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15-year anniversary of Cael's hiring

AgSurfer said:
Interesting how the tone of the posts progresses. It starts out with total dismissal, then to strong skepticism and finally to signs of fear that the rumors might be true. It would be interesting to read what the same posters said when the news was officially announced.
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Anger alternating between Cael, the AD Pollard, and "too much PSU money in the sport will kill it". Said altruistically of course.
 
AgSurfer said:
Interesting how the tone of the posts progresses. It starts out with total dismissal, then to strong skepticism and finally to signs of fear that the rumors might be true. It would be interesting to read what the same posters said when the news was officially announced.
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That why I scrolled though fifteen pages. Nothing lol
 
It was about as I expected. Fans spending their time expressing their various biased beliefs in the presence of a rumor without any real evidence (i.e., speculating / blaming).

I am pretty confident that there were and are plenty of Iowa State wrestling fans and alumni who knew their personal lives wouldn't be that affected by Cael's departure, would wish him well given the opportunity, and simply moved on. However, such fans rarely engage message boards.
 
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It was 15 pages of posts in just one single day. Then, it just vanished. Throughout the thread, nobody seemed to believe it was happening even as it became clearer and clearer that it was real. The tread actually ended with nobody accepting what had happened. Also if note, was how not a single Iowa Hawkeye fan jumped on the thread. It would REALLY be interesting to find April 15th on the Iowa board and examine their vile takes on it.
 
Delcolion915 said:
It was 15 pages of posts in just one single day. Then, it just vanished. Throughout the thread, nobody seemed to believe it was happening even as it became clearer and clearer that it was real. The tread actually ended with nobody accepting what had happened. Also if note, was how not a single Iowa Hawkeye fan jumped on the thread. It would REALLY be interesting to find April 15th on the Iowa board and examine their vile takes on it.
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The Iowa threads no longer exist. The new board begins in 2015.

There are plenty of other threads on cyclonefanatic from 2009. They are around page 198. The thread I posted ended on 4/16/2009, but plenty of other started on 4/17 where the reality set in. Many, many threads on there if you go look. Lots of anger and finger pointing mostly. Blaming PSU for destroying the sport with money. Blaming the AD. Blaming Cael for being greedy. What you would expect from injured fans.
 
Delcolion915 said:
It was 15 pages of posts in just one single day. Then, it just vanished. Throughout the thread, nobody seemed to believe it was happening even as it became clearer and clearer that it was real. The tread actually ended with nobody accepting what had happened. Also if note, was how not a single Iowa Hawkeye fan jumped on the thread. It would REALLY be interesting to find April 15th on the Iowa board and examine their vile takes on it.
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There are a few hawks in the thread including Spooner and DJK.

anyone else heard a REALLY BAD rumor

If Cael leaves it seems like a pretty clear sign that something is really rotten in the athletic department. Seriously, if we can't keep a guy like this what can we do?
cyclonefanatic.com cyclonefanatic.com
 
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Delcolion915 said:
It was 15 pages of posts in just one single day. Then, it just vanished. Throughout the thread, nobody seemed to believe it was happening even as it became clearer and clearer that it was real. The tread actually ended with nobody accepting what had happened. Also if note, was how not a single Iowa Hawkeye fan jumped on the thread. It would REALLY be interesting to find April 15th on the Iowa board and examine their vile takes on it.
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If RossWB of Black Heart Gold Pants was an example of their attitude at the time, their fanbase viewed Cael as a joke in over his head - no charisma, no coaching chops, etc. There were a few with broad based knowledge of the sport who were worried about his decamping to Pennsylvania, but most were stuck in their very parochial Midwest silos - not aware of how many wrestlers Pa, NJ and NY shipped away for decades.

Boy were they off-base. Their demographic disadvantage is really glaring now as locking down Iowa means really nothing when the 3 states I mentioned produce 10x the elite recruits that their recruiting territory can.

Nil and the portal are changing things, but nothing beats being able to get in the car for an hour or 3 and see your kid wrestle rather than living 800 miles away.
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
15 years ago this coming Tuesday, the first reports started coming out of Iowa State of a ugly rumor circulating. The rest is history. I always enjoy going back on quiet days and reading what people say and think before the fact. I honestly feel bad for the Cyclone fans. We wear our fandom on our sleeves and it's hard when things take a turn for the worse. That said, it was and still is a great day to be a Lion. We are ...

anyone else heard a REALLY BAD rumor

about Cael possibly going to Penn State? No joke, just was asked by another clone fan.
cyclonefanatic.com cyclonefanatic.com
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Boy did they have some wild theories on the amount of money Penn State was going to pay Cael.

