Tough to turn guys who turtle up on bottom and know the ref will let them do it for most of a period before calling stalling. Great way not to give up bonus points.
3-point takedown passed, nearfall for riding time not passed
- Thread starter RB-Old
- Start date
Being necessary is beside the point. I‘m not claiming it was necessary and feel many other changes should have been prioritized, regardless, it was changed.
You dont think ANYONE is going too benefit from the change? Some will adapt, some will suffer and bitch about it because they cant adapt. I think its a no-brainer who will adapt.
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It was a lie. I can't hold onto anything that long. I buy reading glasses once a month.
As I said to @McScoreley, most any rule change benefits PSU because they have the best wrestlers. But that doesn’t make it a good change. Cael isn’t on record with anything on it, but I’d imagine he didn’t much care either way.
Haha. Not all Hawk fans think alike.
I’d like to see statistics on number of offensive points scored on counters. I bet that number has gone up dramatically since the improved scrambling and defense. Evolution is part of the sport and this is where the most evolution has take place imo in recent years.
With this new rule it may make wrestlers more hesitant to take a shot for fear they could get countered. Wrestlers might have to pick their spots a little more rather than just initiate offense and hold on for dear life when they get hipped into the ground. Imo the reward for finishing a take down has gone up, but the penalty for initiating offense has gotten more severe.
Hopefully this rule creates the desired affect, but I fear it might be another hands to the face rule that we saw come and go 5 or so years ago.
I’m for seeing offensive wrestling regardless the team. So I think you misread what I wrote. Funny how seeing Hawkfan in my name generates such a response.
Worst case scenario if a wrestler feels he has a 50/50 chance to score, maybe he doesn’t initiate an offense move for fear of being countered and giving up three. In the past if you see a moment to score you initiate offense because if it fails you have the chance to escape and you’re only down one. Now you’re down two.
Why would a wrestler like Cam Amine or Will Lewan ever initiate offense against competition similar to them now? They are excellent counter wrestlers with a solid defensive base. Why not wait for the aggressor to take a shot, counter and be up two?
I’d rather see 7 mins of offensive wrestling rather than snapping and pulling and waiting for a mistake. My opinion anyway.
When we see Hawk fan we already know to use smaller words and even smaller sentences..
But mostly we are just jabbing at you in friendly banter... Some maybe not so much but most of us yes..
But mostly we are just jabbing at you in friendly banter... Some maybe not so much but most of us yes..
The scenario above would be infinitely more exciting… entire stands on edge of seat to see if he can get out… then a guy getting 1 takedown and therefore up 2 and being able to absorb 3 stall calls and still win.
Zane Retherford won perhaps the most exciting match in Rec Hall history (certainly top 10) by giving up a takedown in period 1, getting a ride out in period 2, and going to OT as a result. Under new rules he loses.
A one point match after the first period still forces the leading wrestler to wrestle. Has to take down or he probably gives up his lead. Has to get out or he gives up his lead. Can’t get dinged for stalling more than once. Now he can get away with choosing neutral and dancing far more. And if the takedown was toward end of period for a 3-0 lead, he can absorb 4 stall calls and still win.
Yeah things are gonna get real the second we a see a short time takedown to make it 3-0 in an otherwise evenly wrestled period.
Well 3/4 of the country isn't great at turning dudes. How many RBY, and Brooks matches have finished short of a Tech due mostly to the free release netting only one point after a TD? I am not a fan of the 3 pointer, but it will absolutely result in MANY more well deserved Majors and Techs.
Maybe but CSauertieg & HawkFan made good points. The Law of Unintended Consequences is powerful.
I have absolutely no issue with that at all. Sounds like a very exciting end of a period.
The idea that a guy who gives up a TD and is then allowed to get up by the wrestler who took him down trailing by only a single point has always been wrong, IMO.
I mean if a team shoots a 3-pointer in basketball and then lets the other team have a layup, they’re only up one. But maybe don’t let the other team have a layup?
Either way if you keep making 3-pointers you’ll grow your lead, it’ll just be less drastic if you ignore another fundamental aspect of the sport.
They could have listened to my suggestion and kept a takedown at 2 points and allowed the top wrestler to choose a zero point release escape at any whistled stop in the action.
I just don’t see how folks don’t realize that this is the most noticeable impact we’ll see.
I don’t think it makes it better or worse, but it changes
What I want to know is when we stopped having expectations of guys to escape/ get out from bottom?
