Article on repressed memory therapy

[LaJolla Lion]

Do most people realize that there wasn't any proof presented at the trial that he did do these things to the accusers, just them saying that he did them. Shouldn't that account for something?

It is not up to the defense to prove he didn't do it, how do you prove a negative. The prosecution must prove that he did it. Plus he's not required to take the stand, and he's claiming that Amendola talked him out of taking the stand and that he wanted to defend himself. That's one of the reasons he claiming ineffective counsel.

It's easy to say, "oh I would take the stand and defend myself" but when your lawyer thinks that the trial is going well for you and that you don't need to take the stand and that it's a risk, then you would probably listen to your lawyer.

Just think about it for a minute, if a child or a female colleague accused you of sexually abusing them....Now prove that you didn't do it. It just their word against yours and the way the social climate is currently you are Guilty until proven innocent.

So go ahead and try to prove that the two of you weren't alone for a specific period of time and you didn't do what they say you did to them. And now also remember that these accusers didn't even have to prove a day or time of occurrence.

Think about how your life would be destroyed by someone making that claim.

Jerry was like a "second Dad" to these guys. He was so good to them that they all got to be adults and decided let's burn this guy for money. The guy was something so good to me as a child so I want to stick it to him as an adult? They all felt that way? Jerry had access to all of them and could not refute a single one of them. It wasn't one or two kids that did this, but 9 that testified I believe. Do you really think 9 people that Jerry helped just felt like burning him for money? If so your view of humanity is very different than mine. If all of the victims that testified made this whole thing up, they are all pretty much at the genius level in terms of criminals. Sick and twisted too.....or maybe Jerry molested a bunch of kids.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

Don't tell me you're innocent. Because it insults my intelligence. It makes me very angry.

 

[mcm265]

Topics like these are what I have to defend when I'm at work or social functions with non-PSU folks. They all think we are some crazy lunatic cult. THIS TOPIC REINFORCES THOSE ASSUMPTIONS. This is a pathetic post. And I hope to God you have zero supporters. Shame on you.

 

[mcm265]

and changing the Topic Title after-the-fact doesn't make you any less pathetic, in my opinion. You are the problem.

 

[Rollin Stone]

Jerry was like a "second Dad" to these guys. He was so good to them that they all got to be adults and decided let's burn this guy for money. The guy was something so good to me as a child so I want to stick it to him as an adult? They all felt that way? Jerry had access to all of them and could not refute a single one of them. It wasn't one or two kids that did this, but 9 that testified I believe. Do you really think 9 people that Jerry helped just felt like burning him for money? If so your view of humanity is very different than mine. If all of the victims that testified made this whole thing up, they are all pretty much at the genius level in terms of criminals. Sick and twisted too.....or maybe Jerry molested a bunch of kids.

They burned PSU for money not Jerry. And the OAG, Shubin and others let them know that there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

 

[step.eng69]

Just think about it for a minute, if a child or a female colleague accused you of sexually abusing them....Now prove that you didn't do it

In the past five years, several times I have been in the restroom alone when a child comes in for a wiz. I start thinking of the sentence above in bold print & get the heck out of there promptly. I'll return when the kid is done and out.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

They burned PSU for money not Jerry. And the OAG, Shubin and others let them know that there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

So you think everyone out there would take millions just to send someone to jail? Someone they admired? I don't doubt there are people out there that could and would do that, but I didn't realize how many there were and how they all just happened to know Jerry. What do you think the odds were of that?

 

[NitFan1974]

Topics like these are what I have to defend when I'm at work or social functions with non-PSU folks. They all think we are some crazy lunatic cult. THIS TOPIC REINFORCES THOSE ASSUMPTIONS. This is a pathetic post. And I hope to God you have zero supporters. Shame on you.

No their idiotic unquestioning belief in the false narrative that Joe covered up for a pedophile that raped kids at Penn State is the reason you have to defend against non-PSU folks. Stop blaming the victims here, and put the blame where it belongs - on the little liars that bilked money out of our BOT!

