2018/19 lineup speculation
- Thread starter GogglesPaizano
- Start date
Jan Johnson’s weight played only a small part in his struggles on the mat.
It had more to do with practically no time in a college wrestling room before competing. Cassar is more talented too. A 220 lb Cassar will be much more successful than a 220lb Jan Johnson.
Pretty much what naddabluechip said. Basing expected AC results on actual JJ results is beyond silly. Based upon your general wrestling knowledge I can't even understand the need to post such a question and analogy.
Cassar is quick even for a 197, I think he'd have a lot of success at HWT providing he's actually in the 220 range. He's not Snyder, to compare light heavies, but he'd have to win matches in similar ways, getting to legs and ankles and converting. He can do that. HWT just cleared out a bit too with Coon and Snyder leaving, I think he'd be in the mix to AA.
Again, he's not Snyder, but he's closer to Snyder than he is Jan Johnson. All credit to Jan for always competing but I think he'd have had a similar record at 197 as he did at HWT.
Again, he's not Snyder, but he's closer to Snyder than he is Jan Johnson. All credit to Jan for always competing but I think he'd have had a similar record at 197 as he did at HWT.
I did not base expected Cassar results based on Jan's results so stop with the straw man arguments. I asked what I consider a legit question and no one's response so far has convinced me that Cassar would be an AA at 285.
The grudge against Cassar for beating McCutcheon last year is real in some posters.
Is it the same posters who, last year at this time, were saying Cassar wouldn't beat out Cutch?
Interesting if it is.
I'm not sure what you're looking for. In the realm of speculation I doubt anyone can come up with a convincing argument.
For me, it would be good news to learn that Cassar and Nick are close in the room. That would mean we have 2 potential AAs ... best man gets the spot.
One thing appears obvious though, from 184-Hwt one good wrestler is going to get squeezed out of NCAAs. I have no dog in the fight, so I'll trust Cael and his wrestlers to figure it out.
Last edited:
Lyons reference to getting Galted raises a ?.
Do the wrestlers (and I guess all other sports) have access to the same weight/strength resources as the football team?
Could Cassar (for example) get a specialized regimen set up just for him by Galt, or under Galt's supervision?
Do the wrestlers (and I guess all other sports) have access to the same weight/strength resources as the football team?
Could Cassar (for example) get a specialized regimen set up just for him by Galt, or under Galt's supervision?
The analogy of AC approximating Jan Johnson is beyond silly. That is not a strawman. You ask me what would make me believe AC would be good on his feet against college heavyweights, because Jan was not successful. That is the basic equivalent question as asking me since you, nitlion could not take down a college heavyweight, why would you believe AC might. The only difference between the two questions is the degree of silliness.
However, if it will make you feel better I will answer the exact question you ask.
AC is a 22, 23 year-old man who has been training (strength, conditioning and technique) in the Penn State room for 4 plus years. Jan was a true 18 (19) year-old freshman who played football until Cael called Franklin and ask to borrow Johnson for the year.
So to piece meal it for you. AC has a technique that is very sound that involves his positioning always being sound, his feet always moving (whether neutral or attacking) and his use of directional changes. Johnson as a true freshman was more prone to straight ahead attacks and getting stuck underneath.
AC has been handfighting and positional fighting with Nick, Cael, Gwiz, Thompson, as well as Shak, Bo and DT. Johnson's handfighting and positional experience was against whoever he could find at Governor Mifflin to practice with.
AC at 197 was sturdy, physical and just flat out strong like a bull. My guess is AC easily and naturally goes 220 and lean, so getting to 230 is not like piling on blubber just to get some additional weight. So at 230 AC is going to be a big, strong man who is also quite athletic. Jan is obviously athletic, but still was an 18 (19) 220 pound kid.
So I believe AC's technique, strength, conditioning and wrestling IQ (all very superior to anything true freshman Jan Johnson had to offer) will pave a path of high success for AC if he wrestles heavyweight this season.
With that said, Jan Johnson deserves a standing O and a PSU wrestling community's appreciation for standing in and fighting his ass off representing PSU with the heart of a Lion.
Last edited:
Absolutely. Some went as far to bring up Cassar's redshirt results from 3 years prior.