What I can’t believe, from Iowa State and the Mid-West wrestling powers in general, is how utterly clueless they are about the strength of PA, NJ, OH and NY high school wrestling. A few brought up the topic, but it was quickly drowned out by it has to be the money. Apparently, they’ve never been interested enough to read the home states, with the most D1 All Americans each year.
 
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Has anybody here seen the Netflix doc on Manchester City's 2022-23 season and their historic treble? Every time I see Cael and Pep Guardiola get interviewed they remind me of each other. I hope that someday Cael allows an all-access film crew into the PSU room to see how he gets so much out of his teams. I know he'd never allow it now but maybe someday like for his last season.
 
FWIW, I don’t think ISU is doing all that bad with Dresser and Metcalf doing the job. They DID manage to edge out the Hawks this year and I think they could have won the dual. I don’t think they are going to catch up with Penn State any time soon, but they are still a really good program.
 
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Chickenman Testa said:
If RossWB of Black Heart Gold Pants was an example of their attitude at the time, their fanbase viewed Cael as a joke in over his head - no charisma, no coaching chops, etc. There were a few with broad based knowledge of the sport who were worried about his decamping to Pennsylvania, but most were stuck in their very parochial Midwest silos - not aware of how many wrestlers Pa, NJ and NY shipped away for decades.

Boy were they off-base. Their demographic disadvantage is really glaring now as locking down Iowa means really nothing when the 3 states I mentioned produce 10x the elite recruits that their recruiting territory can.

Nil and the portal are changing things, but nothing beats being able to get in the car for an hour or 3 and see your kid wrestle rather than living 800 miles away.
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Iowa had 2 problems that the arrogant parts of its fanbase didn't recognize until it was far too late.

The biggest and most obvious was Cael.

The other was other teams finally competing for recruits in B10 states -- as opposed to losing and feeling good about trying. Specifically Ohio State, Michigan, and Missouri. Iowa's recruiting dominance in B10 states has eroded -- they still get their share, but no longer an outsized piece of the pie.
 
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El-Jefe said:
Iowa had 2 problems that the arrogant parts of its fanbase didn't recognize until it was far too late.

The biggest and most obvious was Cael.

The other was other teams finally competing for recruits in B10 states -- as opposed to losing and feeling good about trying. Specifically Ohio State, Michigan, and Missouri. Iowa's recruiting dominance in B10 states has eroded -- they still get their share, but no longer an outsized piece of the pie.
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Excellent point. 👍
 
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BruceK-PSU83 said:
Speaking of Black Heart Gold Pants, if for some strange reason I start to feel the tiniest bit bad for the fate of Iowa wrestling, I think back to this article from the 2010 PSU-Iowa dual meet, which is dripping with loathing and arrogance.

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Revenge is a dish best served cold. This guy may have poked the bear a bit too much.
 
The frustration leading up to Cael hiring was palpable. PSU did not have a coach that could consolidate the top PA talent. With the most Division I Wrestling Programs of any state and coaches like John Smith cherry picking guys like Coleman Scott and Jordan Oliver, the talent was too spread out for the program to benefit from the strength of PA wrestling and nationally, recruiting was not good at all other than some moderate success in bordering states.

Koll was the leading candidate and a lot of people including myself would have been happy to have him; Sanderson to PSU kind of came out of left field. The first time I honestly thought it could happen was when posters that were on campus were reporting Cael sightings. It was what were hoping for, a huge name that could finally consolidate the top PA talent into one room. Never did I think things would get so big that PSU would be considered a dynasty and be cherry picking the nation while skipping out on some really good PA wrestlers because they weren't needed.

It's a real shame themat forum was deleted, that's where you would find the best reactions at the time including a lot of Iowa fans that crapped all over PSU fans optimism. General sentiment was that Cael was not a good coach and that PA wrestling wasn't strong enough to really make a difference. Fans from other bases had a mixed reaction with some believing he would have a big impact.
 
