Barron gets grilled by PA Rep about new art museum

[BBrown]

Super.

Of course, the issue at hand - however - is not what a Painting may be worth, but:

Penn State spending $80+ million....
and strapping another $60+ million of debt onto the backs of its students....
in order to construct a new art museum to replace Palmer.

(Not to mention the actual Mission-Related and Mission-Critical projects that could actually make use of such funds - where they to be spent - to advance the missions of the University...… and, as a little side dish, the bald-faced lies spewing from the Bloviator - just as a dessert dish)


But, yeah

After seeing the art that was bequeathed its impressive.
What a I don't like is the price tag and what I don't believe is Barron in general.
I never was a fan of The Palmer Musuem. I love the idea and the concept I just hate
the way it was done. From the very start it looked like they had no idea where to put it so they just shoe horned into onto the visual arts building. I guess that thought that made sense, you know art and all.
And this is coming from someone with a BFA in Art from PSU.
I haven't been in The Palmer Museum in a few years but is there room in the Museum
to display them until they get the proper funding? I mean its not unusual for Museum's to rotate their works and or lend them out.
Also what are the major complaints about attaching it to the Arboretum? I've been to a lot of Museum's that do have "gardens" around them. Its not uncommon.

 

[MJG-90]

Barbara Palmer gifted her art collection to Penn State last year. I have no idea how it was valued but it a large collection and includes an original Georgia O’Keefe. O’Keefe paintings have fetched over $40M at auction.

https://news.psu.edu/story/587164/2.../palmer-museum-art-announces-landmark-bequest

What will security have to look like if the museum is housing pieces that valuable?

 

[BBrown]

What will security have to look like if the museum is housing pieces that valuable?

That is a very good question.

 

[NittPicker]

What will security have to look like if the museum is housing pieces that valuable?

Maybe they'll hire the company that works the gates at Beaver Stadium.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

After seeing the art that was bequeathed its impressive.
What a I don't like is the price tag and what I don't believe is Barron in general.
I never was a fan of The Palmer Musuem. I love the idea and the concept I just hate
the way it was done. From the very start it looked like they had no idea where to put it so they just shoe horned into onto the visual arts building. I guess that thought that made sense, you know art and all.
And this is coming from someone with a BFA in Art from PSU.
I haven't been in The Palmer Museum in a few years but is there room in the Museum
to display them until they get the proper funding? I mean its not unusual for Museum's to rotate their works and or lend them out.
Also what are the major complaints about attaching it to the Arboretum? I've been to a lot of Museum's that do have "gardens" around them. Its not uncommon.

You had me at bequeathed.

Word on the street is building stuff for PSU is shamefully profitable.

 

[Achowalogan]

Barbara Palmer gifted her art collection to Penn State last year. I have no idea how it was valued but it a large collection and includes an original Georgia O’Keefe. O’Keefe paintings have fetched over $40M at auction.

https://news.psu.edu/story/587164/2.../palmer-museum-art-announces-landmark-bequest

Sell the expensive painting to generate the $ to store the rest of the collection..

 

[BBrown]

Maybe they'll hire the company that works the gates at Beaver Stadium.

 

[BBrown]

You had me at bequeathed.

Word on the street is building stuff for PSU is shamefully profitable.

If its a Dambly project, dollars to doughnuts it is, it will be extremely profitable to he and his BOT Butts.

 

[MJG-90]

Sell the expensive painting to generate the $ to store the rest of the collection..

But the expensive painting is what will attract the half million visitors per year.

 

[hotmetal]

What can the legislature do to stop this?

 

[Art]

What can the legislature do to stop this?