 

[Rollin Stone]

So you think everyone out there would take millions just to send someone to jail? Someone they admired? I don't doubt there are people out there that could and would do that, but I didn't realize how many there were and how they all just happened to know Jerry. What do you think the odds were of that?

I am not trying to start an argument with you just an opposing view that is not out of the realm of possibility.

But obviously, the OAG and the investigators found a number of them that would make the allegations for money. Do you know about the ones they asked and they refused to make those allegations? David Hilton testified at Trial, Frankie Probst from the same home town as aaron Fischer is another. Probst was interview in an article regarding it I believe.

How about this Hilton that testified, after he finished was taken into the Judge's chambers and questioned by the Judge and McGettigan. They pressured him with regard to saying that he was lying and that JS actually did something to him. And he actually stood up to them saying that JS never did anything to him.

You know why he was called in, because his Uncle called McGettigan saying that JS had worked and mentored him. That's all it took so the OAG trying to pressure the kid to change his testimony. So was it a fair trial?

 

[getmyjive11]

In the past five years, several times I have been in the restroom alone when a child comes in for a wiz. I start thinking of the sentence above in bold print & get the heck out of there promptly. I'll return when the kid is done and out.

If the kid ever reported you (falsely), would it just be a case between you and him or would there be 9 other victims involved? Would you take the stand to defend yourself or just let the victim accuse you of things that you didn't do?

 

[getmyjive11]

No their idiotic unquestioning belief in the false narrative that Joe covered up for a pedophile that raped kids at Penn State is the reason you have to defend against non-PSU folks. Stop blaming the victims here, and put the blame where it belongs - on the little liars that bilked money out of our BOT!

Good Lord, this isn't even about Joe Paterno, it's about Sandusky's guilt.

 

[step.eng69]

Topics like these are what I have to defend when I'm at work or social functions with non-PSU folks. They all think we are some crazy lunatic cult. THIS TOPIC REINFORCES THOSE ASSUMPTIONS. This is a pathetic post. And I hope to God you have zero supporters. Shame on you.

WE ARE a crazy lunatic group. Haven't you seen that mentioned in the MSM. The MSM and corruption in the state laid this cross on us 4 1/2 years ago for having asked the hard, obvious & sensible questions of the entities that are really responsible.

 

[Rollin Stone]

If the kid ever reported you (falsely), would it just be a case between you and him or would there be 9 other victims involved? Would you take the stand to defend yourself or just let the victim accuse you of things that you didn't do?

If your lawyer told you not to take the stand because he thinks that your case is going well, would you still take it? Most lawyers advise their clients not to take the stand if they don't have to.

Also you are clumping them altogether and not taking each individually how the Investigators could have and (on tape) did manipulate the accusers statements.

 

[pandaczar12]

So you must support awarding Jerry a new trial. Otherwise, through what process might this possibility be explored?

I'll say, I don't really care one way or the other about JS, and while maybe it's just the media bias, I've always leaned towards him being guilty.

But I find it ironic that some need "hard evidence" that the victims are lying, but required no hard evidence to prove they were actually victims in the first place.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

In the past five years, several times I have been in the restroom alone when a child comes in for a wiz. I start thinking of the sentence above in bold print & get the heck out of there promptly. I'll return when the kid is done and out.

I actually know someone that went through a living hell from something along the lines of what you feared. He was an elementary school teacher, male, single, and in his 40s (or early 50s). Out of the blue, he was arrested and charged based on the claims of a young boy who said this individual had sexually assaulted him in a mall bathroom. Only 2 people were in the bathroom -- the kid and the teacher, so it made it pretty difficult to defend against the charges. The teacher was placed on leave without pay by the school district, and was barely able to pay his bills as he had trouble getting any work due to the charges.

It took a very long time for the process to work through, but after 1.5 - 2 years, a judge dropped all charges due to significant inconsistencies in the various statements and court testimony by the boy.

