1st time in 145 years! Winning horse disqualified.

[Hotshoe]

I’ve been to many tracks throughout the country and watched 1000’s of races and this decision was nothing short of Robbery. The stewards at Churchill Downs owe Jason Servis, Luis Saez and Maximum Security an apology and should immediately reverse what is clearly a flawed decision. The bumping happen at the top of the stretch with a 1/4 mile left in the race, this gave Country House plenty of time to run down Maximum Security who by the way, set the pace and went wire to wire in the slop!! I anticipate horse racing fans at Pimlico to make their voices heard. If Maximum Security wins the Preakness the scene at Belmont particularly the paddock might get a little ugly.

Lol, bump. If War of Will trips off the hock or cannon bone of Maximum, we're praying people aren't dead today as well as horses. He crossed in front of 2 horses when he spooked. Saez himself says he spooked at the crowd. If you saw the stills, there is no question of a foul. War of Will was forced to check up. He interfered, plain and simple.

Prat claimed that Maximum Security ducked out in the final turn and forced several horses to steady, including Long Range Toddy, whose jockey, Jon Court, also lodged an objection.

“I had to stop very abruptly,” Court said.

War of Will came perilously close to clipping heels with Maximum Security, which could have caused a chain-reaction accident.

“I checked pretty hard when the seven (Maximum Security) came out as far as he did,” said Tyler Gaffalione, aboard War of Will.

Mott said War of Will and Long Range Toddy “lost all chance” to win.

 

[RU31trap]

I could be wrong but I’m sure that Gerry West will make a formal appeal to the state racing commission and most likely pursue legal options if decision is not overturned. As I said in previous posts, if Maximum Security wins at the Preakness and both horses show up for the Belmont the atmosphere will be electric. This is the first year I’m missing the Preakness in 12 years for a dam social event.

 

[LeatherHelmets]

I could be wrong but I’m sure that Gerry West will make a formal appeal to the state racing commission and most likely pursue legal options if decision is not overturned. As I said in previous posts, if Maximum Security wins at the Preakness and both horses show up for the Belmont the atmosphere will be electric. This is the first year I’m missing the Preakness in 12 years for a dam social event.

I thought that horse races were social events.

 

[RU31trap]

I thought that horse races were social events.

Work related

 

[Connorpozlee]

Jon White liked him because War of Will supposedly likes the track at Churchill Downs. I’m not looking for an argument but realistically speaking why would he like a horse who had a physical issue? If the horse was comprised in the Louisiana derby March 23, 2019 why in Gods name would Jon White (who is knowledgeable) think that he would be ready 40 days later?

Would you meet me half way and admit that (at best) War of Will might have finished fifth if not bothered.

There are a lot of things that might have happened. That’s the point. We don’t know for sure because Maximum Security prevented us from seeing what would have happened.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

I thought that horse races were social events.

They certainly are at Keeneland!

 

[RU31trap]

They certainly are at Keeneland!

One of the nicest tracks in the country.

 

[berklion]

Watched it at the Molly Maguire pub in Jim Thorpe. I couldn't hear it,but said right away that's a lot of bumping. I didn't think they had the guts to call it.

 

[AWS1022]

They certainly are at Keeneland!

They’re worse at the Derby, but you don’t see that part on TV. It’s not all big hats and flowery dresses.

 

[blion72]

I’ve been to many tracks throughout the country and watched 1000’s of races and this decision was nothing short of Robbery. The stewards at Churchill Downs owe Jason Servis, Luis Saez and Maximum Security an apology and should immediately reverse what is clearly a flawed decision. The bumping happen at the top of the stretch with a 1/4 mile left in the race, this gave Country House plenty of time to run down Maximum Security who by the way, set the pace and went wire to wire in the slop!! I anticipate horse racing fans at Pimlico to make their voices heard. If Maximum Security wins the Preakness the scene at Belmont particularly the paddock might get a little ugly.

the racing experts i heard today seemed to support your thinking. particularly they felt that Country House had almost zero impact from the collision yet was the first in with a complaint, while the most impacted horse did not register a complaint. most i heard felt this was disingenuous on the part of the Country House team. another comment was that the replay angles were missing needed information. assuming no other reversals, this will be one of the weirdest Derby Winners - as they have a somewhat tainted win. I can see why some say that a horse that was not interfered with should not be able to lodge a complaint.

 

[Hotshoe]

From a friend of mine. Fellow farrier and former jockey.