Nothing, though carving $81mm out of PSU's appropriation might send Fats a message.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

After seeing the art that was bequeathed its impressive.
What a I don't like is the price tag and what I don't believe is Barron in general.
I never was a fan of The Palmer Musuem. I love the idea and the concept I just hate
the way it was done. From the very start it looked like they had no idea where to put it so they just shoe horned into onto the visual arts building. I guess that thought that made sense, you know art and all.
And this is coming from someone with a BFA in Art from PSU.
I haven't been in The Palmer Museum in a few years but is there room in the Museum
to display them until they get the proper funding? I mean its not unusual for Museum's to rotate their works and or lend them out.
Also what are the major complaints about attaching it to the Arboretum? I've been to a lot of Museum's that do have "gardens" around them. Its not uncommon.

Okay, I too am impressed by the collection and stunned anyone would trust our BOT to do something worthwhile with it. Isn't there a less expensive alternative to a brand new museum? Or is a new museum needed so it can have Barron's name on it? Why not renovate Palmer? You can't show every piece of art all the time - renovate Palmer and go from there. It has a great location.

 

[Elwood Blues]

The link doesn't work, and I couldn't watch the video - but in general, I really don't understand the Barron hatred on this board. It's just become knee jerk and reflexive and mean spirited. If Barron is for something - virtually this entire board is against it. I also don't understand the legislature's apparent hostility toward Penn State. We've seen it for years.

Your anger should be directed at our legislature, which has been reducing support for PSU for decades - funds the Univ at levels far below most other flagship state univ's....and does ridiculous things like hike up turnpike tolls to unsustainable levels while skimming hundreds of millions off the top and sending it to SEPTA. Oh yeah, and we have the largest full time state legislature in the nation...which I'm sure operates very efficiently.

 

[interrobang]

1. 
   

   Okay, I too am impressed by the collection and stunned anyone would trust our BOT to do something worthwhile with it. Isn't there a less expensive alternative to a brand new museum? Or is a new museum needed so it can have Barron's name on it? Why not renovate Palmer? You can't show every piece of art all the time - renovate Palmer and go from there. It has a great location.

   unless I heard it wrong, renovating Palmer is one of the projects on the list of outstanding projects. That started the line of questioning by the Rep, "why is renovating Palmer on this list, but your boondoggle museum isn't?"

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The link doesn't work, and I couldn't watch the video - but in general, I really don't understand the Barron hatred on this board. It's just become knee jerk and reflexive and mean spirited. If Barron is for something - virtually this entire board is against it. I also don't understand the legislature's apparent hostility toward Penn State. We've seen it for years.

Your anger should be directed at our legislature, which has been reducing support for PSU for decades - funds the Univ at levels far below most other flagship state univ's....and does ridiculous things like hike up turnpike tolls to unsustainable levels while skimming hundreds of millions off the top and sending it to SEPTA. Oh yeah, and we have the largest full time state legislature in the nation...which I'm sure operates very efficiently.

The rep in the video pretty clearly lays out the many issues with this kind of project; namely that it's not a priority, especially when there is a backlog of other, more 'student focused' projects waiting to be funded/finished. And I think it goes without saying that paying nearly $100mm for a 'nice to have' modern art museum is worth digging into a bit, given the track record of this BOT to overpay for just about everything. I'd also add that this money likely comes at the expense of a true revenue generator for the school - the football program. If CJF has to haggle and squirm for every dollar (for coaches, facilities, etc.) while Barron siphons as much as he can from the money CJF makes for the school - for pie in the sky projects he hopes to put his name on - you can see why his name pops up on the coaching carousel lists at the end of every year

 

[interrobang]

The link doesn't work, and I couldn't watch the video - but in general, I really don't understand the Barron hatred on this board. It's just become knee jerk and reflexive and mean spirited. If Barron is for something - virtually this entire board is against it. I also don't understand the legislature's apparent hostility toward Penn State. We've seen it for years.

Your anger should be directed at our legislature, which has been reducing support for PSU for decades - funds the Univ at levels far below most other flagship state univ's....and does ridiculous things like hike up turnpike tolls to unsustainable levels while skimming hundreds of millions off the top and sending it to SEPTA. Oh yeah, and we have the largest full time state legislature in the nation...which I'm sure operates very efficiently.

