first, he was doing his duty. Second, he was physically threatened and threatened back with the tow bar but it was never used. Again, first one to lay hands on someone, to get physical, loses in the eyes of the law.
Abdul Carter
- Thread starter knickslions
- Start date
Carter did not lay hands on him prior to the threat with a deadly weapon. He blocked the guy's entry to the vehicle which a very high percentage of young people trying pay a drop fee would do if the guy ignored his efforts and attempted to drive off with his vehicle (it's not a beater, this is an expensive vehicle).
And in law, you cannot make a threat with a deadly weapon because someone blocks your entry to a vehicle. This tow driver should be charged.
I think you need to read the article again. Carter used his forearm to prevent the tow truck driver from entering the vehicle. Then, the tow truck driver grabbed the metal bar from the back of the truck and yelled at Carter to back away.
One thing no one mentioned. Hope he loses a ton of NIL money. What company now wants him as their public face?
I am guessing this behavior violates several terms of any NIL agreements. Could cost him a lot of money, which is well deserved.
And he should sit a game. Even if you consider players to be professional athletes they still represent the university. At many companies this could a fireable offense or at least suspension. And do so for employees far less visible than athletes and their endorsement deals.
Look at Tiger and how he got dropped after his meltdown. And many other athletes have lost a ton after criminal behavior.
I am guessing this behavior violates several terms of any NIL agreements. Could cost him a lot of money, which is well deserved.
And he should sit a game. Even if you consider players to be professional athletes they still represent the university. At many companies this could a fireable offense or at least suspension. And do so for employees far less visible than athletes and their endorsement deals.
Look at Tiger and how he got dropped after his meltdown. And many other athletes have lost a ton after criminal behavior.
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You're altering the story. Carter used intimidation which caused the driver to threaten to defend himself then Carter becomes violent. Carter was the instigator and actor.
Penn State Football Player Accused of Assaulting Tow Truck Driver
A star Penn State football player is facing a misdemeanor assault charge after a confrontation with a tow truck driver last month in College Township.www.statecollege.com
Just great. Our best player on D.
Realistically, however, assuming this is a first offense, I don't think a misdemeanor charge of this sort will end up amounting to much as long as Abdul keeps his nose perfectly clean in the coming months.
It is unfortunate of course that the tow operator sustained a rib injury, but you have to wonder if he could have himself somehow deescalated the situation. I mean, it's a pretty upsetting thing to witness your vehicle suddenly being towed in the middle of the night. Tends to put people on edge.
At any rate, I do think the description of some crucial moments in the confrontation raises a lot of questions:
>>Carter went back inside to get money to pay a drop fee, but, he told police, he wanted to be sure his car wasn’t being stolen, and when he returned to the vehicle he questioned the driver about his authority to tow. The driver informed him that Halfmoon has a contract to enforce parking violations at the complex, and that Carter would need to provide a name and address for the car to be released.
After Carter refused to provide the information, police wrote, the driver resumed the process of hooking up the car for towing. As the driver returned to the tow truck, Carter told him he was going to call 911 and used his forearm to block the driver from getting inside, according to the affidavit.<<
So did Carter have the money to pay the drop fee and did he attempt to do so? Did the tow operator need Carter's name and address in addition to the drop fee or in lieu of it? Why did Carter refuse to provide such basic information?
Did Carter know he had parked illicitly? Could he have had a reasonable concern there in the parking lot after midnight that the tow operator was either mistaken or acting improperly? Was Carter's threat to call 911 a product of such concerns? I think these are all important but unanswered questions.
Moronic but hardly “calculated”. Don’t disagree that he needs to be punished.
Carter is totally in the wrong. He violated a parking law and then didn't like he was being held accountable so he physically prevented the man from doing his job. He's lucky the guy didn't have a gun and shoot him because Carter is a big guy and he's physically dragging the guy out of his truck and maybe the guy thinks Carter is going to pound him.Penn State Football Player Accused of Assaulting Tow Truck Driver
A star Penn State football player is facing a misdemeanor assault charge after a confrontation with a tow truck driver last month in College Township.
Carter acted like an entitled thug and he should be charged with a felony.
"threat" is meaningless. the driver can also argue he felt threatened. Again, first guy who gets physical loses. right or wrong, that's the way it is. I will add that Carter is certainly more physically intimidating that a random tow truck op.