If you want a fair competition without the risk of interference, go play solitaire

Horse racing has rules. Some of those rules dictate that you can’t impede other horses. Every jock has two lines and has to stay straight. Even if both those lines break, you still have to stay straight or you risk coming down.

There are rules because horse races can be chaos. You’re on a 1000lb animal in a pack all trying to achieve the same thing-win. You’re inches away from a big paycheque, a $100 paycheque or catastrophic injury. You have little time to process or make decisions. You’re at the mercy of an animal that can be unpredictable. The rules are there because it’s not a Mexican match race, order and safety are paramount.

Horse racing is not “fair” in the sense the best horse wins. Sometimes you’re on the best horse in the race and you lose. Sometimes you’re on the worst horse and you win. Sometimes it’s because your gate didn’t open, sometimes it’s because someone did something stupid, sometimes you did something stupid, sometimes your horse has a bad day.

I’ve been on the worst horse in the race and won because another jock took out the field twice. That wasn’t fair for them but I still got the cheque.

I’ve been on horses where I’ve won and been taken down because I screwed up someone’s race that didn’t finish well. They didn’t even get bumped into the money. That’s racing.

Racing is not fair. It’s gut wrenchingly unfair some days.

The best horse doesn’t always win. The first horse to make the wire without getting caught breaking any rules wins.

Contrary to what internet experts believe, the jock calling foul is often irrelevant. The stewards have more cameras angles than you can imagine. They’re watching replays before the first jock gets to an outrider to call foul.

Until that race is deemed official they can decide who to look at. They will get jocks on the phone sometimes and ask what happened. A jockey, trainer or owner does not have to call a foul for them to take action.

There’s a reason why appeals rarely win. The stewards don’t make decisions lightly.

 

[wbcincy]

He blatantly committed the foul, it was the right call. War of Will was making a push and got slowed down. You can't get that momentum back in the last 1/4 mile.

As for War of Will's record? Irrelevant. As for past examples that nobody challenged and weren't DQ'd. Irrelevant. The Rams didn't get called for a pass interference at the end of the NFC title game when their DB tackled the guy before the ball arrived. Does that mean that from here on out, it's not pass interference unless it's worse than that? Or is it ok if pass interference is still called correctly, regardless of other instances where it wasnt?

 

[psualum10]

The vast majority of people who watch horse racing throughout the year and not just over the next 5 weeks all know that it was the right call. It's been said previously if this was the 5th race at Philadelphia Park on a Wednesday that horse is being DQ almost 100% of the time. I'm pretty sure in that replay room that 15 minute replay was 3-5 minutes of is this a clear enough foul and then 10-12 minutes of … are we really going to do this in the Kentucky Derby. It's the same people who say a foul in the first quarter is the same as a foul in the fourth. It was the correct decision.

 

[RU31trap]

the racing experts i heard today seemed to support your thinking. particularly they felt that Country House had almost zero impact from the collision yet was the first in with a complaint, while the most impacted horse did not register a complaint. most i heard felt this was disingenuous on the part of the Country House team. another comment was that the replay angles were missing needed information. assuming no other reversals, this will be one of the weirdest Derby Winners - as they have a somewhat tainted win. I can see why some say that a horse that was not interfered with should not be able to lodge a complaint.

I appreciate your response, thank you. Quick story: three, maybe four years ago in Saratoga I had a 15-1 and an 11-1 in a $2 exacta box and it came in that way. I’ve never had two horses with such long odds on a ticket and win. I was so happy until an objection was filed. At the very top the stretch Javier Castellano went to the whip and his horse drifted into another horse. He quickly straightened the horse out and finish 2nd. No issues with the winner. The horse that was bumped tired and finished next to last. An objection was filed and they took my horse down to 3rd and subsequently screwing me out of approximately $400. At the time the man behind these new rules was a good man who did many good things for horse racing Dinny Phipps (RIP). Unfortunately, Dinny went too far and stewards were making decisions that were punitive and not corrective in nature. So, how did these new rules impact racing in Saratoga during this specific period? Well, on the Wednesday, Thursday and Friday leading up to Travers Day race cards were weak and filled with Claiming, Maiden special weights, Allowances and maybe a Stakes race or a Graded race. With the exception of Travers Day, most trainers stayed away. Over the past two years NYRA had no choice but to relax these rules again.

