The following are the notes I took at Centre County courthouse on Novemebr 4 regarding AM's testimony in Jerry Sandusky's evidentiary hearing associated with his PCRA.
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Judge Cleland starts the hearing by asking Sandusky if he is ok with calling AM to the stand given there is no independent information on what AM will say and that it could be helpful or harmful to the defense. Judge Cleland asks if realizes that if AM gives damaging testimony JS will not be able to make a claim of ineffective counsel. JS says he is ok with it and understands.
Judge Cleland states that he will limit AM’s testimony to 3 areas:
1. Whether Joe McGettigan made a knowingly false statement when he implied that v2 was known only to God
2. Whether the prosecution and JS’s defense made a deal not to call AM to testify at trial
3. Evidence of JS’s innocence
After a delay of several minutes, AM takes the stand and is sworn in.
Lindsay starts the questioning by asking AM his name. He asked him if he served as a Marine and he stated affirmatively from 2006-2011. He asked if he took a Marine oath and Jennifer Peterson objected and Cleland sustained her objection.
Lindsay asks AM if he knows JS. He said that he got to know his client via The Second Mile. He was referred to TSM through school. He went to TSM camp a couple of years. He went to West Branch High School, played football and graduated in 2005. Peterson objected due to relevance and Lindsay stated he was establishing a relationship between AM and JS. I believe that Cleland overruled the objection.
Lindsay asked AM if he saw JS as a father figure and AM replied affirmatively. Lindsay then showed AM a photograph of JS and AM at football camp and asked AM when the photo was taken and AM replied that he didn’t remember. He asked if it was at a youth football camp and he said yes that JS ran the camp and that he was a coach. Peterson objected due to relevance and Cleland sustained her objection.
Lindsay then asked if he ever lived at JS’s house, and AM said that he lived there briefly around 2005.
Lindsay showed another picture of AM in his marine uniform and JS and asked him if he could identify the people in the photo. He replied JS and himself. He then asked if he knew when it was taken and he replied no even though it was apparently taken at the time of his wedding.
AM was asked when he first found out about accusations against JS. He stated he was in California when he was contacted by his (Lindsay’s) client.
He was then asked if he was ever contacted by the Pennsylvania State Police. He said yes. He was then asked how the PSP contacted him and he said that a letter was posted on his mother-in-law’s front door. He was asked if he remembered an interview in September 2011 with Corporal Leiter and he said that he couldn’t remember dates and names but he recalled the interview. He was then asked if he ever read a summary of the interview and he said he didn’t recall. Lindsay then gives him the summary of the interview to refresh his memory and asked him if the summary reflects what he said. AM states that it was what he said then, but not what he would say now.
He was then asked about what Leiter and Ellis said about the person who made the accusation (I assume they are referring to AF). Peterson objected and Cleland sustained the objection.
Lindsay then asked him about workouts and polish soccer that he characterized as not strenuous. AM said he doesn’t remember, but said if that is what was written he doesn’t disagree with it. He was then asked if he said nothing inappropriate happened, that after workouts at Rec Hall or the IM building that they would go back to JS’s residence and shower separately. That at no time he felt uncomfortable, that if he did he would tell his mother. AM states it is in the report I must have said it.
AM is then asked by Lindsay if he knew Curtis Everhart. He states that he was your client’s previous attorney’s (Joe Amendola) investigator. He asked if he went to Amendola’s office twice and stated that he went to Amendola’s office only once. Lindsay then produces a report of his interview with Everhart. AM replies that he doesn’t recall seeing it before. Lindsay asked if it accurately represented what he said. He replied that he doesn’t remember, but he can’t say that it was wrong.
Were you 24 years old? Yes. Prior to the interview, did you read the Grand Jury report? No. Do you recall saying you were victim 2? Yes
Do you recall saying you were in the shower slapping towels? Peterson – objection to the characterization. Cleland – go ahead. AM –I can’t recall everything that I said. I never saw Mike McQueary. Do you recall saying the Grand Jury report said McQueary said he observed Jerry and you engaging in sexual activity, this is not the truth and McQueary is not telling the truth. Nothing occurred in the shower? If it is there, I said it.
How did you know you were the boy that night? I heard the locker close. Your client called me afterward and said that Penn State officials would be calling me. I never got a call from Penn State officials.
Did you say “Jerry never sexually assaulted me. I would have been sure if something like that happened to me. I would have called the police. What McQueary said he observed is wrong. I can’t understand why this was said. It is not the truth.” That is what I said then.
Did the interview end with Everhart asking you if everything you said was true and correct and you replied Yes, and then asking if you wanted to change anything and you said No and that you said I have told the truth? If that is what it says, Yes
Did you tell the truth? No.
