ADVERTISEMENT

A couple of outsider observations

A poorly officiated game. I would like to think it was incompetence, not bias. Perhaps for a game of this magnitude, 2 more officials would help. More eyes on the game as it unfolds. PSU got the short end of the stick.

1. The fair catch: the returner needs to either make a clear signal of a fair catch or no hand signal at all. It confuses the tacklers. Correct call.
2. The last interception by Oregon: the Oregon defender had a handful of the WR's jersey. That helped him to intercept the ball. Should have been DPI.
3. The refs badly missed a roughing the passer/ unnecessary roughness call on an Allar play. Play stops when the whistle blows.
I think I counted 4 times Danielson pointed out an Oregon player "got away with one there."

My guess it was a less experienced crew and they just didn't have confidence to penalize anything that was a judgment call. The 4 PFs on PSU was bizarre, but every one of those calls looked legit to me, that's on the PSU players. The facemask on Rojas was flagrant.

Not making any attempt to call PI or offensive backfield holding is bad though. You can't call everything, you don't even call most of it, but you have to call SOME of it or things get out of control.
 
Agreed. The rules are the rules. Call them as you see fit no matter the game, time of the game, or play. Anything else is a mockery. If you "don't" call a foul that is clearly a foul, you are changing the game. You are "inserting yourself" into the game. Total BS by Danielson, IMHO>

I guess I'd agree with Danielson in the sense that if you haven't called PI the whole game, you don't suddenly throw a flag in the end zone in the last 5 minutes.

The way the good NFL crews do it is to call some PI and some offensive backfield holding in the 1st half -- that informs the players what they're going to call, and the players usually adjust their behavior.

The PI on Wallace at the end was pretty obvious and it happened because the Oregon corner knew he would be allowed to do it. They hadn't enforced the rule, so they gave him a green light to grab the jersey and essentially use Wallace to leverage himself to the ball. The INT only happened because of the hold on the jersey.

But there you can't blame the player. He sees how the rules are (not) being enforced, and he takes advantage and it's a winning play.
 
I think I counted 4 times Danielson pointed out an Oregon player "got away with one there."

My guess it was a less experienced crew and they just didn't have confidence to penalize anything that was a judgment call. The 4 PFs on PSU was bizarre, but every one of those calls looked legit to me, that's on the PSU players. The facemask on Rojas was flagrant.

Not making any attempt to call PI or offensive backfield holding is bad though. You can't call everything, you don't even call most of it, but you have to call SOME of it or things get out of control.
So you’ve seen a replay of what 14 did on the kickoff that got him 15 yards (1 of the 4). Was it flagrant? I haven’t seen a clear picture and on the broadcast they couldn’t even find him.
 
we can beat both SMU and Boise State...assume we then get Georgia in the Semi's..whoa Nellie ! Also..I bet Ohio State beats Oregon 2nd time around..
I don't believe tOSU beats Oregon. Bad match-up for tOSU. They can't run the ball.
 
I guess I'd agree with Danielson in the sense that if you haven't called PI the whole game, you don't suddenly throw a flag in the end zone in the last 5 minutes.

The way the good NFL crews do it is to call some PI and some offensive backfield holding in the 1st half -- that informs the players what they're going to call, and the players usually adjust their behavior.

The PI on Wallace at the end was pretty obvious and it happened because the Oregon corner knew he would be allowed to do it. They hadn't enforced the rule, so they gave him a green light to grab the jersey and essentially use Wallace to leverage himself to the ball. The INT only happened because of the hold on the jersey.

But there you can't blame the player. He sees how the rules are (not) being enforced, and he takes advantage and it's a winning play.
Danielson’s ridiculous comment was in reference to the PF unsportsmanlike conduct not called on the our first drive of the 2nd half when Allar was thrown to the ground after the play was dead. We ended up in third and long and missed the FG.

Danielson agreed it was a PF but this was not the time to insert yourself into the game. This…..despite calling 4 PFs against PSU in the first half.
 
I guess I'd agree with Danielson in the sense that if you haven't called PI the whole game, you don't suddenly throw a flag in the end zone in the last 5 minutes.