Let’s be honest it’s easy to take down poor Jason Servis, however trainers like Bob Baffert or D. Wayne Lucas (in his prime) would have been given a pass. If Maximum Security wins the Preakness which I think he will convincingly. Billy Mott and Country House will be better served staying away from Belmont and avoid the embarrassment of being booed.

 

[Aardvark86]

On a side note, it was fascinating to me that for an event that is basically one a year in a sport that is at best basically three times a year, there were large national advertisers creating bespoke ads for the event. This is not after all the super bowl.

 

[Connorpozlee]

I appreciate your response, thank you. Quick story: three, maybe four years ago in Saratoga I had a 15-1 and an 11-1 in a $2 exacta box and it came in that way. I’ve never had two horses with such long odds on a ticket and win. I was so happy until an objection was filed. At the very top the stretch Javier Castellano went to the whip and his horse drifted into another horse. He quickly straightened the horse out and finish 2nd. No issues with the winner. The horse that was bumped tired and finished next to last. An objection was filed and they took my horse down to 3rd and subsequently screwing me out of approximately $400. At the time the man behind these new rules was a good man who did many good things for horse racing Dinny Phipps (RIP). Unfortunately, Dinny went too far and stewards were making decisions that were punitive and not corrective in nature. So, how did these new rules impact racing in Saratoga during this specific period? Well, on the Wednesday, Thursday and Friday leading up to Travers Day race cards were weak and filled with Claiming, Maiden special weights, Allowances and maybe a Stakes race or a Graded race. With the exception of Travers Day, most trainers stayed away. Over the past two years NYRA had no choice but to relax these rules again.

Let’s be honest it’s easy to take down poor Jason Servis, however trainers like Bob Baffert or D. Wayne Lucas (in his prime) would have been given a pass. If Maximum Security wins the Preakness which I think he will convincingly. Billy Mott and Country House will be better served staying away from Belmont.

Why do you say hey should stay away from the Belmont?

 

[RU31trap]

Why do you say hey should stay away from the Belmont?

Hardcore and very knowledgeable horse racing fans who get really animated, loud and on rare occasions verbally vicious. If Mott does bring Country House to Belmont after being beaten at the Preakness by Maximum Security NYRA will insist they saddle the horse on the track and away from the paddock to avoid booing. I’m assuming they may do the same at the Preakness. This is why horses are rarely if ever disqualified in high profile multimillion dollar races like the Kentucky Derby.

 

[Sproul]

Are the bets being paid out now or are they waiting to see what happens next?

 

[RU31trap]

Are the bets being paid out now or are they waiting to see what happens next?

I heard rumors that of the $42 million that was bet on Maximum Security half those betters are holding onto those tickets. Not sure what will happen if they reverse the stewards decision. By the way, great question.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

Nothing will happen with respect to the holders of tickets on the 7. This is how it goes in horse racing. People are all pissed off who bet a race once a year. If you bet all the time you know these things are commonplace. You have a horse taken down or your horse gets taken down. (they can't be put up, only taken down).

There is no consolation prize. If the horse tests positive, too bad you lose. The connections might have to sacrifice a purse but it doesn't effect the tote. If the horse gets taken down too bad, you lose. The pools were paid out and there's the end of it. The 7 was sent to the bottom. End of story. Jeebus Hannah. It's over. No legal wrangling is going to change shiz. Welcome to horse betting.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

I heard rumors that God was going to come down and give me the Pick 6 at Santa Anita.

 

[LoyalandTrueLion]

I’ve been to many tracks throughout the country and watched 1000’s of races and this decision was nothing short of Robbery. The stewards at Churchill Downs owe Jason Servis, Luis Saez and Maximum Security an apology and should immediately reverse what is clearly a flawed decision. The bumping happen at the top of the stretch with a 1/4 mile left in the race, this gave Country House plenty of time to run down Maximum Security who by the way, set the pace and went wire to wire in the slop!! I anticipate horse racing fans at Pimlico to make their voices heard. If Maximum Security wins the Preakness the scene at Belmont particularly the paddock might get a little ugly.

Ugh no

 

[Obliviax]

IMHO, the horse veering to the right and cutting off a contender was excusable in that the track was so sloppy. But then, it appears, he veers back again to the rail in the same curve when another horse challenges. He doesn't get there in time to cut him off. But the horse swims outside his lane, not once, but twice, making it look more "on purpose". I think the jockey felt nobody would call a race changing foul at the KD, like players feel no ref is going to call PI on a DB in the last minute of the super bowl or a foul in the NBA game seven championship.

