn't limited to athletics.)

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

True.

What it meant: PSU had a faction unwilling to swing for the fences when they could instead settle for a double. That faction was in power and had to be convinced to take the swing.

(That will probably never change, and isn't limited to athletics.)

Not even limited to PSU. That's why "going for the gusto" is so generally admired.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

Damn that looks like Myles Martin in a football uniform.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Cael has said he thought of coaching at PSU when he competed at nationals at the BJC. And Cael first contacted PSU before Sunderland left.

So the initial interest was likely more driven by the difference in demographics.

Also, PSU did not actively pursue Cael until he re-emphasized his interest. That doesn't exactly scream shared vision.

Funding and shared vision probably were bigger factors in the final decision, after the discussion with Lubert and company, than in the initial inquiry.

I don't disagree with any of that Jefe. The missing piece for me is what was the beef Cael had with Pollard that would lead an ISU legend to seek employment elsewhere forcefully and without giving his alma mater any chance for response. One can say more fertile ground. One can say more money. I just don't believe those two things ultimately led to his leaving ISU in such a terse manner. He wasn't ever going to stay. He was already the highest paid coach in the country at the time and had a very lucrative camp arrangement. He was a successful coach who had just snagged DT and MB. Something else was in play to make him pick up the phone. In my long career, I only ever did that once, and like Cael, it worked out. I did it for two reasons. Better opportunity(recruiting) and a better management situation in which I could thrive. That's why I believe Cael was either turned down on the RTC side or ISU was going to cut back on camps, or policy differences.

 

[Cstroke]

I’m sure @Cstroke is associated with an institution, and that hasn’t slowed him down.

I've had a few close calls with some institutions..

 

[Pennstate1985]

I've had a few close calls with some institutions..

Judging by your avatar, mental institutions can only hold you for so long. Know your rights!!!

 

[El-Jefe]

I don't disagree with any of that Jefe. The missing piece for me is what was the beef Cael had with Pollard that would lead an ISU legend to seek employment elsewhere forcefully and without giving his alma mater any chance for response. One can say more fertile ground. One can say more money. I just don't believe those two things ultimately led to his leaving ISU in such a terse manner. He wasn't ever going to stay. He was already the highest paid coach in the country at the time and had a very lucrative camp arrangement. He was a successful coach who had just snagged DT and MB. Something else was in play to make him pick up the phone. In my long career, I only ever did that once, and like Cael, it worked out. I did it for two reasons. Better opportunity(recruiting) and a better management situation in which I could thrive. That's why I believe Cael was either turned down on the RTC side or ISU was going to cut back on camps, or policy differences.

Did Cael really give Pollard no opportunity for response?

 

[Pennstate1985]

Did Cael really give Pollard no opportunity for response?

The same posters on CycloneFanatic who had the very best information before Cael officially left ISU were also the same people that said ISU was not given an opportunity to counter. That happens all the time so not surprising if true. If Cael really wanted out, then what would be the point of talking further. It's more honorable to just tell them your mind is already made up and no further discussion is required.

I just don't believe recruiting hotbed was the only reason. Cael has an entreprenurial spirit, and unnecessary barriers to success are particularly irksome to that type of person. There was a barrier there somewhere. We will never know what it was though. In a previous post you intimated that universities can be slow to change. I think some of that happened on the other end of that affair too.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

I just don't believe those two things ultimately led to his leaving ISU in such a terse manner.

As, after 23 years, I was leaving the company who hired me straight out of PSU for new employment having given my notice, the head of HR told me the top two reasons people change jobs are: 1) they hate their boss, and 2) the work is not challenging. Then he asked me which reason was mine.

Sometimes neither of those two are the reason. Sometimes the person and the organization evolve along different paths. Sometimes when we take time to lift our heads from our work we get a glimpse into all that's going on. And sometimes then we see ourselves as no longer a happy fit where we are.

There's no need for fault finding or hand wringing with this kind of change. I believe they're wholly natural and quite healthy.