If Penn State wants to be treated like a state university, then they need to become a public university, not a semi-public one, picking and choosing the aspects of public/private schools that benefit them the most.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

1. 
   
   unless I heard it wrong, renovating Palmer is one of the projects on the list of outstanding projects. That started the line of questioning by the Rep, "why is renovating Palmer on this list, but your boondoggle museum isn't?"

Right - forgot to add that.

 

[BBrown]

Right - forgot to add that.

Did I misunderstand or was the renovating more in making it functioning class rooms?
Also Barron did mention The Zoeller Gallery but I didn't understand where he was going with it.

 

[Art]

The link doesn't work, and I couldn't watch the video - but in general, I really don't understand the Barron hatred on this board. It's just become knee jerk and reflexive and mean spirited. If Barron is for something - virtually this entire board is against it. I also don't understand the legislature's apparent hostility toward Penn State. We've seen it for years.

Your anger should be directed at our legislature, which has been reducing support for PSU for decades - funds the Univ at levels far below most other flagship state univ's....and does ridiculous things like hike up turnpike tolls to unsustainable levels while skimming hundreds of millions off the top and sending it to SEPTA. Oh yeah, and we have the largest full time state legislature in the nation...which I'm sure operates very efficiently.

Could it be that the legislature is loath to write larger checks to PSU because there is little or no accountability for how the University spends money? Nah, couldn't be that.

 

[interrobang]

Did I misunderstand or was the renovating more in making it functioning class rooms?
Also Barron did mention The Zoeller Gallery but I didn't understand where he was going with it.

There was no talk about what the planned renovation was for. Barron just tried to further justify the new museum noting that it would open up central campus real estate for a new classroom inside Palmer.

 

[Art]

If Penn State wants to be treated like a state university, then they need to become a public university, not a semi-public one, picking and choosing the aspects of public/private schools that benefit them the most.

Bingo.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Did I misunderstand or was the renovating more in making it functioning class rooms?
Also Barron did mention The Zoeller Gallery but I didn't understand where he was going with it.

In general, I really do love the idea. I also like the concept and architect's design (they also did Michigan's Museum of Art) - it nicely integrates functional space for art appreciation and education in a bucolic setting and it really could be a nice centerpiece for the eastern side of campus. I also think it could be popular and worth visiting, especially with the generous gift from the Palmer family. I always thought art and art appreciation was undervalued/promoted at Penn State and this would really ratchet things up quite a bit. That said, I agree it is not a pressing need, and especially not one that should result in increased fees/tuition for students. It also should not come at the expense of funding for football - like Chris Rock said, 'daddy gets the big steak.'

 

[Art]

In general, I really do love the idea. I also like the concept and architect's design (they also did Michigan's Museum of Art) - it nicely integrates functional space for art appreciation and education in a bucolic setting and it really could be a nice centerpiece for the eastern side of campus. I also think it could be popular and worth visiting, especially with the generous gift from the Palmer family. I always thought art and art appreciation was undervalued/promoted at Penn State and this would really ratchet things up quite a bit. That said, I agree it is not a pressing need, and especially not one that should result in increased fees/tuition for students. It also should not come at the expense of funding for football - like Chris Rock said, 'daddy gets the big steak.'

Yes, the Immortal Rod said cash was fungible. He did not say it was limitless, though he behaved as if it were.

 

[WestSideLion]

Appraisal probably comes from the same consultant that projected attendance at the new museum.

I suspect a lot of that comes from The Palmer Estate and that collection. Last I heard (my aunt married Barbara and Jim’s son and sits on The Palmer Museum Board), things were tense between them and the University. Donors don’t like it when you take their money and then try to extort more many years later to keep their name on a project. I wouldn’t bet the ranch on all that artwork landing on display.

 

[MacNit07]

The link doesn't work, and I couldn't watch the video - but in general, I really don't understand the Barron hatred on this board. It's just become knee jerk and reflexive and mean spirited. If Barron is for something - virtually this entire board is against it. I also don't understand the legislature's apparent hostility toward Penn State. We've seen it for years.