 

[artsandletters]

Wasn’t there a second jock who claimed the same foul against MS? I think that’s what Torico said this morning.

 

[dwiz]

Wasn’t there a second jock who claimed the same foul against MS? I think that’s what Torico said this morning.

It was both the winner and the horse that almost made contact, I believe.

 

[RU31trap]

Nothing will happen with respect to the holders of tickets on the 7. This is how it goes in horse racing. People are all pissed off who bet a race once a year. If you bet all the time you know these things are commonplace. You have a horse taken down or your horse gets taken down. (they can't be put up, only taken down).

There is no consolation prize. If the horse tests positive, too bad you lose. The connections might have to sacrifice a purse but it doesn't effect the tote. If the horse gets taken down too bad, you lose. The pools were paid out and there's the end of it. The 7 was sent to the bottom. End of story. Jeebus Hannah. It's over. No legal wrangling is going to change shiz. Welcome to horse betting.

Here's another beauty. I'm really loving a 6-1 but decide to wait until the horses approach the gate to see if the odds change. I literally place the bet with seconds to go. The race ends the horse wins and the payout odds are 5-2 due to late money from other tracks. Very frustrating.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

Here's another beauty. I'm really loving a 6-1 but decide to wait until the horses approach the gate to see if the odds change. I literally place the bet with seconds to go. The race ends the horse wins and the payout odds are 5-2 due to late money from other tracks. Very frustrating.

Yes and sometimes it works the other way. Ever bet a 5/2 and it goes off at 7/2? Sometimes DQs work in your favor. Ask anybody who had the 20. It's racing.

 

[psualum10]

Wasn’t there a second jock who claimed the same foul against MS? I think that’s what Torico said this morning.

Yes both the 20 (Country House) and the 18 (Long Range Toddy) filed the objection after the race ... because of what the MS did they moved him down to 17th ... one spot behind Long Range Toddy who finished 17th (moved up to 16th) due to the bump.

 

[PennStateTurf2002]

I had a lot to gain with maximum security winning that race but even so I have to say it was a clear violation. If that is a Wednesday at Gulfcoast or Santa Anita that is called immediately. It wasn’t just Country House who reported it, also Long range Toddy. I had an strait exacta with Maximjm security and roadster with Long Range Toddy, War of Will and Game Winner. I was dangerously close to taking a nice payday with me.

However as others have pointed out, this has happened before and never been a DQ on the biggest stage. However this could have been a horrific accident at the front of the pack with numerous jockeys and horses lives on the line. The Santa Anita mess this year has the horse racing world under attack and they have to at this point put everything they can into the safety of these horses. They can’t take any more bad publicity with horse deaths. Thus they enforced a correct call that would normally never be called in a race of this magnitude.

 

[RU31trap]

Bob Baffert:
"No one calls an objection in the Derby! It's always a roughly run race with a twenty horse field. I've been wiped out numerous times, but that is the Derby. I can see why they did it, but sometimes you've got to take your ass kicking with dignity."

 

[LionJim]

Not to prolong any argument, but is it anyone's take that the foul was called less because it affected the outcome and more because it very nearly caused a catastrophic wreck?

 

[RU31trap]

Not to prolong any argument, but is it anyone's take that the foul was called less because it affected the outcome and more because it very nearly caused a catastrophic wreck?

Any time an objection was brought to the stewards attention in a race that I bet it always revolved around the outcome of the race and that in a nutshell is the controversy with the disqualification. None of the horses heading into the stretch were going to catch and beat Maximum Security.

 

[Glen]

So the greatest spectacle in horse racing, the Triple Crown, is over for 2019 within 22 minutes of the end of the Derby. I barely watch horse racing - mainly the Triple Crown races to see if there may be one in a particular year.
I really do not care if racing followers think the call is correct. There is no way that call should have been made, especially 22 long minutes after the race. This just puts another brick on my pile of why my interest in sports wanes. I barely watch the NFL. I do not watch boxing anymore. And now the little interest in horse racing is probably lessened. The common denominator to these three sports - gambling interests.

 

[psualum10]

Any time an objection was brought to the stewards attention in a race that I bet it always revolved around the outcome of the race and that in a nutshell is the controversy with the disqualification. None of the horses heading into the stretch were going to catch and beat Maximum Security.