The teacher ended up getting his back pay, and his former teaching position, and has since gotten married. All that said, I doubt any person would want to go through what this person lived through.

 

[mcm265]

No their idiotic unquestioning belief in the false narrative that Joe covered up for a pedophile that raped kids at Penn State is the reason you have to defend against non-PSU folks. Stop blaming the victims here, and put the blame where it belongs - on the little liars that bilked money out of our BOT!

I am speechless.

 

[Rollin Stone]

I actually know someone that went through a living hell from something along the lines of what you feared. He was an elementary school teacher, male, single, and in his 40s (or early 50s). Out of the blue, he was arrested and charged based on the claims of a young boy who said this individual had sexually assaulted him in a mall bathroom. Only 2 people were in the bathroom -- the kid and the teacher, so it made it pretty difficult to defend against the charges. The teacher was placed on leave without pay by the school district, and was barely able to pay his bills as he had trouble getting any work due to the charges.

It took a very long time for the process to work through, but after 1.5 - 2 years, a judge dropped all charges due to significant inconsistencies in the various statements and court testimony by the boy.

The teacher ended up getting his back pay, and his former teaching position, and has since gotten married. All that said, I doubt any person would want to go through what this person lived through.

This is why teachers and anyone else that works with youth are told to never, NEVER, EVER be in a room alone with a student/child with the door closed. too risky.

The allegation itself is enough to destroy a person, they don't have to be guilty.

 

[marshall23]

So you think everyone out there would take millions just to send someone to jail? Someone they admired? I don't doubt there are people out there that could and would do that, but I didn't realize how many there were and how they all just happened to know Jerry. What do you think the odds were of that?

I don't think you are taking into account the individuals who accused Jerry.During my teaching career, I worked several summers teaching court placed adolescents. They were ruthless and dangerous.Jerry's accusers were young adults who, by all accounts came from extremely disadvantaged back rounds. If in fact JS abused them, he may have only been one of the adults that did. These young men were probably not going to be doctors, lawyers and indian chiefs. I'll bet many have extensive criminal records. We know LE repeatedly enticed them to embellish their stories (which changed over time).
Taking a gift of millions when you can't hold a minimum wage job, never had a nickle, has got to be tempting.
As I've said before, I think JS put himself in the cross hairs. His propensity to shower with these kids and bear hug etc. is not easy to explain away. I just want to see a trial where he has good representation and the bs from the prosecution is eliminated. I think he still gets convicted on some counts.....but I am of the mind the oral, anal stuff never happened.

 

[getmyjive11]

If your lawyer told you not to take the stand because he thinks that your case is going well, would you still take it? Most lawyers advise their clients not to take the stand if they don't have to.

Also you are clumping them altogether and not taking each individually how the Investigators could have and (on tape) did manipulate the accusers statements.

Come on now, he wasn't advised not to take the stand because his case was going well, it was because he was getting slaughtered and had no defense. His lawyer didn't want Jerry to pull another Costas interview out of his ass.

And yeah, I would take the stand if I was accused of something that I didn't do. I would make sure to let my lawyer know my intentions before the trial even began.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I am not trying to start an argument with you just an opposing view that is not out of the realm of possibility.

But obviously, the OAG and the investigators found a number of them that would make the allegations for money. Do you know about the ones they asked and they refused to make those allegations? David Hilton testified at Trial, Frankie Probst from the same home town as aaron Fischer is another. Probst was interview in an article regarding it I believe.

How about this Hilton that testified, after he finished was taken into the Judge's chambers and questioned by the Judge and McGettigan. They pressured him with regard to saying that he was lying and that JS actually did something to him. And he actually stood up to them saying that JS never did anything to him.

You know why he was called in, because his Uncle called McGettigan saying that JS had worked and mentored him. That's all it took so the OAG trying to pressure the kid to change his testimony. So was it a fair trial?