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Who could have forecast just the degree of success that Cael's hiring led to?

The number of titles, the number of dominant wrestlers, and then the development of training centers both for young wrestlers and Olympic hopefuls...to the point where State College and Central PA is the absolute heart of all levels of wrestling in the USA?
 
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AgSurfer said:
Are you sure about that? There are a few diehard guys like Vodka who refuse to admit the obvious.
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You do on occasion but they are generally laughed at. No serious fan of the sport challenges Cael's credentials like they used to even five years ago. Many thought he was an idiot for leaving ISU because ISU's legacy was making Cael better than he was and that he was going to get exposed.
 
AgSurfer said:
By Slumlord Bob, do you mean Telford?
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No, I would never be so rude about a real man like Mr Telford. I mean Bob Nicolls, aka Slumlord Bob.

Wrestling room to be named for Nicolls family

The proposed Goschke Family Wrestling Training Center will be equipped with a 13,000-square-foot wrestling room, a strength training area, team locker rooms, and athletic training facilities. The facility also will include staff offices, a student-athlete lounge, recruiting meeting rooms, and a street-level hall of champions dedicated to the success of Iowa wrestlers of past, present, and future.

The new wrestling room will double the amount of training space and will allow Iowa’s collegiate wrestlers and members of the Hawkeye Wrestling Club to train at the highest level. That space will be named in honor of Bob Nicolls and Kathy Nicolls of Franktown, Colorado.

Bob Nicolls has been a passionate Iowa wrestling fan since his time as a student, and the couple are generous supporters of Iowa’s track and field and wrestling teams, as well as the UI Department of Accounting. To honor the Nicolls’ $7 million gift to the Carver Circle campaign, the wrestling room will be named in their honor.

“Bob Nicolls got this campaign started,” says Brands. “He stepped up right away, brought others to the table, and never wavered in his commitment and drive to help us get this project done. He’s been the lead volunteer on this project and a great friend to our program and me. We are honored to have the Nicolls’ name on our wrestling room. It can’t be anyone else. That’s how important Bob Nicolls was to getting this campaign done.”
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
No, I would never be so rude about a real man like Mr Telford. I mean Bob Nicolls, aka Slumlord Bob.

Wrestling room to be named for Nicolls family

The proposed Goschke Family Wrestling Training Center will be equipped with a 13,000-square-foot wrestling room, a strength training area, team locker rooms, and athletic training facilities. The facility also will include staff offices, a student-athlete lounge, recruiting meeting rooms, and a street-level hall of champions dedicated to the success of Iowa wrestlers of past, present, and future.

The new wrestling room will double the amount of training space and will allow Iowa’s collegiate wrestlers and members of the Hawkeye Wrestling Club to train at the highest level. That space will be named in honor of Bob Nicolls and Kathy Nicolls of Franktown, Colorado.

Bob Nicolls has been a passionate Iowa wrestling fan since his time as a student, and the couple are generous supporters of Iowa’s track and field and wrestling teams, as well as the UI Department of Accounting. To honor the Nicolls’ $7 million gift to the Carver Circle campaign, the wrestling room will be named in their honor.

“Bob Nicolls got this campaign started,” says Brands. “He stepped up right away, brought others to the table, and never wavered in his commitment and drive to help us get this project done. He’s been the lead volunteer on this project and a great friend to our program and me. We are honored to have the Nicolls’ name on our wrestling room. It can’t be anyone else. That’s how important Bob Nicolls was to getting this campaign done.”
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Slumlord Bob's posts are so bad that if I posted any number of them here, I'd probably get banned. You may infer what you will from that.
 
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AgSurfer said:
Interesting that Iowa told him to stop. I guess when your name becomes associated with some aspect with a public institution, they expect you to behave like a respectable adult.
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He may not be posting any longer but I guarantee that he still isn't respectable. At times he was worse than weh8st8hawk, and I think most of us know who visit there what vitriole that poster is capable of spewing. They gave him the name because he contributed $7M, but I'm sure they are uneasy about who he is.
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
15 years ago this coming Tuesday, the first reports started coming out of Iowa State of a ugly rumor circulating. The rest is history. I always enjoy going back on quiet days and reading what people say and think before the fact. I honestly feel bad for the Cyclone fans. We wear our fandom on our sleeves and it's hard when things take a turn for the worse. That said, it was and still is a great day to be a Lion. We are ...

anyone else heard a REALLY BAD rumor

about Cael possibly going to Penn State? No joke, just was asked by another clone fan.
cyclonefanatic.com cyclonefanatic.com
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This post cracked me up!