Did you have the occasion to hire Andrew Shubin? Yes, for my DUI, in September 2011. For 1 or DUIs? Objection. Overruled. It was one. Did you enter a plea agreement. Objection. Sustained
Did you receive a settlement? Objection. Overruled. Yes. From whom? From Penn State. How much did you receive? Objection. Cleland asks Lindsay if he is trying to impeach his own witness. Lindsay replied Yes, I am allowed to do it. I want to show motivation for the witness changing their testimony. It is highly relevant. AM states that he is prohibited from saying how much money he received in the settlement as part of the agreement he made with Penn State.
Do you remember your interview with Inspector Corricelli in February 2012. Objection. Lindsay – I am trying to get the witness to authenticate what he said. Overruled. Yes. I can’t say verbatim what I said. I can’t remember 100% of everything I said. Do you remember saying that you are victim 2? Yes. That appears to be what I said. Were attorneys Andrew Shubin and Justine Andronici present. The interview started at 10:15 am and ended at 1:20 pm, around 3 hours. I don’t remember. Did you read the transcript? I glanced at it. Take your time and read. Objection. Sustained.
Did you testify at Mr. Sandusky’s trial? No. Where were you? Somewhere in Central Pennsylvania, in Centre, Clinton, or Clearfield county. I don’t remember exactly where I was.
Do you remember Ken Cummings. Yes. I had just brought my new born son home from the hospital. I told him to get the **** off my property. Lindsay – no further questions.
Cross examination by Jennifer Peterson.
Have you ever been sexually abused. AM – Yes
Re-direct
Were you aware that attorney Shubin met with the prosecution? I don’t know. I hired Mr. Shubin for guidance. Did you hire him to get some money? Cleland – isn’t the answer obvious.
Jerry Sandusky called to the stand.
Did you every sexually abuse AM in any way? Absolutely not
Additional Observations
AM had a large bushy beard and glasses and appeared to me to be older than 29. He stared straight ahead throughout his testimony and was continuously drinking water.
Spectators in the courtroom included Bernie McCue and Anthony Lubrano.
Al Lindsay took questions on the courthouse steps after the hearing ended. John Ziegler then made a statement and was willing to provide the 2 pictures that Lindsay put into evidence of AM and JS together to any of the press members that wanted them. He asked the press if they had any questions and they didn’t have any.
Justine Andronici then walked up to microphone accompanied by Jennifer Storm and made a statement that she represented AM and that AM was so brave to testify truthfully and that his story was one of the worst cases of abuse by Sandusky and it was obvious to everyone that he was telling the truth. This was met with a lot of jeers and challenging comments from onlookers. She then said she wouldn’t take any questions, but would be willing to talk with select members of the media. The only person I saw her talking to was Charles Thompson of Pennlive.
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Judge Cleland starts the hearing by asking Sandusky if he is ok with calling AM to the stand given there is no independent information on what AM will say and that it could be helpful or harmful to the defense. Judge Cleland asks if realizes that if AM gives damaging testimony JS will not be able to make a claim of ineffective counsel. JS says he is ok with it and understands.
Judge Cleland states that he will limit AM’s testimony to 3 areas:
1. Whether Joe McGettigan made a knowingly false statement when he implied that v2 was known only to God
2. Whether the prosecution and JS’s defense made a deal not to call AM to testify at trial
3. Evidence of JS’s innocence
After a delay of several minutes, AM takes the stand and is sworn in.
Lindsay starts the questioning by asking AM his name. He asked him if he served as a Marine and he stated affirmatively from 2006-2011. He asked if he took a Marine oath and Jennifer Peterson objected and Cleland sustained her objection.
Lindsay asks AM if he knows JS. He said that he got to know his client via The Second Mile. He was referred to TSM through school. He went to TSM camp a couple of years. He went to West Branch High School, played football and graduated in 2005. Peterson objected due to relevance and Lindsay stated he was establishing a relationship between AM and JS. I believe that Cleland overruled the objection.
Lindsay asked AM if he saw JS as a father figure and AM replied affirmatively. Lindsay then showed AM a photograph of JS and AM at football camp and asked AM when the photo was taken and AM replied that he didn’t remember. He asked if it was at a youth football camp and he said yes that JS ran the camp and that he was a coach. Peterson objected due to relevance and Cleland sustained her objection.
Lindsay then asked if he ever lived at JS’s house, and AM said that he lived there briefly around 2005.
Lindsay showed another picture of AM in his marine uniform and JS and asked him if he could identify the people in the photo. He replied JS and himself. He then asked if he knew when it was taken and he replied no even though it was apparently taken at the time of his wedding.
AM was asked when he first found out about accusations against JS. He stated he was in California when he was contacted by his (Lindsay’s) client.
He was then asked if he was ever contacted by the Pennsylvania State Police. He said yes. He was then asked how the PSP contacted him and he said that a letter was posted on his mother-in-law’s front door. He was asked if he remembered an interview in September 2011 with Corporal Leiter and he said that he couldn’t remember dates and names but he recalled the interview. He was then asked if he ever read a summary of the interview and he said he didn’t recall. Lindsay then gives him the summary of the interview to refresh his memory and asked him if the summary reflects what he said. AM states that it was what he said then, but not what he would say now.