 

[Pennstate1985]

As, after 23 years, I was leaving the company who hired me straight out of PSU for new employment having given my notice, the head of HR told me the top two reasons people change jobs are: 1) they hate their boss, and 2) the work is not challenging. Then he asked me which reason was mine.

Sometimes neither of those two are the reason. Sometimes the person and the organization evolve along different paths. Sometimes when we take time to lift our heads from our work we get a glimpse into all that's going on. And sometimes then we see ourselves as no longer a happy fit where we are.

There's no need for fault finding or hand wringing with this kind of change. I believe they're wholly natural and quite healthy.

I agree completely. A non happy fit works for me. I'm not fault finding either. Just interested in the why.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

I agree completely. A non happy fit works for me. I'm not fault finding either. Just interested in the why.

Cael has been interviewed and had articles written. It was reported Cody and Casey thought they should all stay but they'd follow. It was reported Cael prayed on it before deciding. I would say it could be as simple as maximizing happiness.

 

[Delcolion915]

I think we need to declare the day of Caels hiring as a national holiday for all Penn State fans.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

... It was reported Cael prayed on it before deciding...

I have seen the once in an age results, and hear the faith-filled words of our champions. I am totally on board with divine intervention having played a role.

 

[El-Jefe]

I have seen the once in an age results, and hear the faith-filled words of our champions. I am totally on board with divine intervention having played a role.

Or maybe Ira gave him the Reggie White call.

 

[backdrft76]

 

[Delcolion915]

I have seen the once in an age results, and hear the faith-filled words of our champions. I am totally on board with divine intervention having played a role.

Cael doesn't ask advice from God, Cael GIVES advice TO God 😂

 

[District four]

I think we need to declare the day of Caels hiring as a national holiday for all Penn State fans.

There already is one. It's every year the day after nationals

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

I think Cael's mindset in coming to Penn State is summed up perfectly in my sig line.

 

[AgSurfer]

Ok, it’s Conspiracy Theory time once again. The multiple posts on this subject got me thinking and I have a hunch that there was something else involved that isn’t going to be made public. I’m guessing that Cael had some kind of inside information about Penn State. I’m not talking about the general rumblings and rumors that are always going around. It didn’t take too much guesswork to know that a lot of people were feeling frustrated with the lack of good results from Penn State the past few seasons.

I’m guessing that someone who Cael knew pretty well that had really good connections with Penn State told him that there were some serious people who had the right resources and influence who would go all out if they could find the right person to lead the program. That means that he contacted Penn State knowing with a high level of certainty that they would give him whatever support he wanted if he could convince them that he was the right person. That would explain why he didn’t consider any counter offer from ISU.

 

[aalion]

Part of the rub for Cael beyond what you've said is that I don't believe ISU shared and/or wanted to fund Cael's vision for where he wanted to take the program. My belief is THAT was the impetus for him contacting PSU. In PSU he found the partner who would share that vision and fund it. And here we are 15 years later. A self-sustaining mecca for national and international competition.

Cael said as much then and since… the entire RTC concept tied in w the college wrestling room was his vision and PSU gave him the best chance to make it happen.

 

[aalion]

As, after 23 years, I was leaving the company who hired me straight out of PSU for new employment having given my notice, the head of HR told me the top two reasons people change jobs are: 1) they hate their boss, and 2) the work is not challenging.

This has been the mantra of HR departments for decades… for 2 reasons:

1) People in exit interviews are often reluctant to look “shallow” and say their #1 reason was more money. So they downplay it.

2) Claiming money isn’t the reason gives HR and their masters cover for telling everyone else that they pay fairly and the “total rewards” that they receive are more than competitive.

Cael got more money. But he also got everything else he wanted….

And he almost left over PSUs COVId vax mandate so it is clear that there are things that are more important to him than money.

 

[Pennstate1985]

1) People in exit interviews are often reluctant to look “shallow” and say their #1 reason was more money. So they downplay it.