The way the good NFL crews do it is to call some PI and some offensive backfield holding in the 1st half -- that informs the players what they're going to call, and the players usually adjust their behavior.

The PI on Wallace at the end was pretty obvious and it happened because the Oregon corner knew he would be allowed to do it. They hadn't enforced the rule, so they gave him a green light to grab the jersey and essentially use Wallace to leverage himself to the ball. The INT only happened because of the hold on the jersey.

But there you can't blame the player. He sees how the rules are (not) being enforced, and he takes advantage and it's a winning play.
I agree with that. Consistency is key. But that includes game to game, not just play to play. If you call something as PI in earlier games, you call it at PI in playoff games as well. If not, you ARE inserting yourself into the game by letting one team get away with something.
 
I guess I'd agree with Danielson in the sense that if you haven't called PI the whole game, you don't suddenly throw a flag in the end zone in the last 5 minutes.

The way the good NFL crews do it is to call some PI and some offensive backfield holding in the 1st half -- that informs the players what they're going to call, and the players usually adjust their behavior.

The PI on Wallace at the end was pretty obvious and it happened because the Oregon corner knew he would be allowed to do it. They hadn't enforced the rule, so they gave him a green light to grab the jersey and essentially use Wallace to leverage himself to the ball. The INT only happened because of the hold on the jersey.

But there you can't blame the player. He sees how the rules are (not) being enforced, and he takes advantage and it's a winning play.
Where is it written, the time of the game should influence calls on the field? Only fans and media push this. PI is PI.

The fact is, officiating in college is beyond atrocious. Whether purposeful, or incompetence, it must be addressed. Clear catches, clear targeting, clear holding, it must be called. This isn't let them play kinda stuff, this is blatant no calls when it's clear as day.
 
Where is written, the time of the game should influence calls on the field? Only fans and media push this. PI is PI.

The fact is, officiating in college is beyond atrocious. Whether purposeful, or incompetence, it must be addressed. Clear catches, clear targeting, clear holding, it must be called. This isn't let them plays stuff, this is blatant no calls when it's clear as day.
You know what happens when they call stuff properly? The fouls tend to end.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hotshoe
Which would explain why an NBA official was charged after he was found to have fixed games a few years back huh? Get off your high horse.
One among thousands.
Just proves the point that these officials are not corrupt, there is no conspiracy to screw PSU or any other team.
I’m sure there’s at least one bad apple within the profession of every one posting on this board. That doesn’t paint everyone in that profession as bad.
The good thing about sports is they get everyone excited and promote lots of interesting discussion.
The bad thing about sports is many who played a game in high school or coached Little League or just sit on a bar stool to watch think they are friggin’ experts.
Seriously, how many on this board are qualified to evaluate officials? (Hint: The answer is very few.) Yet many have gone from the occasional “That’s a bad call” all the way to accusing them of criminal acts because they only see what they want to see. One thing I can say for sure is there are far more posters on this forum guilty of libel than there are crooked officials.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nikko57
Where is it written, the time of the game should influence calls on the field? Only fans and media push this. PI is PI.

The fact is, officiating in college is beyond atrocious. Whether purposeful, or incompetence, it must be addressed. Clear catches, clear targeting, clear holding, it must be called. This isn't let them play kinda stuff, this is blatant no calls when it's clear as day.
When you don't call an offensive tackle for holding when he tackles a pass rusher you are directly influencing the game. It was clear pretty early that holding was going to be legal in this game. That really hurts a Penn State that relies so much on pass rush as part of defensive success.
 
When you don't call an offensive tackle for holding when he tackles a pass rusher you are directly influencing the game. It was clear pretty early that holding was going to be legal in this game. That really hurts a Penn State that relies so much on pass rush as part of defensive success.
And the failure to call holding really helps PSU which relies so much on its running game for offensive success.
An obvious hold out of the edge against the team a fan is rooting for is no different than the hold not as easily seen in the mosh pit up the middle by the fan’s favored team. Those fans only see (and bitch about) what they want to see. Any fan that doesn’t believe PSU holds as much as every other team is delusional.
I don’t like the way the game is sometimes called, but the fact remains “holding” is what the crew says it is that particular day.
 