You're missing my point. That is quite a few people in on this. People that Jerry cared for and helped mentor. That is pretty f--ked up they all lied to bury him just for some money. Damn...that is outright cold. Anything is possible, but that doesn't make it probable. I think even if he gets a new trial PSU will always have a sub set of fans who will deny this occurred. They need to for some reason to validate some things in their head. I'm not a shrink and you can think what you need to.

 

[step.eng69]

If the kid ever reported you (falsely), would it just be a case between you and him or would there be 9 other victims involved? Would you take the stand to defend yourself or just let the victim accuse you of things that you didn't do?

I don't have the money to engage a prominent attorney so I'll have to make do with a county defense lawyer. To anticipate my prison sentence, since there is only one and not ten other accusers, should I divide JerBer's sentencing by 10?

 

[marshall23]

I actually know someone that went through a living hell from something along the lines of what you feared. He was an elementary school teacher, male, single, and in his 40s (or early 50s). Out of the blue, he was arrested and charged based on the claims of a young boy who said this individual had sexually assaulted him in a mall bathroom. Only 2 people were in the bathroom -- the kid and the teacher, so it made it pretty difficult to defend against the charges. The teacher was placed on leave without pay by the school district, and was barely able to pay his bills as he had trouble getting any work due to the charges.

It took a very long time for the process to work through, but after 1.5 - 2 years, a judge dropped all charges due to significant inconsistencies in the various statements and court testimony by the boy.

The teacher ended up getting his back pay, and his former teaching position, and has since gotten married. All that said, I doubt any person would want to go through what this person lived through.

I had two colleagues accused during my nearly 4 decades in public ed. Both were reputable guys with solid families. Both were eventually exonerated. However, what they went thru during suspension and investigation had to shorten their lives. Working with young people is a mine field. When I started in the early 70's it was considered a coaches duty to give athletes a ride who were unable to get home. By the time I retired as an AD in 2009, I would not allow my coaches to speak to a student/athlete without another student or coach present.

 

[Rollin Stone]

Come on now, he wasn't advised not to take the stand because his case was going well, it was because he was getting slaughtered and had no defense. His lawyer didn't want Jerry to pull another Costas interview out of his ass.

And yeah, I would take the stand if I was accused of something that I didn't do. I would make sure to let my lawyer know my intentions before the trial even began.

He did plan on taking the stand Amendola said it during his opening statements. Then when you have the mcquery debacle of testimony, investigators lying on the stand, a tape with investigators manipulating testimony, 2 kids say that they were over at JS's house every weekend for 6 months at the same time but never saw each other, then yeah I can see why Amendola may have thought that he created enough reasonable doubt. So he very well could have been and I believe he has stated that he was advised not to take the stand.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I don't think you are taking into account the individuals who accused Jerry.During my teaching career, I worked several summers teaching court placed adolescents. They were ruthless and dangerous.Jerry's accusers were young adults who, by all accounts came from extremely disadvantaged back rounds. If in fact JS abused them, he may have only been one of the adults that did. These young men were probably not going to be doctors, lawyers and indian chiefs. I'll bet many have extensive criminal records. We know LE repeatedly enticed them to embellish their stories (which changed over time).
Taking a gift of millions when you can't hold a minimum wage job, never had a nickle, has got to be tempting.
As I've said before, I think JS put himself in the cross hairs. His propensity to shower with these kids and bear hug etc. is not easy to explain away. I just want to see a trial where he has good representation and the bs from the prosecution is eliminated. I think he still gets convicted on some counts.....but I am of the mind the oral, anal stuff never happened.

I'm taking their backgrounds into account. Which one testified was doing it in a prison jump suit?

 

[step.eng69]

I actually know someone that went through a living hell from something along the lines of what you feared. He was an elementary school teacher, male, single, and in his 40s (or early 50s). Out of the blue, he was arrested and charged based on the claims of a young boy who said this individual had sexually assaulted him in a mall bathroom. Only 2 people were in the bathroom -- the kid and the teacher, so it made it pretty difficult to defend against the charges. The teacher was placed on leave without pay by the school district, and was barely able to pay his bills as he had trouble getting any work due to the charges.

