Article on repressed memory therapy

[LaJolla Lion]

With only one accuser, there is a good chance that the charges would be dropped (see Tom's story). If not, there is an even better chance that the kid's story will change and that you can easily defend yourself even with crappy representation. It's not like Jerry where he had numerous victims and MM (along with MM's father, the Dr and Joe's testimonies) going against him.

People here will take the exceptions to the rule and use them as the shining light of how Jerry was victimized. Jerry groomed kids over time and had relationships with the kids as is the case most of the time in molestation cases. Walking in to take a piss and leaving a restroom takes 2-3 minutes and I have no fear of doing it, none. I also don't let my 7 year old son walk into any public restroom alone as most good parents don't.

Even in Tom's case which is the exception to the rule when you think of how many MILLIONS of public bathrooms there are in this country. I wonder how many milllions of people are taking pisses right now in a public restroom? It's almost like you would have to hit the lottery of having some strange kid walk in, not know you, and then say you molested him in 2-3 minutes. Even in Tom's case it was a teacher and a known student (maybe not?), but that would at least hint that the accuser was known.

It would be one thing if someday a few of his victims come out and say they were forced into lying and Jerry didn't touch them. Nothing like that has occurred yet, but people get so upset here if you aren't worried about Jerry and his poor legal woes. I hope PSU beats Pitt this weekend and and Temple next weekend. That is much more of a concern to me than Jerry Sandusky right now.

 

[getmyjive11]

Actually JZ has pretty much shot huge holes in everyone of the accusers at trial. Also the number isn't 10. Not sure where you are getting that from Im assuming what was referenced at trial as "victims 1-10"

Zig hasn't done anything noteworthy. He points to Aaron Fischer flaunting money and thinks that it proves JS didn't molest him. Terrible.

 

[getmyjive11]

Well that's what the PCRA is all about, getting a chance to disprove them in a court of law. You can make the case the Ziegler has disproven most of them but that would be a matter of opinion, which we don't have to debate.

Hey I appreciate the debate and respect your point of view. I also understand that the easier approach is to say he's 100% guilty and leave it go at that. All I am arguing is that the trial wasn't fair at best and corrupt at the worst.

No hard feelings agree to disagree.

I just wanted to add that if it is a matter of opinion whether JZ disproved a victim or not, then he has not.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Serious question. Do you believe Matt Sandusky?

Matt Sandusky DID NOT testify against Jerry. This is about the trial where Jerry was convicted, not what Matt did. Is it possible Matt lied and rode the money train....sure. The thing is he didn't get Jerry convicted in the courtroom.

 

[bdgan]

Everyone is a liar but Jerry. Sure.

So you think Schiano, LJ, Bradley, and others knew and did nothing? After all, why would the alleged victims lie?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

So you think Schiano, LJ, Bradley, and others knew and did nothing? After all, why would the alleged victims lie?

I love the "so you think" posts. How about this, pull out where I even discussed those 3 in this thread and start from there.

 

[francofan]

Matt Sandusky DID NOT testify against Jerry. This is about the trial where Jerry was convicted, not what Matt did. Is it possibly Matt lied and rode the money train....sure. The thing is he didn't get Jerry convicted in the courtroom.

You are correct that Matt Sandusky did not testify against Jerry, but I believe that he played a significant part in getting Jerry convicted. After he flipped, he caused major problems for Joe Amendola and the defense (as if they didn't have enough problems in the first place). Amendola was originally planning to have Jerry testify on his own behalf, but adadoned that strategy for fear that Matt Sandusky would be called as a rebuttal witness.

 

[Rollin Stone]

I just wanted to add that if it is a matter of opinion whether JZ disproved a victim or not, then he has not.

Well I believe that he has and I think it's fair to say that I'm not alone in that belief. So that's why I said that it is a matter of opinion. Not discounting yours that you hold strongly.

If you haven't seen some of the videos done by Ziegler. Regarding some of the accusers I urge you to check them out.

That is not only what I base my beliefs on though.