From the article linked above, the tow truck driver brandished a metal rod.
Any attorneys or LE want to chime in as to whether someone threatening you with a weapon changes the calculus of what is and what isn't acceptable in terms of using force to defend yourself?
Brandishing a deadly weapon definitely changes the situation.
I haven't altered any facts about the story. Reread it. In fact, those arguing that the tow driver should get off scot-free have actually altered the facts of the report to make their case.
After Carter tried to pay for a drop and after the driver continued to hook up the tow and then attempt to drive away, Carter put his forearm in the way of the door. I would think if you were trying to pay for a drop and the guy continued like he was going to tow it then blocking his entry with a forearm is reasonable. He didn't shove him as some have mistakenly stated. He tried to extend the negotiation of paying for the drop.
The incident escalated to violence when the driver picked up a metal tow bar and threatened Carter. That is why this tow driver needs to be charged as well. You cannot have tow drivers threatening students with deadly weapons.
Based on what I read, the alleged assault happened after the driver entered hi tow truck, so I would think the metal rod wasn't in the face of Abdul anymore. Then the latter pulls him out of the truck and throws him down...not really sure splitting hairs about Abdul and his actions makes a ton of sense.
And why did he brandish the rod sir? Did it have anything to do with Carter physically preventing him from entering his vehicle. The answer is yes. In other words if Carter didn't do what he did the other action isn't necessary.
After Carter refused to provide the information, police wrote, the driver resumed the process of hooking up the car for towing. As the driver returned to the tow truck, Carter told him he was going to call 911 and used his forearm to block the driver from getting inside, according to the affidavit.
The driver, police wrote, grabbed a metal bar off the back of the truck and yelled at Carter to back away, which he did. When the driver got inside the tow truck, witness video showed that Carter wrapped his arms around the man’s abdomen and forcefully pulled multiple times to break his grip from the steering wheel, according to the affidavit.
According to the article, Carter physically blocked the driver from doing his job (as was contracted for by the parking lot company). The driver told him to "back away". That is not a threat, nor is holding a metal bar a threat. Especially after Carter physically tried to block the driver from doing his duty.
Carter is wrong here, period. he didn't pay for parking and then went off when he couldn't just pay the driver. He screwed up. Instead of taking it like a man, realizing he is suffering the consequences of his poor decision, he got physical. He should apologize, pay the guy's bill, pay him an little sumpin sumpin for his time and settle with the DI for some fine. Done and toasted.
And the tow driver is also equally totally in the wrong. He escalated the incidence to violence when he took out a deadly weapon and threatened a student. He obviously could have said, let's get local authorities out here if you are unsure of my authority to tow and to reject your offer of paying the drop fee. But instead, he chose to continue to hook the tow and then was trying to drive off while Carter was unsure of his authority to do so.
And again, you cannot have tow drivers threatening students with deadly weapons. Before threatening violence, you get local authorities out to settle the dispute. This is a student safety issue. It's bad enough that these vulters are preying on students with aggressive tows. Ask students at UP that drive if they or someone they know have been towed on very short notice and in unclear situations. These tow companies see the students as a group of naive kids to expoloit. I personally know current students that have been victimized by the quick tow in SC.
Is he more threatening than a random tow truck op who picked up a large metal bar and threatened specifically to use it on you?
yes. Carter physically prevented him from doing his job when it was Carter's act that caused the confrontation in the first place.
In the eyes of the law, Carter doesn't have a leg to stand on. His best bet is to apologize and take the consequences like a man. He can use a little of his NIL money.
If you block my access to my vehicle trust me I'm going to threaten you to back off. Carter is 6-4 250 and is physically preventing this guy from accessing his vehicle - the driver was smart to grab something to make a possible physical altercation more even.
Nope. he was trying to do his job. Carter physically stopped him, which is a threat in and of itself. The truck driver can simply say he was protecting himself while trying to do his job against a guy who was breaking the law (not paying for parking).
And if the tow truck driver doesn't attempt to drive off with Carter's vehicle in spite of him offering to pay the drop fee and clearly being so unsure of the guy's authority to take his car that he was going to call 911, then Carter doesn't put his forearm in the way of the truck's door.