You literally have no idea of this and you present it as fact. Both War of Will and Long Range Toddy were at the front with Maximum Security. Both were affected by being bumped. Both finished outside of the money. You literally, unless you can see the future and can change the parameters while seeing the future, have zero way of knowing this. The more you type the more I think you have no idea what you're talking about and just felt like you're one of those slept at a Holiday Inn last night folks.

 

[psualum10]

So the greatest spectacle in horse racing, the Triple Crown, is over for 2019 within 22 minutes of the end of the Derby. I barely watch horse racing - mainly the Triple Crown races to see if there may be one in a particular year.
I really do not care if racing followers think the call is correct. There is no way that call should have been made, especially 22 long minutes after the race. This just puts another brick on my pile of why my interest in sports wanes. I barely watch the NFL. I do not watch boxing anymore. And now the little interest in horse racing is probably lessened. The common denominator to these three sports - gambling interests.

Lmao ... you should have stopped after saying how you don't care if the call is correct.

 

[Glen]

Lmao ... you should have stopped after saying how you don't care if the call is correct.

Read again, I said nothing about if the call was correct. I am a very casual follower of horse racing and if it takes three experts 22 minutes to figure out if it was a foul, that tells me the call is not obvious. A wise man many years ago told me “ you can be right, and you can be dead right”. I think those three stewards took another step down the path toward killing horse racing.

 

[RU31trap]

You literally have no idea of this and you present it as fact. Both War of Will and Long Range Toddy were at the front with Maximum Security. Both were affected by being bumped. Both finished outside of the money. You literally, unless you can see the future and can change the parameters while seeing the future, have zero way of knowing this. The more you type the more I think you have no idea what you're talking about and just felt like you're one of those slept at a Holiday Inn last night folks.

Let me tell you what I do know, both horses you mention in your post are mediocre at best and did not belong in the Derby. I for one wish they remove the auxiliary gate and go back to a 14 horse field. A quality horse and Jockey with a 1/4 mile to go in the race would have fought back down the stretch and finished better than 7th and 16th respectively. When Scrappy T knocked Afleet Alex to his knees did he give up or did he fight back, and win!! When Codex bumped Genuine Risk and Cordero whipped her across the neck for good measure did she fall back or did she fight back and take second? When Real Quiet veered out on Victory gallop and bumped him hard not once but twice did he crumble under pressure? No he fought back and won the Belmont!! It is my opinion that Maximum Security was robbed! Bob Baffert agrees with me, Steve Assumssen was very critical of the decision and as time goes by more and more people are going to criticize this decision. You talk about the disqualification as if this was a dam allowance race and then question my knowledge on the subject?

 

[poker1]

Read again, I said nothing about if the call was correct. I am a very casual follower of horse racing and if it takes three experts 22 minutes to figure out if it was a foul, that tells me the call is not obvious. A wise man many years ago told me “ you can be right, and you can be dead right”. I think those three stewards took another step down the path toward killing horse racing.

They took that long because it was the Derby. Those who know racing best say it was a very dangerous situation and if it was an ordinary race they would have called it in two minutes. From the link:
"There was near unanimity among trainers that the stewards made the right decision to disqualify Maximum Security and award the victory to Country House."
https://www.latimes.com/sports/more...mum-security-disqualified-20190505-story.html

 

[RU31trap]

Read again, I said nothing about if the call was correct. I am a very casual follower of horse racing and if it takes three experts 22 minutes to figure out if it was a foul, that tells me the call is not obvious. A wise man many years ago told me “ you can be right, and you can be dead right”. I think those three stewards took another step down the path toward killing horse racing.

Well said and true.

 

[Obliviax]

Let me tell you what I do know, both horses you mention in your post are mediocre at best and did not belong in the Derby. I for one wish they remove the auxiliary gate and go back to a 14 horse field. A quality horse and Jockey with a 1/4 mile to go in the race would have fought back down the stretch and finished better than 7th and 16th respectively. When Scrappy T knocked Afleet Alex to his knees did he give up or did he fight back, and win!! When Codex bumped Genuine Risk and Cordero whipped her across the neck for good measure did she fall back or did she fight back and take second? When Real Quiet veered out on Victory gallop and bumped him hard not once but twice did he crumble under pressure? No he fought back and won the Belmont!! It is my opinion that Maximum Security was robbed! Bob Baffert agrees with me, Steve Assumssen was very critical of the decision and as time goes by more and more people are going to criticize this decision. You talk about the disqualification as if this was a dam allowance race and then question my knowledge on the subject?

I was told that "Maximum Security" still believes that he won. Perhaps nobody wants to tell him