There are many reasons why people leave their jobs. In my experience, reason #1 is NOT more money. It's a bad working environment and/or not feeling like their job matters. In other words, no positive feedback from mngt. If you feel valued at work, you're less likely to leave even for more money. The company I worked for had 12,000 employees and they did a study using an independent outfit to understand its employees. One of the confidential questions was, "if the company could do one thing to make you happier in your job, what would it be". The number one response was feeling appreciated. Money was second or third. Other reasons are that you don't feel your job is secure, you or your family need to go in a direction where your current job can't take you, or that a new job has a better career path.

 

[AgSurfer]

There are many reasons why people leave their jobs. In my experience, reason #1 is NOT more money. It's a bad working environment and/or not feeling like their job matters. In other words, no positive feedback from mngt. If you feel valued at work, you're less likely to leave even for more money. The company I worked for had 12,000 employees and they did a study using an independent outfit to understand its employees. One of the confidential questions was, "if the company could do one thing to make you happier in your job, what would it be". The number one response was feeling appreciated. Money was second or third. Other reasons are that you don't feel your job is secure, you or your family need to go in a direction where your current job can't take you, or that a new job has a better career path.

People don't always leave jobs because they are unhappy with some aspect of their employment - money, work environment, etc. Sometimes it's more that they have a vision of where they want to be at some future date and they don't see a way to make that happen at their current job even though the pay and work environment are good. In 1982, my brother had a nice job developing software at a company on the East coast. He and his family were reasonably happy with their current situation but he came across an opportunity with a little company of about 100 employees in the Northwest that he felt just had more potential over the long run. So he decided to follow his instincts and accepted a position with the smaller firm. Well the guy who hired him was named Steve Ballmer and the company was Microsoft. You can guess how that worked out! Looking at what happened with Penn State after Cael took the head coach position, it's pretty clear that he was following the same kind of intuition.

 

[aalion]

There are many reasons why people leave their jobs. In my experience, reason #1 is NOT more money. It's a bad working environment and/or not feeling like their job matters. In other words, no positive feedback from mngt. If you feel valued at work, you're less likely to leave even for more money. The company I worked for had 12,000 employees and they did a study using an independent outfit to understand its employees. One of the confidential questions was, "if the company could do one thing to make you happier in your job, what would it be". The number one response was feeling appreciated. Money was second or third. Other reasons are that you don't feel your job is secure, you or your family need to go in a direction where your current job can't take you, or that a new job has a better career path.

Agree there are lots of reasons… and money might not be 1 or 2. I have no idea.

All I know anecdotally is that in working for a huge company for 30+ years, as a consultant serving 50+ companies over those years, is that what people said privately vs what HR claimed in their “surveys” was very different.

Lifestyle and money were the two most often heard over lunch or beers. And it wasn’t close. FWIW.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Agree there are lots of reasons… and money might not be 1 or 2. I have no idea.

All I know anecdotally is that in working for a huge company for 30+ years, as a consultant serving 50+ companies over those years, is that what people said privately vs what HR claimed in their “surveys” was very different.

Lifestyle and money were the two most often heard over lunch or beers. And it wasn’t close. FWIW.

I thought of this later but I bet there is difference between men and women respondents. Not that women don't want to be paid what they are worth, but they seem to have more reasons for making a change beyond money. Just my opinion.

 

[NittanyChris]

To all those who celebrate! 😃

 

[Delcolion915]

View embedded media

To all those who celebrate! 😃

National Holiday. Happy Cael Day everyone!

 

[tullfan68]

LOL Cael can tell the future and read tea leaves like no other,he knew 15 yrs ago how good PSU would be!

 

[smiller229]

I threw a chair to celebrate!

 

[Pennstate1985]

I threw a chair to celebrate!

Did it hit Tom Brands

 

[victorNit1]

Best thing to happen to Penn State athletics since 1966.

Amen. brother