The tow driver threatened to harm a student with a deadly weapon that he brandished when it was merely a dispute without physical contact. This tow driver needs to be charged. Otherwise, how many other students are going to be threatened or have already been threatened with deadly weapons by the driver and/or this tow service?
Does student safety matter to any of you? Do any of you have young people that you care about at UP campus? Would you want someone threatening to harm your son with a deadly weapon when he was trying to resolve the issue and was unclear what the authority was?
nope. if pulled over for speeding, your defense can't be "OK, I'll just drive the speed limit for now on." Carter didn't pay the fee, the truck driver was called to tow him. Once Carter didn't pay the fee and parked his car there, he screwed himself.
you are simply wrong on this issue. Carter started it, Carter starting the physicality, Carter completed the physicality, the truck driver got hurt. Done deal. His best bet is to take the medicine and move on.
So if a worker comes to your home and tries to take your property that you are disputing their authority to take, it is ok if they brandish a large metal bar and threaten to harm you?
Both are at fault and the tow driver is the one that escalated the incident to violence. Charge the tow driver as well.
The report does not say that Carter refused to pay the fee. It says that he went inside to get money to pay it and didn't provide the information that the tow guy was insisting on and Carter was unsure of the tow's authority. In fact, he was so unsure that Carter was going to call 911.
Remember, this is a kid without a massive amount of life experience. It is legitimate for him to be unsure of the authority and policies in this situation. Yet the driver continued on and was going to drive away. Trying to prevent him from taking your property until you have clarification without laying a hand on the guy is a reasonable action. Brandishing a large metal bar and threatening to use it on a student is not a reasonable action.
Stop portraying Carter as some 12 year old who doesn't know what's going on. It's pathetic. There are rules. He's a big boy now and he knows what's he's doing. He violated the law and then he used his physical prowess to intimidate and control the situation. End of story.
So you had the life experience of a 40-year-old when you were in college? I would not have known the authority or process for paying for a drop by a tow company at that age. I have multiple higher degrees in science, but I did not have that life experience at that age.
It is clear that Carter did not either or else why was he trying to pay the drop fee, questioning the process, and saying he would call 911 when the guy was trying to drive off with his easily $50k to $100k or more vehicle without full explanation?
And none of this gives an adult with the life experience, a right to threaten to physically harm a student after midnight with a large metal bar. They both were in the wrong and they both have to be charged. There was no violence until this tow operator threatened violence with a deadly weapon. He's lucky his a$$ wasn't beaten with it. If he had done this to the wrong young man, he would have been beaten possibly to death with the weapon that he used to threaten violence.
the tow truck was called because he didn't pay for parking. He just got a new life experience. You know what he needs to learn? If you don't follow the rules, there are consequences. Don't beat up the tow truck operator for you lack of life experiences.
There isn't pay for parking. It was an apartment complex where the residents have permits. And it isn't right there near other apartments near campus. The only way to visit someone there is by driving or walking like a mile or more. I don't know if they have guest parking but otherwise, how does someone ever have guests there without someone parking without a permit?
And Carter did not beat up a truck driver. That is a lie. You also previously wrote about pushing and shoving which was not in the report. You don't have to misrepresent the facts in the official report. Carter removed him from the driver's seat when the guy was going to drive away with his property without full explanation of the authority.
And why do you feel that the tow truck driver should be free to threaten physical harm to students with a deadly weapon? Both should be charged. No one is arguing Carter should not get his misdemeanor.
I'm pretty sure that there are rules against adults threatening violence against students with deadly weapons. He needs a new life experience as well. You know what he needs to learn? That you aren't allowed to brandish deadly weapons and make specific threats of violence. If you don't follow the rules, there are consequences. Don't
Immaterial. It is pay to park and Carter hadn't paid. He can be mad about it. That is OK. But he can't get physical. The truck driver has broken ribs. At least that is what the article says.
The truck driver was not only threatened by Carter, Carter used physical restraint to disallow him to go back into his property (the truck). the truck driver can easily argue he was defending himself.
He's not equally wrong. You're losing all credibility here. Carter was the only person that was wrong.
In your opinion, if the tow truck driver had allowed AC to call 911 as it stated that he wanted to do in the article, instead of confronting him with a pipe, do you think that this could have led to a de-escalation of their confrontation?