A poorly officiated game. I would like to think it was incompetence, not bias. Perhaps for a game of this magnitude, 2 more officials would help. More eyes on the game as it unfolds. PSU got the short end of the stick.

1. The fair catch: the returner needs to either make a clear signal of a fair catch or no hand signal at all. It confuses the tacklers. Correct call.
2. The last interception by Oregon: the Oregon defender had a handful of the WR's jersey. That helped him to intercept the ball. Should have been DPI.
3. The refs badly missed a roughing the passer/ unnecessary roughness call on an Allar play. Play stops when the whistle blows.

You mentioned 3. I could extend the list to 10 easily. Just horrible biased officiating.

I now put Kole Knueppel in the same category as long-gone-but-not-missed Dave Witvoet and John O'Neill. You can't tell me for a second that the conference didn't pick Knueppel and his crew to do the CCG with a certain agenda in mind. Not after what we saw from those same refs in the Ohio State game.

I mean, you know it's bad when an obvious completed pass to one of our receivers...which was initially called complete on the field and totally verified on the television replay...is suddenly and inexplicably treated as an incompletion and the ball taken back to the original line of scrimmage. Danielson was, like, what's going on there. This wasn't the worst or most damaging of their screw-ups but it was perhaps the most comically obvious.

And you wonder why a lot of us hate this league and root against every one of its teams in the post-season? And no, we're not talking "criminal" or a "conspiracy." Those are red herrings used by the league's defenders to discredit the criticism or make it sound nutty. The explanation is a lot simpler: ingrained, conditioned bias that affects snap judgments combined with plain old garden-variety incompetence. But when the incompetence runs in one direction only, you know that it's being driven by bias.
 
  • Like
Reactions: johnmpsu
PSU didn't lose because of officiating.

IIRC the Evans catch that was called incomplete was followed by a big completion and eventual score. It sounds like the officials didn't have time to review it because we lined up quickly for the next play. That must have been more important than the call to Franklin.

Carter was definitely held a couple of times but IMO the staff has to understand how the game is being called and adjust accordingly. Holding or not we got a total of 1 sack and zero turnovers. Oregon used our aggressiveness against us with quick slants. I think the staff should have expected that and made adjustments. Instead they kept doing the same thing hoping for better results.

I don't know about illegal men downfield. I'd have to see that again.

In the end I think we lost because of defensive scheme and Allar's two INTs.
on that touchdown even the announcer pointed out the linemEn down field...you only get three yards, one was about 5 and a second about 7 yards. He even pointed out the problem with rpo is that linemEn don't always know whether the QB is going to run or pass. Might not have made a difference in the final outcome, but would have made a difference in that pay and a resultant yardage loss.

I would also venture that if there were linemEn down field on this play there is a pretty good chance they were down field on other rpo plays. The linemEn pretty much execute the same, or very similar way, on all rpo plays. If the QB has to hold the ball or run around in the backfield there is a better than even chance there is a lineman downfield. Only one was specifically called out.

On the final drive for Oregon the TE made an obvious push off against the DB. Again the announcer stated "looks like they got away with one there". That was an understatement.
 
on that touchdown even the announcer pointed out the linemEn down field...you only get three yards, one was about 5 and a second about 7 yards. He even pointed out the problem with rpo is that linemEn don't always know whether the QB is going to run or pass. Might not have made a difference in the final outcome, but would have made a difference in that pay and a resultant yardage loss.

I would also venture that if there were linemEn down field on this play there is a pretty good chance they were down field on other rpo plays. The linemEn pretty much execute the same, or very similar way, on all rpo plays. If the QB has to hold the ball or run around in the backfield there is a better than even chance there is a lineman downfield. Only one was specifically called out.

On the final drive for Oregon the TE made an obvious push off against the DB. Again the announcer stated "looks like they got away with one there". That was an understatement.
Not disagreeing with anything you typed.
Just adding a couple points.
Did you - or anybody - notice the lineman downfield on the original live play? Or did it get noticed on replay? I sure didn’t notice it live. And game officials don’t see replays.
These are bang-bang plays. One or two steps take that lineman from legal to downfield. These are the type of “away from the ball” action that get missed all the time. Only so many eyes to watch 22 players scattered all over the field.
Second point: You aren’t going to see a OPI call on that receiver very often. From a PSU point of view, you don’t want that in general because Warren is one of the best in the country at “creating space” to catch the football.
 