Your anger should be directed at our legislature, which has been reducing support for PSU for decades - funds the Univ at levels far below most other flagship state univ's....and does ridiculous things like hike up turnpike tolls to unsustainable levels while skimming hundreds of millions off the top and sending it to SEPTA. Oh yeah, and we have the largest full time state legislature in the nation...which I'm sure operates very efficiently.

For similar reasons that you pointed out to criticize our state politicians, I do not support Barron (terrible steward of funds and not meeting institutional mission). But that said, I do agree with you that politicians and their glass houses are the last group that should be throwing stones at Barron.

 

[Art]

I suspect a lot of that comes from The Palmer Estate and that collection. Last I heard (my aunt married Barbara and Jim’s son and sits on The Palmer Museum Board), things were tense between them and the University. Donors don’t like it when you take their money and then try to extort more many years later to keep their name on a project. I wouldn’t bet the ranch on all that artwork landing on display.

Could very well be. Virtual certainty that the family/estate has appraisals for insurance and/or probate purposes. BTW, the post to which you responded was TIC, though I appreciate your insight.

 

[interrobang]

For similar reasons that you pointed out to criticize our state politicians, I do not support Barron (terrible steward of funds and not meeting institutional mission). But that said, I do agree with you that politicians and their glass houses are the last group that should be throwing stones at Barron.

They're the only ones who can throw stones where they won't be completely ignored. Granted, still mostly ignored, but not completely.

 

[Achowalogan]

But the expensive painting is what will attract the half million visitors per year.

Barron testifies along the lines...."people come to PSU for a football game and they need something else for their family to do, they can visit the museum..." nothing said about people coming to see THE painting.

In a former life I served in development for a national non-profit. From that experience, sometimes a "gift" isn't a gift when it requires additional $ resources from the organization...the "gift" becomes a burden and takes away from serving the organization's real mission.

This "gift" should have also included sufficient $ to fund museum construction, plus $ in endowment to cover all future operating and maintenance costs...then it truly would have been a gift...

 

[MJG-90]

Barron testifies along the lines...."people come to PSU for a football game and they need something else for their family to do, they can visit the museum..." nothing said about people coming to see THE painting.

Right, and nobody reasonable believes a half million people will enter the museum each year either. I was joking when I said one piece of art would be the draw, as if it was the Mona Lisa.

 

[Nitwit]

Perhaps they should also build a convention center to make that part of campus a true regional destination. They could host flower shows, auto shows, home shows, outdoor sports shows, even farm shows, and have a year round stream of visitors from around the state who would take advantage of the arboretum and art museum as well. Perhaps they could repurpose the BJC as part of this project. The educational mission of the university could be enhanced by the event planning, hotel and restaurant management activities needed to support this development. And they could lease commercial space attached to these facilities for income similar to things done along the Drexel or F&M campuses among many others. Put in a creamery outlet, some shopping, and a few restaurants so we could all go to Wendy’s or Chick Fil A for breakfast before the game.

 

[MacNit07]

They're the only ones who can throw stones where they won't be completely ignored. Granted, still mostly ignored, but not completely.

But they have zero credibility. There own house is not in order - far from it. Politically, they need to install some accountability by insuring that BOT of PSU is not filled with so many unaccountable political appointees. If they would do that (possibly in exchange for state funding levels on par with other states), perhaps PSU could get on a path similar to, say, a Purdue.

 

[Art]

But they have zero credibility. There own house is not in order - far from it. Politically, they need to install some accountability by insuring that BOT of PSU is not filled with so many unaccountable political appointees. If they would do that (possibly in exchange for state funding levels on par with other states), perhaps PSU could get on a path similar to, say, a Purdue.

You'd have to change PSU's charter to do that.

Years a go I spoke with (a now former) legislator who investigated the possibility of what you suggest. Long and short of it is that PSU wasn't interested (in making the necessary changes, which go well beyond how the Board is constituted) and the pols were disinclined to provide more funding. Do you believe anything has changed?