"I dont see it...PSU would be hiring a guy in name only...no offense to Cael but he has yet to accomplish anything major as a coach...he will someday I'm sure but hes hasnt yet....ISU is a pretty good gig to have and if he went to Penn State he would be under more pressure to win since hes not from that family so to speak"
 
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johnstownsteel said:
This post cracked me up!

"I dont see it...PSU would be hiring a guy in name only...no offense to Cael but he has yet to accomplish anything major as a coach...he will someday I'm sure but hes hasnt yet....ISU is a pretty good gig to have and if he went to Penn State he would be under more pressure to win since hes not from that family so to speak"
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At the time that person made that post, there may have been at least a little truth in what they said. Now, 15 years later, our benefit of hindsight reveals that someone at Penn State had very good foresight.
 
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AgSurfer said:
At the time that person made that post, there may have been at least a little truth in what they said. Now, 15 years later, our benefit of hindsight reveals that someone at Penn State had very good foresight.
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I disagree with the assertion that Cael did not accomplish anything major while coach at ISU.

"In three years at Iowa State, Sanderson's teams went 44-10, won three conference crowns, qualified all 30 wrestlers for nationals, earned 15 All-American awards and two individual national titles. Iowa State finished second, fifth and third at NCAAs during his time as head coach,"

In the last three NCAAs (2022-2024) for Iowa, Tom Brands has finished 3rd, 2nd, and 5th. Same as Cael's first three years. In that same 2022-24 time period, Iowa has had 15 AAs and Zero national champs, as compared to 15 and 2 for Cael while at ISU.

So Cael had a better three year stretch at ISU than Tom Brands has had at Iowa these last several years. And Tom Brands has been coaching for 20 years at this point. I know that wasn't your overall point, which was that by "Iowa standards" Cael was deficient, but in reality he was doing a great job there.
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
I disagree with the assertion that Cael did not accomplish anything major while coach at ISU.

"In three years at Iowa State, Sanderson's teams went 44-10, won three conference crowns, qualified all 30 wrestlers for nationals, earned 15 All-American awards and two individual national titles. Iowa State finished second, fifth and third at NCAAs during his time as head coach,"

In the last three NCAAs (2022-2024) for Iowa, Tom Brands has finished 3rd, 2nd, and 5th. Same as Cael's first three years. In that same 2022-24 time period, Iowa has had 15 AAs and Zero national champs, as compared to 15 and 2 for Cael while at ISU.

So Cael had a better three year stretch at ISU than Tom Brands has had at Iowa these last several years. And Tom Brands has been coaching for 20 years at this point. I know that wasn't your overall point, which was that by "Iowa standards" Cael was deficient, but in reality he was doing a great job there.
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All of that is true. And IMO their claim worded differently would be: Cael did that with Douglas' guys.

That is partly true. Cael had some of his own recruits, but had not coached thru an entire recruiting cycle.

OTOH, Cael's 3 teams finished higher than any of Douglas' later teams -- improvement beyond year-to-year attrition elsewhere. And Cael had landed Taylor and Brown.
 
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The idea Cael "ran" from Iowa at Iowa State is hilarious. He didn't beat Iowa his first few years because he hadn't established his current reputation yet as a coach, which allowed Brands cleaned up on a rare deep well of blue chip local recruits before leaving VT to get a double recruiting class. David Taylor was the catalyst for Cael's elite recruiting.

He left Iowa State mainly because yes the geography of PA would allow a much easier inflow of HS talent (I'm not sure there is a single coach that likes the recruiting aspect of the game and whatever makes it easier is ideal) and also because he didn't sense Iowa State would give him long-term support to sustain what he has. Mainly committing to pay Casey and Cody like Head Coaches one day so other schools can't pilfer them. Cael has a system, a revolving door of his coaches would put a halt to it.

When Cael let his contract expire in 2017 and just didn't get paid for a few months, it was because he was fighting for huge pay raises for Cody and Casey, not his own salary.
 
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