A poorly officiated game. I would like to think it was incompetence, not bias. Perhaps for a game of this magnitude, 2 more officials would help. More eyes on the game as it unfolds. PSU got the short end of the stick.

1. The fair catch: the returner needs to either make a clear signal of a fair catch or no hand signal at all. It confuses the tacklers. Correct call.
2. The last interception by Oregon: the Oregon defender had a handful of the WR's jersey. That helped him to intercept the ball. Should have been DPI.
3. The refs badly missed a roughing the passer/ unnecessary roughness call on an Allar play. Play stops when the whistle blows.
Thanks for the thoughts.

1. I don't think that is how the rule is written. If you have a version of the rule that says that, can you please cite it.
2. Agreed.
3. Also agreed. Maybe you let that go had you not called two fairly soft unnecessary roughness penalties against PSU, but if you are calling soft ones you HAVE to call that "hard" one.
 
Every team in every sport at the high school level is (or should be) taught to adjust to the way each game is being officiated. And if they fail to adjust, they’ve got no room to bitch.
Coaches want the game to be called consistently. That seems to be the case for most plays last night.
Like it or not — and I’m not saying I like it — holding is what the officials say it is. Nobody else’s opinion matters. Certainly not the opinion of fans on a message board who have never officiated a play in their lives.
Most fans only see (or want to see) the calls in a way that favors their team. I didn’t see a single post that said PSU should have been called for a penalty. Not one — all season.
For every complaint PSU had about non-calls, Oregon fans can find an equal number against PSU linemen. Does anyone believe PSU racked up all that yardage without its share of grabbed jerseys?
Do officials make mistakes? Absolutely. Do they miss things? You bet. Impossible to see everything. That’s part of the game every team knows it must overcome.
Do officials cheat? Hell no!!! And they should NEVER be accused of it without absolute proof.
I have not seen any videos of missed holding calls by the PSU OL. Were there some? I'm sure. There are lots of holding calls that don't get called. But to have ZERO holding calls in a game is silly especially when some of them so SO egregious.
 
Not disagreeing with anything you typed.
Just adding a couple points.
Did you - or anybody - notice the lineman downfield on the original live play? Or did it get noticed on replay? I sure didn’t notice it live. And game officials don’t see replays.
These are bang-bang plays. One or two steps take that lineman from legal to downfield. These are the type of “away from the ball” action that get missed all the time. Only so many eyes to watch 22 players scattered all over the field.
Second point: You aren’t going to see a OPI call on that receiver very often. From a PSU point of view, you don’t want that in general because Warren is one of the best in the country at “creating space” to catch the football.
They literally called the exact same push off against OSU in the UO game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lazydave841
Fistful of jersey on the final int:

Contact after 5 yards on the first int:

Illegal lineman downfield on 48 yard touchdown throw directly in front of an offical:

Holding, still makes tackle with the wr on his back:

Allar taken down 3 or 4 seconds after the whistle (the boys will be boys call):

OPI on 4th and 2:

Holding 4th and 2:
 
Fistful of jersey on the final int:

Contact after 5 yards on the first int:

Illegal lineman downfield on 48 yard touchdown throw directly in front of an offical:

Holding, still makes tackle with the wr on his back:

Allar taken down 3 or 4 seconds after the whistle (the boys will be boys call):

OPI on 4th and 2:

Holding 4th and 2:
Thanks for putting that together. Good stuff!

There was some Oregon fanboy on twitter trying to say the last play (holding on Carter) was a clean textbook block. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RickinDayton
I think I counted 4 times Danielson pointed out an Oregon player "got away with one there."

My guess it was a less experienced crew and they just didn't have confidence to penalize anything that was a judgment call. The 4 PFs on PSU was bizarre, but every one of those calls looked legit to me, that's on the PSU players. The facemask on Rojas was flagrant.

