*

[Nittany Ned2]

🎵

 

[Art]

This is what happens when people establishing endowments at universities are stupid, which most are.

 

[Pardlion]

It's interesting, even though the eliminated sports were not revenue generating they were probably closer to being self funded than football and basketball. That is probably an applicable lesson for all schools including Penn State.

Penn State is self-funded and then some, so how is the situation at W&M an "applicable lesson"?

 

[Art]

Penn State is self-funded and then some, so how is the situation at W&M an "applicable lesson"?

Penn State is funded by football which is one of the reasons Coach Franklin has to take his grievances over facilities and assistants' salaries public. Amazing that hasn't dawned on more people.

 

[step.eng69]

It is my understanding that each sport has it's own endowment. So, revenue generation may not be the best way to view whether a sport is kept or cut. Even though a sport doesn't generate revenue it may be budget neutral or close to it, based on operating costs and level of endowment.

Ned2 , who pays for the sport to be continually active, beside the "endowment "?

 

[psu_et_vt]

Ned2 , who pays for the sport to be continually active, beside the "endowment "?

As stated in the article, there are endowments and there are fees charged to students along with their tuition. The "non-revenue" sports are the only sports that nearly break-even at most schools outside of the power 5. Football loses tons at many of the smaller schools like W&M (even though they are near the top of FCS every year). The costs of football are just too high for most of those schools. It has been this way for 40 years.

 

[gymdad]

Penn State is self-funded and then some, so how is the situation at W&M an "applicable lesson"?

Correct on a historic basis. The ability to continue the status quo in the changing economic Situation is questionable. Thus the reason SB recently noted the Athletic Dept may be facing Significant $ losses this school year

 

[diontechristmas]

I look at it this way. Yes, a school like W&M loses money on football, but football still generates more interest from the students, alums and community than the rest of the non-revenue sports combined. W&M or Lafayette or Colgate may only get 8-10k people at a home game, but how many years of swim or track meets does it take to tally the same attendance? Realistically, it may take 25 years to total 10k in attendance for swim meets, and that level of support is accomplished in a single football game. The football program may lose money, but it still gets the school on TV a few times a year and connects the campus community more than dozens or hundreds of softball games and gymnastics meets.

I don’t want any sport cut as it gives kids opportunities. However, if this is an ROI discussion, football is king even for most FCS schools.

 

[psu_et_vt]

I look at it this way. Yes, a school like W&M loses money on football, but football still generates more interest from the students, alums and community than the rest of the non-revenue sports combined. W&M or Lafayette or Colgate may only get 8-10k people at a home game, but how many years of swim or track meets does it take to tally the same attendance? Realistically, it may take 25 years to total 10k in attendance for swim meets, and that level of support is accomplished in a single football game. The football program may lose money, but it still gets the school on TV a few times a year and connects the campus community more than dozens or hundreds of softball games and gymnastics meets.

I don’t want any sport cut as it gives kids opportunities. However, if this is an ROI discussion, football is king even for most FCS schools.

Schools like W&M (public and they should answer to the state at some level) and Lafayette (private and they can do as they please) may get fans at football but they spend way too much on it. It is hilarious that the cold financial calculus proves that football is a huge loser but spending on travel and extras needed to be "big time." These are schools where academics are supposed to rule the day.
Let football hold the same bake sales that swimming and gymnastics have to and defend themselves for the cost. I don't believe it should be cancelled but give it a reasonable budget. The revenue-expenses should net (including donations glad handed to the school during football of course) a similar per-athlete allowance to all other sports.

 

[Pardlion]

Schools like W&M (public and they should answer to the state at some level) and Lafayette (private and they can do as they please) may get fans at football but they spend way too much on it. It is hilarious that the cold financial calculus proves that football is a huge loser but spending on travel and extras needed to be "big time." These are schools where academics are supposed to rule the day.
Let football hold the same bake sales that swimming and gymnastics have to and defend themselves for the cost. I don't believe it should be cancelled but give it a reasonable budget. The revenue-expenses should net (including donations glad handed to the school during football of course) a similar per-athlete allowance to all other sports.

It’s unclear to me the extent to which these sports attract general alumni support. At a school like Lafayette, for example, football is the only thing that attracts many alums back to campus. No one is going back to watch swimming.

 

[Pardlion]

Correct on a historic basis. The ability to continue the status quo in the changing economic Situation is questionable. Thus the reason SB recently noted the Athletic Dept may be facing Significant $ losses this school year

They’re not making money this year because there are no fans and for now no games. Next year should be ok, following years certainly.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

If there was no football, there would be no McAndrew message Board. If there was no football, the only time you would think of Penn State would be when you filled out a job resume. If there was no football, if you met someone in an airport that went to Penn State, instead of having a 30 minute conversation, you would simply say "cool"! If there was no football, you wouldn't be wearing Penn State T-shirts and sweatshirts to the gym every day.

Football unifies both a University and a high school like nothing else does. Nothing against swimming, but how many small towns unify as one on Friday nights to attend a swimming meet. Football has that special combination of physical combat combined with intellectual strategy that nothing else can match.

I'll never forget taking my daughter on recruiting visits to different schools. On one tour, at one of the SUNYs, our guide saw my Penn State jacket, and whispered to me that he was transferring to another school the next semester because the school we were touring " doesn't even have a football team". At another school, we were sitting with the President of the University, and as soon as he found out I went to Penn State, all he could do was ask me questions about Penn State football. When we got back to the car, my wife and daughter both laughed and asked me "Does he work for Penn State"??? : ^ )

 

[LionDeNittany]

It’s unclear to me the extent to which these sports attract general alumni support. At a school like Lafayette, for example, football is the only thing that attracts many alums back to campus. No one is going back to watch swimming.

Yes, there's a reason the Ivy League plays football. It isn't to generate money for athletics.

I attended (before PSU) a major public university that did not have a football team. The alumni network was and still is garbage. No school pride. Even as the school climbs well ahead of PSU in rankings it still pales in many aspects due to the lack of a football program.

LdN