Bottom line, I think we’ll see much quicker matches/duals, not that that’s good or bad. We’ll also see guys who are elite TD artists but not achieved turners just catch/release from the beginning and get a lot of techs completed before the 3rd period ever begins.
Bo and Jason would rarely have had to wrestle the second period with these scoring rules
It sounds like we'll be seeing you a bunch in Happy Valley this season. 😅
I'd like this. No riding time except after a TD and for refs to call stalling more frequently.
This is a great point I just really started to think about after you brought it up. The amount of 1 TD matches seems to be quite significant in very high level competition. Not sure I love a guy that is good early on his feet and then gasses out to be overly rewarded from having one good period. Easier to overcome an early TD with an escape and riding time (showing dominance in top). That ability to come back is now gone.
No doubt Cael will adjust and have the team ready better than any of our competition, but for sure the unintended consequences will not be known until the end of the season.
I expect much more catch and release, and easier bonus.
The counter thought to this is less attacks out of fear of giving up 3 to counter takedowns, as defense has evolved significantly over the past decade or so.
I am not a huge fan of the rule, but it will skew our skill set more towards freestyle, which ultimately may not be a bad thing.
I expect much more catch and release, and easier bonus.
The counter thought to this is less attacks out of fear of giving up 3 to counter takedowns, as defense has evolved significantly over the past decade or so.
I am not a huge fan of the rule, but it will skew our skill set more towards freestyle, which ultimately may not be a bad thing.
My apologies, as it has probably been discussed. So much focus on the 3 PT TD what about some of the others?
1). Is the 'PSU ride' wink, wink, where we trap the ankle no longer legal and will get a 5 count? Did they provide a definition of 'grasp' to include the leg pinch, or does grasp imply hands only?
"The current mandatory five-second count for the waist and ankle ride will be expanded to include all situations in which the top wrestler grasps the bottom wrestler's ankle"
With the change to top riding, I am not at all pleased, and think the change will have many unintended consequences. The risk reward for to riding may have tried to the point where few attempts to build up enough for the point.
First, to riding is not only a skill but the reward with a riding time point has been retained. So in reality you can both get rewarded or punished for riding. Working for a turn is very subjective, especially if the bottom wrestler is skilled at parterre-like folk defense, while also not being very skilled at getting out.
I would have preferred two significant changes to this rule: (1) The penalty for riding improperly should only apply after 1 min of riding time has been acheived. Riding is a skill and how can it be staking when you are working towards getting a point or eliminating the point your open-end has gained? (2) Issuing a stalling call is far too punitive. They should have simply dictated the referee breaks the action for a restart. We can potentially see more intentional stalling from bottom to expose the to wrestler to the new penalty. To actually penalize the top guy with a point for stalling after prior warnings is going to be problematic. I suspect most wrestlers who don't possess the skill to ride effectively will simply choose neutral or give the bottom guy a free release. The 'art' of top wrestling will deminish significant - just watch.
1). Is the 'PSU ride' wink, wink, where we trap the ankle no longer legal and will get a 5 count? Did they provide a definition of 'grasp' to include the leg pinch, or does grasp imply hands only?
"The current mandatory five-second count for the waist and ankle ride will be expanded to include all situations in which the top wrestler grasps the bottom wrestler's ankle"
With the change to top riding, I am not at all pleased, and think the change will have many unintended consequences. The risk reward for to riding may have tried to the point where few attempts to build up enough for the point.
First, to riding is not only a skill but the reward with a riding time point has been retained. So in reality you can both get rewarded or punished for riding. Working for a turn is very subjective, especially if the bottom wrestler is skilled at parterre-like folk defense, while also not being very skilled at getting out.
I would have preferred two significant changes to this rule: (1) The penalty for riding improperly should only apply after 1 min of riding time has been acheived. Riding is a skill and how can it be staking when you are working towards getting a point or eliminating the point your open-end has gained? (2) Issuing a stalling call is far too punitive. They should have simply dictated the referee breaks the action for a restart. We can potentially see more intentional stalling from bottom to expose the to wrestler to the new penalty. To actually penalize the top guy with a point for stalling after prior warnings is going to be problematic. I suspect most wrestlers who don't possess the skill to ride effectively will simply choose neutral or give the bottom guy a free release. The 'art' of top wrestling will deminish significant - just watch.
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