It took a very long time for the process to work through, but after 1.5 - 2 years, a judge dropped all charges due to significant inconsistencies in the various statements and court testimony by the boy.

The teacher ended up getting his back pay, and his former teaching position, and has since gotten married. All that said, I doubt any person would want to go through what this person lived through.

Thank you Tom for confirming my fears. At 67 years old, I don't need any more miss directed issues dropped on my life. Hell, I forgot about possibly loosing a job.

 

[getmyjive11]

I don't have the money to engage a prominent attorney so I'll have to make do with a county defense lawyer. To anticipate my prison sentence, since there is only one and not ten other accusers, should I divide JerBer's sentencing by 10?

With only one accuser, there is a good chance that the charges would be dropped (see Tom's story). If not, there is an even better chance that the kid's story will change and that you can easily defend yourself even with crappy representation. It's not like Jerry where he had numerous victims and MM (along with MM's father, the Dr and Joe's testimonies) going against him.

 

[getmyjive11]

He did plan on taking the stand Amendola said it during his opening statements. Then when you have the mcquery debacle of testimony, investigators lying on the stand, a tape with investigators manipulating testimony, 2 kids say that they were over at JS's house every weekend for 6 months at the same time but never saw each other, then yeah I can see why Amendola may have thought that he created enough reasonable doubt. So he very well could have been and I believe he has stated that he was advised not to take the stand.

Sorry, that's just not possible. The case was going terribly for Sandusky at every turn. Everyone saw it.

 

[NitFan1974]

Good Lord, this isn't even about Joe Paterno, it's about Sandusky's guilt.

Why comment then? You've already convicted him, regardless of facts.

 

[Talpsu]

So you think everyone out there would take millions just to send someone to jail? Someone they admired? I don't doubt there are people out there that could and would do that, but I didn't realize how many there were and how they all just happened to know Jerry. What do you think the odds were of that?

Serious question. Do you believe Matt Sandusky?

 

[getmyjive11]

Why comment then? You've already convicted him, regardless of facts.

Convicted Sandusky? The legal system did and I'm quite comfortable with calling him a pedophile considering the overwhelming testimony against him.

 

[Rollin Stone]

With only one accuser, there is a good chance that the charges would be dropped (see Tom's story). If not, there is an even better chance that the kid's story will change and that you can easily defend yourself even with crappy representation. It's not like Jerry where he had numerous victims and MM (along with MM's father, the Dr and Joe's testimonies) going against him.

So in this case you had numerous accusers whose stories did change, (se AF with multiple stories in the GJ). You had an OAG that realized that no accuser had a great accusation so they went on a fishing expedition to get more accusers.

Going through JS's book and contact numerous kids. They had AF's mother contacting other parents, they had Ganim contact families urging them to come forward and make claims. It was a trial of throw a ton of crap up against the wall and see what sticks.

If these accusations were tried separately, with a defense attorney that had enough time to vet the accusations and research the accusers, I think that there would have been much different outcome.

 

[step.eng69]

With only one accuser, there is a good chance that the charges would be dropped (see Tom's story). If not, there is an even better chance that the kid's story will change and that you can easily defend yourself even with crappy representation. It's not like Jerry where he had numerous victims and MM (along with MM's father, the Dr and Joe's testimonies) going against him.

Don't you understand the hardship, the money and other implications that will alter your life. Big deal, one lawyer trumps another in the court. Now that my name and photo have been posted in the media, how many people will give me the benefit of doubt? Will I be able to go and watch my grandkids sports games in peace, are will it be similar to what happens on occasion now when I wear my PSU Alumni hats.

 

[NitFan1974]

Convicted Sandusky? The legal system did and I'm quite comfortable with calling him a pedophile considering the overwhelming testimony against him.