Not making any attempt to call PI or offensive backfield holding is bad though. You can't call everything, you don't even call most of it, but you have to call SOME of it or things get out of control.
Why is a "less experienced crew" calling the conference championship game?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Roar More
They literally called the exact same push off against OSU in the UO game.
Different day, different game, different players, different officials. Bang-bang judgement call.
PSU had multiple games where O linemen got flagged for holding multiple times. Not called once Saturday night on the “exact same” plays. That’s football.
 
So you’ve seen a replay of what 14 did on the kickoff that got him 15 yards (1 of the 4). Was it flagrant? I haven’t seen a clear picture and on the broadcast they couldn’t even find him.
He's in the upper right corner of the replay from the endzone. It's a little hard to see.

This is what I think happened:

You know how PSU (and other teams) have their kickoff team sprint to the endzone on touchbacks? Some teams/players don't like this (for whatever reason) and try to block the cover team even though the kick is obviously a touchback. The OU guy was blocking 14 (which is legal, but unnecessary). 14 gave him an extra shove after the whistle as basically a "WTF, the play is over". It was a weak flag IMHO. But if you call that, you HAVE to call the one where Allar got thrown down late.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RickinDayton
Different day, different game, different players, different officials. Bang-bang judgement call.
PSU had multiple games where O linemen got flagged for holding multiple times. Not called once Saturday night on the “exact same” plays. That’s football.
Receiver extended his arm to gain an advantage. That should be called every time.

Quit defending the refs. They sucked.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Delcolion915
Should have been McGinn as Referee.
I thought that I heard them say that it was an "all-star" crew from the B1G. there was some speculation that they hadn't worked together so there could have been communication problems. I am not sure that is 100% correct though.
 
Receiver extended his arm to gain an advantage. That should be called every time.

Quit defending the refs. They sucked.
I’m only defending the officials from claims that they are cheating and/or favoring certain teams. That’s BS. I’ve asked multiple times for proof if that is what fans believe. I get crickets.
The vast majority of people on this board do not have the ability to objectively watch a PSU football game. They wear their blue-and-white glasses and see only what they want to see from their team’s perspective.
 
I thought that I heard them say that it was an "all-star" crew from the B1G. there was some speculation that they hadn't worked together so there could have been communication problems. I am not sure that is 100% correct though.
I had heard that too (which also seems like a bad idea due to aforementioned communication issues) but for most of the missed calls you don't need to communicate to throw a flag on an obvious holding call.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Obliviax
I’m only defending the officials from claims that they are cheating and/or favoring certain teams. That’s BS. I’ve asked multiple times for proof if that is what fans believe. I get crickets.
The vast majority of people on this board do not have the ability to objectively watch a PSU football game. They wear their blue-and-white glasses and see only what they want to see from their team’s perspective.
I don't believe I've said there was collusion.

But the refs were bad.

They need to be better than that, especially in the CCG
 
Fistful of jersey on the final int:

Contact after 5 yards on the first int:

Illegal lineman downfield on 48 yard touchdown throw directly in front of an offical:

Holding, still makes tackle with the wr on his back:

Allar taken down 3 or 4 seconds after the whistle (the boys will be boys call):

OPI on 4th and 2:

Holding 4th and 2:
 
I’m only defending the officials from claims that they are cheating and/or favoring certain teams. That’s BS. I’ve asked multiple times for proof if that is what fans believe. I get crickets.
The vast majority of people on this board do not have the ability to objectively watch a PSU football game. They wear their blue-and-white glasses and see only what they want to see from their team’s perspective.

Fa-wart!!!!
 
Danielson’s ridiculous comment was in reference to the PF unsportsmanlike conduct not called on the our first drive of the 2nd half when Allar was thrown to the ground after the play was dead. We ended up in third and long and missed the FG.

Danielson agreed it was a PF but this was not the time to insert yourself into the game. This…..despite calling 4 PFs against PSU in the first half.

It was Oregon LB Boettcher (#28) - and it was a flagrant "Unnecessary Roughness" penalty as they gang-tackled Allar and pushed him back several yards as he didn't go down - once his forward progress was stopped (and they were pushing him backwards) all of the Officials began sounding their whistles - at which point most of the Oregon defenders dropped off. This is now several seconds into all of the Officials sounding their whistles. At this point Boettcher is still pushing Allar backwards by himself then, now probably 5 seconds after the Officials are all sounding their whistles (and sounding them continuously the entire time), Boettcher essentially body-drops Allar landing on top of him with his full weight. No flag.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU2UNC
When was singleton grabbed on the pass up the middle? Don't remember and dont want to rewatch the whole game to find it.
 