 

[Cpeplion]

All of you people defending Sandusky ask yourself this question......Would you let him hang out with your kids unsupervised?

If you answered yes...congratulations...you're an idiot

The man is guilty and you look like fools defending him and do the same to the entire PSU fan base.

 

[bdgan]

I love the "so you think" posts. How about this, pull out where I even discussed those 3 in this thread and start from there.

I'm just challenging the notion that something has to be true if several people say it's true.

 

[CDW3333]

They burned PSU for money not Jerry. And the OAG, Shubin and others let them know that there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

The assumption seems to be that all a claimant had to do was make a claim that he was abused and Penn State would pay off like a slot machine.

So, why weren't there more people paid? I think the total was 32. There had to have been hundreds of boys with birth dates between 1985 and 1995 (best for SOL purposes) associated with TSM at some point.

I remember when I was defending asbestos cases, it seemed that every employee in a plant would make asbestos injury claims even if they were nowhere near the stuff.

Why only 32 claims paid?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I'm just challenging the notion that something has to be true if several people say it's true.

9 people that testified. 9 that he had access to. Not one did he discount, not a single one. These were not toddlers testifying, but they were doing this as adults. Is it possible they all lied, sure if you want to play that card. It is humanly possible they all lied. I'm not sure what the percentage breakdown is, but I'm thinking it is pretty low.

It would be nice if one got discounted to run with this theory of Jerry being the victim here. People act as if I'm unreasonable for thinking the man molested kids. Ok, then.

 

[MichaelJackSchmidt]

In the past five years, several times I have been in the restroom alone when a child comes in for a wiz. I start thinking of the sentence above in bold print & get the heck out of there promptly. I'll return when the kid is done and out.

I trust you zip back up before leaving the restroom, or you may indeed expose yourself to further problems...

 

[Rollin Stone]

The assumption seems to be that all a claimant had to do was make a claim that he was abused and Penn State would pay off like a slot machine.

So, why weren't there more people paid? I think the total was 32. There had to have been hundreds of boys with birth dates between 1985 and 1995 (best for SOL purposes) associated with TSM at some point.

I remember when I was defending asbestos cases, it seemed that every employee in a plant would make asbestos injury claims even if they were nowhere near the stuff.

Why only 32 claims paid?

How many claims were denied? Hasn't it been discussed here on this board that the BOT basically did pay out anyone that made a claim? Or just about did?

And that people here claimed that the BOT didn't vett the people that came forward making accusations? I'm pretty sure that that was discussed here.

Maybe there are only 32 people that don't have high enough morals that are ok with lying to get money from a University that basically advertised for people to come forward and get paid.

Why didn't you come forward to make a claim? Most likely because you have the morals that say it's not right for you to do so.

 

[bdgan]

9 people that testified. 9 that he had access to. Not one did he discount, not a single one. These were not toddlers testifying, but they were doing this as adults. Is it possible they all lied, sure if you want to play that card. It is humanly possible they all lied. I'm not sure what the percentage breakdown is, but I'm thinking it is pretty low.

It would be nice if one got discounted to run with this theory of Jerry being the victim here. People act as if I'm unreasonable for thinking the man molested kids. Ok, then.

Wrong. I think most posters on this board think JS is guilty of molesting children. I've gone on record saying that the fact that he continued to shower with kids after 1998 tells me that he had a problem.

I think what most people are saying is that PSU made payments on some pretty questionable claims. A lot of us think that people were motivated by the AG and $$$ to falsify or at least embellish their claims. Some of us question the repressed memory victims that flipped on JS once lawyers waved $$$ at them.

Do you remember reading that Prince died without a will? Did you later read that more than 700 friends and relatives came out of the woodwork to stake their claims?

 

[pandaczar12]

All of you people defending Sandusky ask yourself this question......Would you let him hang out with your kids unsupervised?

If you answered yes...congratulations...you're an idiot

The man is guilty and you look like fools defending him and do the same to the entire PSU fan base.

I'm not even defending him, but this is such a stupid question. Do you often let your kids hang out with strangers unsupervised?

 

[WDLion]

So you think everyone out there would take millions just to send someone to jail? Someone they admired? I don't doubt there are people out there that could and would do that, but I didn't realize how many there were and how they all just happened to know Jerry. What do you think the odds were of that?

How many kids did Jerry have interactions with that didn't blame him for molesting them? During the time of the second miles existence that number could be in the hundreds.

 

[francofan]

How many kids did Jerry have interactions with that didn't blame him for molesting them? During the time of the second miles existence that number could be in the hundreds.

I believe the number is in the thousands. Sandusky had a reputation for throwing kids into the pool.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

How many kids did Jerry have interactions with that didn't blame him for molesting them? During the time of the second miles existence that number could be in the hundreds.

Does that work for guys who commit murder too?

 

[WDLion]

Does that work for guys who commit murder too?

It works for any crime.
You seem to be saying that every kid Jerry had a personal relationship with accused him of molestation.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Wrong. I think most posters on this board think JS is guilty of molesting children. I've gone on record saying that the fact that he continued to shower with kids after 1998 tells me that he had a problem.

I think what most people are saying is that PSU made payments on some pretty questionable claims. A lot of us think that people were motivated by the AG and $$$ to falsify or at least embellish their claims. Some of us question the repressed memory victims that flipped on JS once lawyers waved $$$ at them.

Do you remember reading that Prince died without a will? Did you later read that more than 700 friends and relatives came out of the woodwork to stake their claims?

This is where some people have a hard time separating two DIFFERENT issues or they like to merge them into one. I am not talking about money being paid out. I'm simply saying JS is guilty of molesting children. The schools IDIOTIC decisions were a disgrace and I have said so many times, but they did not get the man convicted. I'm not applauding the school wasting money. I'm not saying they didn't pay one or two people who didn't deserve it as it seems like they may have. I'm not talking about Prince, LJ, Joe, the Beatles, MJ, Lavar Arrington or the Yeti. I'm saying JS is a convicted child molester for good reason and others in this thread somehow take exception to that being said here.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

It works for any crime.
You seem to be saying that every kid Jerry had a personal relationship with accused him of molestation.

I never once said such a thing nor did I ever imply it in any way shape or form. I said every person that TESTIFIED against Jerry in court had a relationship with him which they did. That isn't news to anyone. In fact it's pretty much standard operating procedure for predators like Jerry. If you need to make things up or invent opinions, you kind of lose credibility. Just an FYI.

 

[getmyjive11]

How many kids did Jerry have interactions with that didn't blame him for molesting them? During the time of the second miles existence that number could be in the hundreds.

You think he had time to groom hundreds of kids?

Why was it *only* 32? Maybe because his M.O. was not to molest kids without grooming them. And just like other mentally sick people who commit these kind of crimes, it sure seemed like Sandusky thought he was helping the kids. I have no doubt that in his demented mind, he thought that he was doing good and just showing acts of "love".

That sick bastard.

 

[bdgan]

This is where some people have a hard time separating two DIFFERENT issues or they like to merge them into one. I am not talking about money being paid out. I'm simply saying JS is guilty of molesting children. The schools IDIOTIC decisions were a disgrace and I have said so many times, but they did not get the man convicted. I'm not applauding the school wasting money. I'm not saying they didn't pay one or two people who didn't deserve it as it seems like they may have. I'm not talking about Prince, LJ, Joe, the Beatles, MJ, Lavar Arrington or the Yeti. I'm saying JS is a convicted child molester for good reason and others in this thread somehow take exception to that being said here.

Then we're in agreement except that I don't think it's just one or two. The amounts paid seem quite high too. Wasn't there some e-mail evidence suggesting that the BOT was eager to make payments in order to put this to bed as long as those payments were covered by insurance (or so they thought)?

 

[WDLion]

I never once said such a thing nor did I ever imply it in any way shape or form. I said every person that TESTIFIED against Jerry in court had a relationship with him which they did. That isn't news to anyone. In fact it's pretty much standard operating procedure for predators like Jerry. If you need to make things up or invent opinions, you kind of lose credibility. Just an FYI.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that Jerry is innocent.
All I'm saying is eight kids testifying against him a small percentage of the kids he had relationships with.

 

[getmyjive11]

I'm not saying you're wrong or that Jerry is innocent.
All I'm saying is eight kids testifying against him a small percentage of the kids he had relationships with.

As LJL said, there is nothing uncommon about that. Thieves don't steal from everyone they meet, murders don't kill everyone they know and child molesters don't molest every child they come across. In fact, they all victimize only a very small percentage of potential victims.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I'm not saying you're wrong or that Jerry is innocent.
All I'm saying is eight kids testifying against him a small percentage of the kids he had relationships with.

8 is a pretty big number to me. I get people upset over the money being given away like it was no big deal, but I don't think that means Jerry is a victim. Is that clear enough? I'm stepping out of this thread now....it's time for Pitt. F Jerry. Beat Pitt.

 

[CDW3333]

You think he had time to groom hundreds of kids?

Why was it *only* 32? Maybe because his M.O. was not to molest kids without grooming them. And just like other mentally sick people who commit these kind of crimes, it sure seemed like Sandusky thought he was helping the kids. I have no doubt that in his demented mind, he thought that he was doing good and just showing acts of "love".

That sick bastard.

According to this: Pedophiles have a strong, almost irresistible, desire to have sex with children. The average pedophile molests 260 victims during their lifetime. Over 90% of convicted pedophiles are arrested again for the same offense after their release from prison.

http://yellodyno.com/Statistics/statistics_child_molester.html

Maybe a lot of claimants got turned down. Maybe a lot didn't want to come forward because they would be harassed by jerks like Ziegler. Maybe some have committed suicide (high suicide rate among victims of sexual child abuse). Maybe some have died from drug OD (high rate of drug use among victims of CSA).

 

[Obliviax]

According to this: Pedophiles have a strong, almost irresistible, desire to have sex with children. The average pedophile molests 260 victims during their lifetime. Over 90% of convicted pedophiles are arrested again for the same offense after their release from prison.

http://yellodyno.com/Statistics/statistics_child_molester.html

Maybe a lot of claimants got turned down. Maybe a lot didn't want to come forward because they would be harassed by jerks like Ziegler. Maybe some have committed suicide (high suicide rate among victims of sexual child abuse). Maybe some have died from drug OD (high rate of drug use among victims of CSA).

You also have to add in that these kids, for the most part, were "at risk" and that is why they were in the Second Mile program. So drugs, suicide, failure to report, etc. are all affected.

 

[NitFan1974]

FWIW, read this...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/fuster/etc/synopsis.html

Sound familiar?

It's freaky how these cases have a similar arc.

It happens all the time!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria

 

[getmyjive11]

According to this: Pedophiles have a strong, almost irresistible, desire to have sex with children. The average pedophile molests 260 victims during their lifetime. Over 90% of convicted pedophiles are arrested again for the same offense after their release from prison.

http://yellodyno.com/Statistics/statistics_child_molester.html

Maybe a lot of claimants got turned down. Maybe a lot didn't want to come forward because they would be harassed by jerks like Ziegler. Maybe some have committed suicide (high suicide rate among victims of sexual child abuse). Maybe some have died from drug OD (high rate of drug use among victims of CSA).

I personally do not believe that 260 number. I could be wrong I guess, but I'm not even sure how they would get to that number. Further down on that website it states that the average abuser molests 117 children. That is one hell of a difference.

It seemed like Jerry had long term "relationships" with a lot of his victims. I'm not sure you could molest a couple hundred kids and maintain those relationships.

 

[MtNittany]

SMH @ Amendola. SMH @ Jurors. SMH @ the same few posters here.

 

[getmyjive11]

SMH @ Amendola. SMH @ Jurors. SMH @ the same few posters here.

If Jerry would get another trial, my fear is that one of you deniers would slip into the jury.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Even in Tom's case it was a teacher and a known student (maybe not?), but that would at least hint that the accuser was known.

Since you offered some speculation in a real case, allow me to set things straight.

The teacher lived and taught in one state, near the border with another state. The incident took place at a mall, about 40 minutes from where the teacher lived and taught, in the "other" state. The boy did not know the teacher, and the teacher did not know the boy. The boy lived and went to school in the "other" state.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Since you offered some speculation in a real case, allow me to set things straight.

The teacher lived and taught in one state, near the border with another state. The incident took place at a mall, about 40 minutes from where the teacher lived and taught, in the "other" state. The boy did not know the teacher, and the teacher did not know the boy. The boy lived and went to school in the "other" state.

Thanks for the clarification as it was clear I was not sure. So basically this another exception to the rule and a case that has no real similarities to Jerry's at all. I just wonder how many cases like this happen every hour with 8 victims testifying as adults. I'll speculate some more and say this was not an adult with repressed memories either.

I'll still take my chances in a public restrooms as much as I try to avoid them to begin with.

 

[MoonOverMyHammy]

Over 90% of convicted pedophiles are arrested again for the same offense after their release from prison.

This stat was pretty much disproven by a recent Department of Justice study. Sex offenders actually have low recidivism rates compared to most other types of criminals.

 

[indynittany]

So you think everyone out there would take millions just to send someone to jail? Someone they admired? I don't doubt there are people out there that could and would do that, but I didn't realize how many there were and how they all just happened to know Jerry. What do you think the odds were of that?

No, but they'd take money if a) they knew Jerry's goose was cooked no matter what, and b) they were told Jerry sexually abused other kids and that the affection he showed them was not genuine, but part of the grooming process. IOW, if they were told they were victims by Shubin, Fina, etc...

 

[Talpsu]

Matt Sandusky DID NOT testify against Jerry. This is about the trial where Jerry was convicted, not what Matt did. Is it possible Matt lied and rode the money train....sure. The thing is he didn't get Jerry convicted in the courtroom.

I asked the question about Matt with regards to you comment about JS being a father figure and how they could just turn on him. Also along the Matt line, JS was absolutely going to testify at trial until near the very last day when the DA got Matt to flip and said if he would be putting Matt on the stand if JS was planning on testifying. So actually it does kind of relate to his trial. All I'm starting to say people will turn on people for money. He's had the charity since 76 I believe. He was tried on 10 victims where two didn't even exist. Out the the 8 remaining 4 or 5 were found through a crack team investigation by Ganim, 1 or 2 had been recorded stating nothing happened and then the cops having a conversation with their lawyers then coaching them to say what happened and then there is the ole 98 incident that had already been looked into by several agencies and deemed boundary issues. So out of the 1000s of kids that went through TSM these were the "10" best to convict him? If he molested just one then he should rot in jail but there definitely are questions I have and I'm not 100% without a doubt convinced he is guilty of what he was charged with.

 

[canuckhal]

All of you people defending Sandusky ask yourself this question......Would you let him hang out with your kids unsupervised?

If you answered yes...congratulations...you're an idiot

The man is guilty and you look like fools defending him and do the same to the entire PSU fan base.

Matt Sandusky went to court to give Jerry access to his own kids. Guess that makes him an idiot and doesn't raise any questions.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

No, but they'd take money if a) they knew Jerry's goose was cooked no matter what, and b) they were told Jerry sexually abused other kids and that the affection he showed them was not genuine, but part of the grooming process. IOW, if they were told they were victims by Shubin, Fina, etc...

So again these victims testified as ADULTS (not toddlers like some try to use as an example of "similar cases") made it up and just took the money is what you are saying. They were all forced to say this stuff by the prosecution and lawyers with the promise of a payday. They all fabricated everything and Jerry who couldn't stop showering with young boys and touching them is just misunderstood to everyone outside of a tiny subset(thankfully) of PSU fans. The lawyers forced these people to testify under oath against a man that tried to help many of them as children. They all agreed to it and now are sworn to secrecy. Best scam and cover up in history...poor Jerry.