This all comes down to the backup QB being the most popular player and it's 2 years in a row that Cassar falls into that role. Some people take the position that the starter is the starter for a reason and stand by them. Others take the position that the backup is an upgrade. This argument is nothing more than that.
Who knows who will win the spot but Nevills is no slouch and probably our best 285 since McCoy.
nitlion6, for all of your arguments about the neutral action, what happens when he's under someone like Nevills? Last year, he had problems getting out sometimes, now they're bigger. See Bucknell and Lehigh.
Who knows who will win the spot but Nevills is no slouch and probably our best 285 since McCoy.
nitlion6, for all of your arguments about the neutral action, what happens when he's under someone like Nevills? Last year, he had problems getting out sometimes, now they're bigger. See Bucknell and Lehigh.
I am sorry that it offends you that I don't think Cassar will be an AA at 285 so there isn't any reason for me to respond further. Apologies for being silly over and over again.
I have no idea if he can get out against somebody as big and as good on top as Nick Nevills, or if he would struggle.
I was saying I believe he will be very good on his feet against other heavyweights.
Just my own personal guess is if it was up to me, against heavyweights I would want AC to be more explosive coming up and out. There are very few heavyweights that are really slick with leg riding.
Last edited:
During our little exchange there was never a mention of whether or not AC would AA. Your proclamation that I am offended by your belief that AC will not AA at 285 is a fine example of a strawman argument though. This particular post is the one I assume you meant as your last silly post.
That's right. I have no idea if he will be able to get out or not either. Also, neither of have any idea if he can take down a HWT. I think that's all Nova was trying to say.
You made the statement: "A 220 - 230 pound AC will be very good on his feet against most heavies not named Snyder, Coon or Medbery."
You don't know that.
Plus, we have a 2 time AA who could beat anyone in the country last year except the top 2 or 3 guys. I think it's a lot to assume Cassar can just jump right into that position, maybe he can, maybe not.
Nevills is a 2x AA -- so if Cassar can't place at HWT, why would he start there?
You know, if we had never actually seen Cassar wrestle than the statement we have no idea would be very accurate. Since I have seen him wrestle and beat quality 197 pounders I can form an opinion that is at the very least a semi qualified, educated guess.
This back and forth started with how does AC do against NN. My answer was until recently it would have been a 197 pounder against a 265 pound heavyweight.
How a 220-230 pound AC does against a 265 pound Nevills I do not know. However, from the neutral position AC will be able to have success against heavies not named Snyder, Coon or Medbery. You know, either against Captain America or someone very large, very strong and very good.
Yeah, I believe AC could have success wrestling on his feet against Nick. He did not seem to struggle against Moore wrestling on their feet. I suppose it is possible you and NOVA believe Nick Nevills is a far superior opponent than Moore and if so that explains a lot. I think Moore and Nick Nevills are similar in quality.
My exchange with Nova had nothing to do with Nevills other the comparison to Johnson's results.
Whether AC can or will AA at heavyweight never was part of the discussion. I am failing to understand your post.
Didn't realize it was complex. The guy Cael thinks places higher will start. One guy has medaled twice. If he gets upended, it's either because he's injured or the other guy can place higher.
There's really no way of divorcing the "who's better" or "who will start" discussion from the "can Cassar place higher" topic.
Now to make it clear for Nova, y2jr, and el-jefe.
Nick Nevills if he wrestles this year and is healthy is IMO as likely to win a national championship as is Stoll if he is healthy. Both, if healthy, are as much of an AA lock as one can probably get for someone not named Nolf, Cenzo, Hall, Nickal or Lee.
It is also my belief that Cassar last season if he been the 197 pound choice was good enough to win the 197 pound class. That is not saying he would have, but he most certianly was good enough.
So if AC has bulked up to 230 and is going to challenge Nick for his heavyweight spot, AC is not some scrub challenging Snyder. AC is a very high quality wrestler in his own right, challenging another high quality wrestler in NN.
If some disagree or have their panties bunched because of that belief, what the hell are u going to do when there are multiple weights that have 2 AA quality kids butting heads to secure a starting position. That is coming.
Nick Nevills if he wrestles this year and is healthy is IMO as likely to win a national championship as is Stoll if he is healthy. Both, if healthy, are as much of an AA lock as one can probably get for someone not named Nolf, Cenzo, Hall, Nickal or Lee.