He was then asked about what Leiter and Ellis said about the person who made the accusation (I assume they are referring to AF). Peterson objected and Cleland sustained the objection.
Lindsay then asked him about workouts and polish soccer that he characterized as not strenuous. AM said he doesn’t remember, but said if that is what was written he doesn’t disagree with it. He was then asked if he said nothing inappropriate happened, that after workouts at Rec Hall or the IM building that they would go back to JS’s residence and shower separately. That at no time he felt uncomfortable, that if he did he would tell his mother. AM states it is in the report I must have said it.
AM is then asked by Lindsay if he knew Curtis Everhart. He states that he was your client’s previous attorney’s (Joe Amendola) investigator. He asked if he went to Amendola’s office twice and stated that he went to Amendola’s office only once. Lindsay then produces a report of his interview with Everhart. AM replies that he doesn’t recall seeing it before. Lindsay asked if it accurately represented what he said. He replied that he doesn’t remember, but he can’t say that it was wrong.
Were you 24 years old? Yes. Prior to the interview, did you read the Grand Jury report? No. Do you recall saying you were victim 2? Yes
Do you recall saying you were in the shower slapping towels? Peterson – objection to the characterization. Cleland – go ahead. AM –I can’t recall everything that I said. I never saw Mike McQueary. Do you recall saying the Grand Jury report said McQueary said he observed Jerry and you engaging in sexual activity, this is not the truth and McQueary is not telling the truth. Nothing occurred in the shower? If it is there, I said it.
How did you know you were the boy that night? I heard the locker close. Your client called me afterward and said that Penn State officials would be calling me. I never got a call from Penn State officials.
Did you say “Jerry never sexually assaulted me. I would have been sure if something like that happened to me. I would have called the police. What McQueary said he observed is wrong. I can’t understand why this was said. It is not the truth.” That is what I said then.
Did the interview end with Everhart asking you if everything you said was true and correct and you replied Yes, and then asking if you wanted to change anything and you said No and that you said I have told the truth? If that is what it says, Yes
Did you tell the truth? No.
Did you have the occasion to hire Andrew Shubin? Yes, for my DUI, in September 2011. For 1 or DUIs? Objection. Overruled. It was one. Did you enter a plea agreement. Objection. Sustained
Did you receive a settlement? Objection. Overruled. Yes. From whom? From Penn State. How much did you receive? Objection. Cleland asks Lindsay if he is trying to impeach his own witness. Lindsay replied Yes, I am allowed to do it. I want to show motivation for the witness changing their testimony. It is highly relevant. AM states that he is prohibited from saying how much money he received in the settlement as part of the agreement he made with Penn State.
Do you remember your interview with Inspector Corricelli in February 2012. Objection. Lindsay – I am trying to get the witness to authenticate what he said. Overruled. Yes. I can’t say verbatim what I said. I can’t remember 100% of everything I said. Do you remember saying that you are victim 2? Yes. That appears to be what I said. Were attorneys Andrew Shubin and Justine Andronici present. The interview started at 10:15 am and ended at 1:20 pm, around 3 hours. I don’t remember. Did you read the transcript? I glanced at it. Take your time and read. Objection. Sustained.
Did you testify at Mr. Sandusky’s trial? No. Where were you? Somewhere in Central Pennsylvania, in Centre, Clinton, or Clearfield county. I don’t remember exactly where I was.
Do you remember Ken Cummings. Yes. I had just brought my new born son home from the hospital. I told him to get the **** off my property. Lindsay – no further questions.
Cross examination by Jennifer Peterson.
Have you ever been sexually abused. AM – Yes
Re-direct
Were you aware that attorney Shubin met with the prosecution? I don’t know. I hired Mr. Shubin for guidance. Did you hire him to get some money? Cleland – isn’t the answer obvious.
Jerry Sandusky called to the stand.
Did you every sexually abuse AM in any way? Absolutely not
Additional Observations
AM had a large bushy beard and glasses and appeared to me to be older than 29. He stared straight ahead throughout his testimony and was continuously drinking water.
Spectators in the courtroom included Bernie McCue and Anthony Lubrano.
Al Lindsay took questions on the courthouse steps after the hearing ended. John Ziegler then made a statement and was willing to provide the 2 pictures that Lindsay put into evidence of AM and JS together to any of the press members that wanted them. He asked the press if they had any questions and they didn’t have any.
Justine Andronici then walked up to microphone accompanied by Jennifer Storm and made a statement that she represented AM and that AM was so brave to testify truthfully and that his story was one of the worst cases of abuse by Sandusky and it was obvious to everyone that he was telling the truth. This was met with a lot of jeers and challenging comments from onlookers. She then said she wouldn’t take any questions, but would be willing to talk with select members of the media. The only person I saw her talking to was Charles Thompson of Pennlive.
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