A lot of people have been convicted in courts over stuff they didn't do. Ever hear of the Innocence Project?

 

[Rollin Stone]

Sorry, that's just not possible. The case was going terribly for Sandusky at every turn. Everyone saw it.

Were you in the courtroom? Did you read the entire transcript?

I agree with you that it may not have looked good, but you don't think it's possible that Amendola told him don't take the stand. From a legal stand point Amendola could have thought that he created doubt and told Jerry if you take the stand the OAG has flipped Matt and they will put him on the stand as a rebuttal witness.

You don't think that's possible?

 

[getmyjive11]

So in this case you had numerous accusers whose stories did change, (se AF with multiple stories in the GJ). You had an OAG that realized that no accuser had a great accusation so they went on a fishing expedition to get more accusers.

Going through JS's book and contact numerous kids. They had AF's mother contacting other parents, they had Ganim contact families urging them to come forward and make claims. It was a trial of throw a ton of crap up against the wall and see what sticks.

If these accusations were tried separately, with a defense attorney that had enough time to vet the accusations and research the accusers, I think that there would have been much different outcome.

They had 5 years now, right? There have been people like John Ziegler going hard after the victims. How many have been fully disproven? Sandusky is asking for a new trial... how many of the victims can he disprove? If it's not all ten, then what the hell are we doing? So he may only be a really, really bad serial child molester instead of the worst one ever? Great. Can't wait for that....

 

[getmyjive11]

A lot of people have been convicted in courts over stuff they didn't do. Ever hear of the Innocence Project?

How many of them were convicted on 45 of 52 counts?

 

[step.eng69]

They had 5 years now, right? There have been people like John Ziegler going hard after the victims. How many have been fully disproven? Sandusky is asking for a new trial... how many of the victims can he disprove? If it's not all ten, then what the hell are we doing? So he may only be a really, really bad serial child molester instead of the worst one ever? Great. Can't wait for that....

Talk to you tomorrow...Step

 

[getmyjive11]

Were you in the courtroom? Did you read the entire transcript?

I agree with you that it may not have looked good, but you don't think it's possible that Amendola told him don't take the stand. From a legal stand point Amendola could have thought that he created doubt and told Jerry if you take the stand the OAG has flipped Matt and they will put him on the stand as a rebuttal witness.

You don't think that's possible?

Whether he didn't put him on the stand because of Matt or because he was worried about Sandusky looking even worse is irrelevant. Sandusky still makes that decision and if I were him and were being accused of multiple crimes that I did not commit, there is no way in hell that I am not taking the stand.

His choice, he chose not to do it. Too bad.

 

[Talpsu]

They had 5 years now, right? There have been people like John Ziegler going hard after the victims. How many have been fully disproven? Sandusky is asking for a new trial... how many of the victims can he disprove? If it's not all ten, then what the hell are we doing? So he may only be a really, really bad serial child molester instead of the worst one ever? Great. Can't wait for that....

Actually JZ has pretty much shot huge holes in everyone of the accusers at trial. Also the number isn't 10. Not sure where you are getting that from Im assuming what was referenced at trial as "victims 1-10"

 

[Rollin Stone]

They had 5 years now, right? There have been people like John Ziegler going hard after the victims. How many have been fully disproven? Sandusky is asking for a new trial... how many of the victims can he disprove? If it's not all ten, then what the hell are we doing? So he may only be a really, really bad serial child molester instead of the worst one ever? Great. Can't wait for that....

Well that's what the PCRA is all about, getting a chance to disprove them in a court of law. You can make the case the Ziegler has disproven most of them but that would be a matter of opinion, which we don't have to debate.

Hey I appreciate the debate and respect your point of view. I also understand that the easier approach is to say he's 100% guilty and leave it go at that. All I am arguing is that the trial wasn't fair at best and corrupt at the worst.

No hard feelings agree to disagree.