It is also my belief that Cassar last season if he been the 197 pound choice was good enough to win the 197 pound class. That is not saying he would have, but he most certianly was good enough.
So if AC has bulked up to 230 and is going to challenge Nick for his heavyweight spot, AC is not some scrub challenging Snyder. AC is a very high quality wrestler in his own right, challenging another high quality wrestler in NN.
If some disagree or have their panties bunched because of that belief, what the hell are u going to do when there are multiple weights that have 2 AA quality kids butting heads to secure a starting position. That is coming.
You jumped in and helped make it complex.
I will just defer to the post between your last post and my most previous post.
Cassar as a 197 pounder or a 230 pound heavyweight would beat football player Jan Johnson handily.
Who would win a foot race against Jerry Seinfeld?Cassar as a 197 pounder or a 230 pound heavyweight would beat football player Jan Johnson handily.
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
This thread is pretty much going nowhere so a little Monty Python might help....
This thread is pretty much going nowhere so a little Monty Python might help....
You will have to tell me. So who would? Are you putting a distance to this race? Anybody getting head starts. I assume people such as Lolo Jones, Antonio Brown would beat the 64 year-old comic.
I assume you have some knowledge to how Seinfeld runs, what distance he prefers, distance or sprint type races. Right? I mean you were making a point, and that point had at least a minimal amount of thought put into it. Right?
Maybe, probably not. Huh?
I'd be surprised if a healthy Cassar beats a healthy Nevills but, as always, may the best wrestler win.
"Might Help"?? Is it a Good Idea To Quote Monty Python? "Of Course it's a Good Idea!"...…...God has spoken
May this thread find it's end in The Castle of AAAaaaRRRrrrrGGGGggggggggg.
I have read a majority of this thread which discussed AC competing for Nevills spot. What I am wondering, is it more a move of just slotting in as a backup at HWT.
I would doubt he could beat Nevills on a consistent basis if NN is healthy. Maybe the Bo move to 197 is true.
AC decides he is ok with being on the team as the next man up at HWT but doesn't have to cut weight.
I think we loose sight that some of the decisions a kid would make would involve , his education and friendships,(relationships).
Life decisions are sometimes larger than a sport decision. I have a daughter that was a great athlete, but suffered 3 terrible concussions in high school. Only could play non contact sports after last concussion. Bought her tennis racket, ended getting offered scholarship to play for West Chester. She got to college and headaches became severe working out for tennis. We discussed her long term future and it was best for her to give up the sport and concentrate on her studies. Graduated with honors last year. It was a life decision.
Maybe AC has decided that a Penn State education is more worthy of part of his future than transferring for 1 or 2 years of wrestling.
I would doubt he could beat Nevills on a consistent basis if NN is healthy. Maybe the Bo move to 197 is true.
AC decides he is ok with being on the team as the next man up at HWT but doesn't have to cut weight.
I think we loose sight that some of the decisions a kid would make would involve , his education and friendships,(relationships).
Life decisions are sometimes larger than a sport decision. I have a daughter that was a great athlete, but suffered 3 terrible concussions in high school. Only could play non contact sports after last concussion. Bought her tennis racket, ended getting offered scholarship to play for West Chester. She got to college and headaches became severe working out for tennis. We discussed her long term future and it was best for her to give up the sport and concentrate on her studies. Graduated with honors last year. It was a life decision.
Maybe AC has decided that a Penn State education is more worthy of part of his future than transferring for 1 or 2 years of wrestling.
I feel that the only reason AC is moving up--is due to NN not being healthy. 2 surgery in 4 years--is tough on any athlete.. but even more so on the big boys
Granted, they're only Tea Leaves, but I've read enough this offseason that I'm gonna operate believing Nickal is moving to 197. I'll count that as Reason #1.
Reason #2, he lost wrestle-offs and Cael's postseason decision to eventual AA Rasheed last year.
Reason #3, Nick Nevills' shoulder injury, possible surgery (haven't read those tea leaves myself), long recovery
Reason #4, tired of cutting. Curious about getting big and how much success he might have there.
Not quibbling with your take, just expanding on it....