Did you - or anybody - notice the lineman downfield on the original live play? Or did it get noticed on replay? I sure didn’t notice it live
There is a referee standing side by side with the one OL, and adjacent to the other. It's that officials job to call that stuff, or even the referee behind the play. The live version of the play showed up the QB rolling out. We couldn't see it because it wasn't offered to the TV viewing audience.

You aren’t going to see a OPI call on that receiver very often

Smith, OSU, same exact scenario. Flag thrown.

Same referee crew from that game did this one I believe, but I don't have the details to verify it.

If you want to stand by the calls not affecting the outcome, by all means, that's absolutely fine and you are free to do so.

Quit acting like these were tough calls to spot. I don't have a clue if it was incompetence or bias or something worse, but these were clearly terribly blown calls and its a garbage take to defend their happening.

Somehow this crew managed to catch every time our players did anything wrong and somehow they failed to see Oregon doing anything. The hold on DDS tends to always draw a flag at all levels, but I guess since they didn't flag us for holding they let it go?
 
1. 20 years ago that was interference. I don't know anymore since they allow so much hand fighting. Still a lot of jersey in his hand.

2. Interesting to see how much contact there was on Dinkins. Allar seemed to check down to Dinkins, except he had been pushed away from his pattern for the entire play. Allar didn't have time to figure that out. He had to get the ball out or run.

3. I can understand this one not being called even though there was a clear penalty. Away from the play. Just hope that no call is not made against us in the same situation.

4. The blocker actually made the tackle. Our guy just got caught in the middle of it. Clear and flagrant hold. I don't remember the down and distance, but we may have declined and taken the loss. BUT a flagrant hold like that must be called.

5. The slam of Allar must be called. No excuses.

6. The tight end ran his pattern, took a turn to our guy, and extended his arms fully to get separation. Clear PI. However, I get it that receivers get away with this a lot. I don't know if refs choose to ignore this, but this route was pretty egregious.

7. The NFL enacted the James Harrison rule to allow tackles to hook with their arm out as long as they didn't grab. Harrison was too strong and low for tackles to stop him. The refs are allowing teams to go beyond the Harrison rule with Carter by a lot.
For old times sake: Lavar Arrington. The most physically dominant player I ever saw, was never held in the Big 10. The refs chose not to give him any calls (I could have missed one or two in blowouts, but I sure don't remember any). Courtney Brown ditto.
 
1. 20 years ago that was interference. I don't know anymore since they allow so much hand fighting. Still a lot of jersey in his hand.

2. Interesting to see how much contact there was on Dinkins. Allar seemed to check down to Dinkins, except he had been pushed away from his pattern for the entire play. Allar didn't have time to figure that out. He had to get the ball out or run.

3. I can understand this one not being called even though there was a clear penalty. Away from the play. Just hope that no call is not made against us in the same situation.

4. The blocker actually made the tackle. Our guy just got caught in the middle of it. Clear and flagrant hold. I don't remember the down and distance, but we may have declined and taken the loss. BUT a flagrant hold like that must be called.

5. The slam of Allar must be called. No excuses.

6. The tight end ran his pattern, took a turn to our guy, and extended his arms fully to get separation. Clear PI. However, I get it that receivers get away with this a lot. I don't know if refs choose to ignore this, but this route was pretty egregious.

7. The NFL enacted the James Harrison rule to allow tackles to hook with their arm out as long as they didn't grab. Harrison was too strong and low for tackles to stop him. The refs are allowing teams to go beyond the Harrison rule with Carter by a lot.
For old times sake: Lavar Arrington. The most physically dominant player I ever saw, was never held in the Big 10. The refs chose not to give him any calls (I could have missed one or two in blowouts, but I sure don't remember any). Courtney Brown ditto.

OSU game costing OPI for comparison. Oregon's Tight End absolutely should have ben flagged.

 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU2UNC
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT