As much as I'd like Hall...

[Sullivan]

Given our strength in the upper weights, Hall is more of a luxury than a need. It's like having 2 or 3 good quarterbacks on your roster, when only 1 can play.

Realistically, we have 3 spots to fill down low. If we can fill these spots with some of the available talent, we should be pretty darn good. We need some combination of the following:

Lee
Suriano
Red
Pletcher
Micic
Fix

I'd be putting the full court press on these talented guys, and let the other top tier teams battle for Hall.

 

[Onceafish]

Given our strength in the upper weights, Hall is more of a luxury than a need. It's like having 2 or 3 good quarterbacks on your roster, when only 1 can play.

Realistically, we have 3 spots to fill down low. If we can fill these spots with some of the available talent, we should be pretty darn good. We need some combination of the following:

Lee
Suriano
Red
Pletcher
Micic
Fix

I'd be putting the full court press on these talented guys, and let the other top tier teams battle for Hall.

I'd like to see us pursue the lightweights and hope that the very talented Mr Hall ends up at a non-contending Midwestern school like Bucknell or Minnesota.

 

[SRATH]

The Micic situation has to change some things.....unless it has been in the works for some time. Really quiet recruiting for PSU means really good things....imho. This is Cael's style.....very low key. If Micic is willing to sit, he fits perfectly for PSU. Then is only a matter of landing one of Suriano, Red or Pletcher....then Lee.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

The Micic situation has to change some things.....unless it has been in the works for some time. Really quiet recruiting for PSU means really good things....imho. This is Cael's style.....very low key. If Micic is willing to sit, he fits perfectly for PSU. Then is only a matter of landing one of Suriano, Red or Pletcher....then Lee.

Agreed. Quiet has been good for us, but it's still maddeningly frustrating. Especially when you compare it to Coach Franklin adding a 4 star every week to Bat Signals and Twitter frenzies.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Given our strength in the upper weights, Hall is more of a luxury than a need. It's like having 2 or 3 good quarterbacks on your roster, when only 1 can play.

Realistically, we have 3 spots to fill down low. If we can fill these spots with some of the available talent, we should be pretty darn good. We need some combination of the following:

Lee
Suriano
Red
Pletcher
Micic
Fix

I'd be putting the full court press on these talented guys, and let the other top tier teams battle for Hall.

What are your thoughts on Philippi as a 41? Any other PIAA observers on the board have thoughts on him?

As for your argument, I kind of agree. There's some fanbases who, in their thirst for big recruiting splashes, are going all Mack Brown - get top guys regardless of need. There are just not enough scholarships and spots to go "best wrestler available".

 

[dicemen99]

What are your thoughts on Philippi as a 41? Any other PIAA observers on the board have thoughts on him?

As for your argument, I kind of agree. There's some fanbases who, in their thirst for big recruiting splashes, are going all Mack Brown - get top guys regardless of need. There are just not enough scholarships and spots to go "best wrestler available".

He is highly regarded as a recruit. He is also like watching paint dry. Really good on the mat, so I would bet his transition is easy. Highly doubt he is a fan favorite though because of his style.

 

[El-Jefe]

What are your thoughts on Philippi as a 41? Any other PIAA observers on the board have thoughts on him?

As for your argument, I kind of agree. There's some fanbases who, in their thirst for big recruiting splashes, are going all Mack Brown - get top guys regardless of need. There are just not enough scholarships and spots to go "best wrestler available".

What Dice said. Phillippi is very talented and capable of high-scoring matches but, style-wise, a great fit for Cornell. Why win 12-1 if you can win 2-1?

Regarding Hall: at nationals David Taylor was, between the finals and bonus pts, by himself equivalent to 3 low-to-mid AAs -- for each of 4 years. If the coaches think Hall is at that level, then NCAA Tournament Math says you go after him, hard. A few years ago PSU had a very capable 174/184 and pressing needs elsewhere in the lineup. Good thing we got Ed Ruth anyway. Again, depends on the coaches' evaluation.

Regarding the QB comparison: a lot of teams went after Peyton Manning when the Colts cut him. Not all of them were starting Tebow.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

What Dice said. Phillippi is very talented and capable of high-scoring matches but, style-wise, a great fit for Cornell. Why win 12-1 if you can win 2-1?

Regarding Hall: at nationals David Taylor was, between the finals and bonus pts, by himself equivalent to 3 low-to-mid AAs -- for each of 4 years. If the coaches think Hall is at that level, then NCAA Tournament Math says you go after him, hard. A few years ago PSU had a very capable 174/184 and pressing needs elsewhere in the lineup. Good thing we got Ed Ruth anyway. Again, depends on the coaches' evaluation.

Regarding the QB comparison: a lot of teams went after Peyton Manning when the Colts cut him. Not all of them were starting Tebow.

Those are good points. Okay, it's settled! We go after Hall!

 

[CropDuster507]

Hall is at that level. He is easily the best wrestler to watch in MN. Kid will get the fall, if needed, but put a show one while doing it.

 

[Sullivan]

What Dice said. Phillippi is very talented and capable of high-scoring matches but, style-wise, a great fit for Cornell. Why win 12-1 if you can win 2-1?

Regarding Hall: at nationals David Taylor was, between the finals and bonus pts, by himself equivalent to 3 low-to-mid AAs -- for each of 4 years. If the coaches think Hall is at that level, then NCAA Tournament Math says you go after him, hard. A few years ago PSU had a very capable 174/184 and pressing needs elsewhere in the lineup. Good thing we got Ed Ruth anyway. Again, depends on the coaches' evaluation.

Regarding the QB comparison: a lot of teams went after Peyton Manning when the Colts cut him. Not all of them were starting Tebow.

A better analogy would be...had Dake been in Penn State's lineup along with Taylor and Ruth, how many more points would Penn State have scored?

Although we may have been better, we probably wouldn't have scored many more team points, than adding someone such as Nico at 125 pounds.

 

[dicemen99]

Hall is at that level. He is easily the best wrestler to watch in MN. Kid will get the fall, if needed, but put a show one while doing it.

As much as I like Hall (to stay consistent with the OP), people are jumping the gun with this. It's pretty hard to put him at DT's level in college, in folkstyle, in ability to bonus right now. He may be able to do it, but people seem to think it's a sure thing. If you look at history, it's not.

 

[CropDuster507]

As much as I like Hall (to stay consistent with the OP), people are jumping the gun with this. It's pretty hard to put him at DT's level in college, in folkstyle, in ability to bonus right now. He may be able to do it, but people seem to think it's a sure thing. If you look at history, it's not.

I get that, dice. But this kid is beating grown-@$$ (can we curse on this board?) men, right now. In my opinion, his mat wrestling is just as good, if not better, than his neutral offense. He can ride. He can escape, quick. I never got to watch DT in HS, but Hall is a phenom. This ain't Chance Marstellar-esque hype, either. I guess we'll see at JR Worlds.

I make sure to wear my PSU gear when I know Mark is at a tournament I'm attending. All advertisement is good advertisement.

 

[dicemen99]

There is another guy about a year older than him that did the same things in HS. He's on the SR World Team right now at age 19. I don't remember anyone conceding the next 4 NCs with bonus to him.

I'm sure Mark Hall is going to be great, but just be cautionary when projecting him to score 25 points every year at nationals. He is on a great run right now and everyone thinks he will make their favorite team the team title favorites for the next few years. He could - but he also could not.

 

[El-Jefe]

A better analogy would be...had Dake been in Penn State's lineup along with Taylor and Ruth, how many more points would Penn State have scored?

Although we may have been better, we probably wouldn't have scored many more team points, than adding someone such as Nico at 125 pounds.

Prospect Dake was not quite at the level of Prospect Taylor or Prospect Ruth. College Wrestler Dake, of course. But not Prospect Dake. Prospect Hall is.

Again, this all comes down to the coaches' assessment.

And Nico came 2 years later. Getting Ruth did not preclude getting Nico, and hopefully money committed in the next few months (in whichever direction) won't be an issue when Teasdale and Sasso graduate.

 

[CropDuster507]

What kills me (and I can post this here, without catching a $&$&-storm)... Is why would Hall want to go to MN? I get that he's been here, for the most part, of the last 5-6 years. But why would he want to wrestle the JRob style? The guy preaches defense for pete's sake. Mark Hall is a control-type wrestler, but I want to watch him shoot takedowns in college. He needs to go elsewhere.

 

[Sullivan]

Getting Ruth did not preclude getting Nico, and hopefully money committed in the next few months (in whichever direction) won't be an issue when Teasdale and Sasso graduate.

Of course getting Ruth didn't preclude getting Nico...however, if you would have signed Dake (in addition to Ruth and Taylor), you probably wouldn't have had enough money for Nico, when he arrived. As you are aware, you only get 9.9 scholarships. If Dake was getting money, someone else would not be.

The point is that you cannot spend too much money in the upper weights. Otherwise, you won't have enough money to attract the top talent at the the lower weights.

 

[El-Jefe]

No, the point is that you must optimize scoring at nationals.

Dake would not have blocked Nico, Someone else would've gotten skipped in between. Probably Sherlock and Cowburn and Stinson, etc.

Cael found the money to bring in Jimmy Lawson from a 2-year layoff for football, when he already had an NCAA qualifier (Gingrich) at the same weight, same year. He wouldn't have found a way to get Nico in? Come on.

 

[BOSCO2]

I'd like to see us pursue the lightweights and hope that the very talented Mr Hall ends up at a non-contending Midwestern school like Bucknell or Minnesota.

Minnesota. Oh, the humanity!

 

[Gork2]

I still think Hall ends up at Nebraska so he can work out with Burroughs.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

That was my prediction although there has been a lot of talk of Minnesota of late.

 

[SRATH]

Agreed. Quiet has been good for us, but it's still maddeningly frustrating. Especially when you compare it to Coach Franklin adding a 4 star every week to Bat Signals and Twitter frenzies.

Franklin has to do what he does while Sanderson has to do what he does. Find a way to manage the money, get Micic, one of the three (Suriano, Red or Pletcher ) then seal the deal with Lee. We have already put our best foot forward, so then bring in the best training partners you can. Figure out who is going to want to be the man at 133 right out of the gate.....and maybe stay there. It is tough sledding at 133 because plenty of 125 kids are simply going to outgrow their weights to avoid SL. This is why you build a solid line-up everywhere.....so folks can't hide.

We can have an NCAA title-like team without any of those kids.....but why should we consider setting our sights on anything but total domination. Complete excellence in academics, in athletics and in the community. A co-worker of mine gets around PSU kids at clinics...some in school and some who have graduated. He raves about what wonderful young men these guys are, fantastic examples for young wrestlers both on the mat and off. And for parents....about keeping it fun and fresh and in perspective. It is all they hear from the staff.

Hang on for another wild ride. The best part is there are talented young wrestlers all over the place. The sport is growing and the overall talent level is improving everywhere. What an exciting time.

 

[crazylegs2]

SRATH- That is some great stuff right there! I like your perspective.

 

[24Hawkeye7]

Hall wants stardom, and wrestling to be huge. It's apparent, especially the way he is going to give his commitment this fall. He does not want to "make a name for himself" or "re-build a program" and make it successful. He knows (in his mind) that he is going to be the greatest collegiate wrestler of all time (at least thats what he said on takedown radio) He's staying in the mid west and with someone with that much pride (yet humble in it) and love for the sport, he is not going anywhere unless he is wrestling in front of 8,000 fans a night sometimes 15,000-17,000 (at least at home duals). Whats happening is what always happens before an NFL draft, everyone over thinks and makes up reasons where someone shouldn't go and they look past what's right there. Hall will go to either Iowa, Penn State or Ohio State (if you consider the last two the midwest)

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Given our strength in the upper weights, Hall is more of a luxury than a need. It's like having 2 or 3 good quarterbacks on your roster, when only 1 can play.

Things weren't much different last year (lots of talent on the roster at upper weights, looming need at 125 and 133, and Spencer Lee on the horizon). At that time, I may a few posts indicating that I did not think PSU would be a player for the Valencia brothers, as there wasn't a lot of need at their weights, and probably not a lot of money available for them. CS analyzed things a bit differently, and made a real effort to land the Valencia brothers.

Since then, the upper weights added more depth in Kellan Stout, the situation is even more pressing at 125 and 133, and Spencer Lee is still on the horizon. While I share your sentiments about where the greater needs are on PSU's roster, I won't make the mistake that I made last year. I think CS will always be in the hunt for elite talent, and Hall is certainly elite.