Our laws are numerous and can vary depending on where you are at and where you are from. Seeking clarification from law enforcement is not necessarily a bad thing.
I'm not trying to excuse AC's behavior, but IMO there was a missed opportunity to peaceably resolve the situation.
Rather than have him sit out a game which only hurts thee team, how about some good old community service? Provides punishment, a wakeup call, and some. good to the community.Penn State Football Player Accused of Assaulting Tow Truck Driver
A star Penn State football player is facing a misdemeanor assault charge after a confrontation with a tow truck driver last month in College Township.
Your points are valid in my opinion. The very fact that a Tow driver obtained a metal bar to potentially use against a college student, contributed to the escalation of this incident. The Tow driver is not blameless.
I think some posters who were not there are leaping to conclusions. Until this matter goes to court and both sides are heard, we don’t know the full story. Let’s wait for the legal outcome before unfairly convicting Carter in the court of public opinion.
That isn't what happened according to the article. I'll paste it below. Carter threatened to call 911 and then barred the driver from getting into his truck. The driver never stopped Carter from calling 911.
"After Carter refused to provide the information (his ID), police wrote, the driver resumed the process of hooking up the car for towing. As the driver returned to the tow truck, Carter told him he was going to call 911 and used his forearm to block the driver from getting inside, according to the affidavit."
Interesting. Carter refused to provide info(which I don't understand). The tow driver resumed hooking the vehicle. (I'm assuming he completed that task) The driver returns to his truck to get inside to leave with AC's vehicle in tow. Carter prevents him from getting into his truck by blocking the entrance with his forearm because he doesn't want him to leave while he threatens to call 911.
Instead of the driver telling him to go ahead and call the police, he grabs a weapon to defend/attack with.
That's kind of how I was reading and interpreting it. I'm certainly not going to defend his behavior unless I was an actual eyewitness to the altercation. And that there was something to defend ...
The driver took away the 911 call option by trying to get into his vehicle and drive away with Carter's property. All of that was precipitated by the tow driver not giving Carter an opportunity to clarify if this guy taking his $50k to $100k vehicle, had the authority to do so and if that process required what the driver had told him.
Then of course, you know that the driver escalated the disagreement to violence by threatening Carter with a large metal bar. This is a crime. Carter was not the aggressor. The driver absolutely was and escalated the issue when he
1) tried to drive off with Carter's property without resolving the unclear authority,
2) threatened Carter with physical violence and brandishing a large metal bar that could kill a person, and
3) when he took Carter's cell phone.
Again, Carter is not excused for his actions. But this tow driver needs to be criminally charged. You cannot have predatory tow drivers threatening students with deadly weapons. You just cannot allow that. It is a student safety concern. This is a university and a town with a responsibility to protect the safety of a large student population.
Obli, this may be a naive question, but when you say "he didn't pay for parking," is it certain he was aware that he was not authorized to park in that lot? Was it immediately obvious that any non-resident parking there would be in jeopardy of losing his car in the middle of the night?
It could be that Carter's guilt is unquestionable. It could be that he acted like an entitled thug, has no excuse, and it's all as simple as that. As you know, I am by instinct and nature a law-and-order guy so it's not like I feel sympathy for people violating the rules.
However, just to play devil's advocate, suppose that for whatever reason he did not expect his car to be towed. So he hears the alarm and walks out the building to find some guy in the process of confiscating the vehicle in the middle of the night. This is a scenario that has a high potential for ugliness...whether the vehicle in question belongs to a 21-year old linebacker, a 45-year old insurance agent, or a 75-year old grandmother.
The account posted in the OP says Carter threatened to call 911, which a person doesn't typically do when they are knowingly in the wrong. What if the tow operator had said, fine, call 911, the police will explain it to you. I mean, it's possible that some tow operators feel a certain sense of entitlement too, but in circumstances like those described, common sense dictates caution and prudence even if you're in the right legalistically speaking.
To be clear, this is not to defend Carter or justify his behavior. It's just that there are various questions surrounding the incident that are not clear in my mind. Based on what we do know, however, this is likely going to end with the equivalent of a slap on the wrist for Carter...though I do like the idea of community service as was suggested above.
However it's adjudicated, down the road the young man would be advised to stay out of further trouble because if there's a second incident, I don't think he'll be cut much slack.