 

[interrobang]

Perhaps they should also build a convention center to make that part of campus a true regional destination. They could host flower shows, auto shows, home shows, outdoor sports shows, even farm shows, and have a year round stream of visitors from around the state who would take advantage of the arboretum and art museum as well. Perhaps they could repurpose the BJC as part of this project. The educational mission of the university could be enhanced by the event planning, hotel and restaurant management activities needed to support this development. And they could lease commercial space attached to these facilities for income similar to things done along the Drexel or F&M campuses among many others. Put in a creamery outlet, some shopping, and a few restaurants so we could all go to Wendy’s or Chick Fil A for breakfast before the game.

The BJC already serves as that, but it wouldn't surprise me if a convention center is the next boondoggle

 

[cment]

After seeing the art that was bequeathed its impressive.
What a I don't like is the price tag and what I don't believe is Barron in general.
I never was a fan of The Palmer Musuem. I love the idea and the concept I just hate
the way it was done. From the very start it looked like they had no idea where to put it so they just shoe horned into onto the visual arts building. I guess that thought that made sense, you know art and all.
And this is coming from someone with a BFA in Art from PSU.
I haven't been in The Palmer Museum in a few years but is there room in the Museum
to display them until they get the proper funding? I mean its not unusual for Museum's to rotate their works and or lend them out.
Also what are the major complaints about attaching it to the Arboretum? I've been to a lot of Museum's that do have "gardens" around them. Its not uncommon.

yes, the bequeathed collection is good. But if the new place is run like Palmer, I t won’t matter how good the collection. There is more to a museum than just what hangs on the wall. If they threw 50m worth of art on the walls of Palmer, it would Do nothing to the perception by the art world that Palmer is a joke.

 

[WestSideLion]

Could very well be. Virtual certainty that the family/estate has appraisals for insurance and/or probate purposes. BTW, the post to which you responded was TIC, though I appreciate your insight.

Oh, your tone was understood.

I was merely building on a few responses. Your post was the one that I selected for the composite comment.

 

[WestSideLion]

Barbara Palmer gifted her art collection to Penn State last year. I have no idea how it was valued but it a large collection and includes an original Georgia O’Keefe. O’Keefe paintings have fetched over $40M at auction.

https://news.psu.edu/story/587164/2.../palmer-museum-art-announces-landmark-bequest

Barbara and Jim had some amazing O’Keefes. One hung above their dining room table and Barbara took great pride in discussing it with dinner guests. The Palmers owned an entire luxury condo building floor. Half was used primarily to store art. You can hold A LOT of art in a space that large.

I heard there is tension with The Palmer trustees in terms of where Barbara’s collection should be shown. They obviously believe the original namesake museum should be it. The University had tried to get more money for the new facility as a means to keeping the Palmer name attached.

These are very high-end first-world problems, I know.

 

[The Spin Meister]

He also said they have $50 million in artwork waiting to be displayed (which I find very hard to believe)

Just sell that, and you almost have the new place paid for!

Folks, this is Ahab. And the museum is his Moby Dick. You can see it in his eyes as he desperately tries to justify it. 'Best museum between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.' Holy f***. Also, where did $50mm worth of art come from? Is this a few Warhols? Maybe a couple Picassos? Or a few thousand pieces of nothing? It's embarrassing to watch.

There is a huge tax scam behind all these art museums and valuable art work. If you buy a piece for ten million you can 'donate' it to a museum to be displayed for a certain length of time and get a huge tax right off for doing so.

So you buy said piece, 'donate' it to various museums for a decade, right off much of the purchase price, and then sell it to some other person, often a family member, so they can run the same scam. And do it all with out the security issues such pieces bring.

I don't know all the details on how this works since I do not run in that pack of wolves

 

[BBrown]

Barbara and Jim had some amazing O’Keefes. One hung above their dining room table and Barbara took great pride in discussing it with dinner guests. The Palmers owned an entire luxury condo building floor. Half was used primarily to store art. You can hold A LOT of art in a space that large.

I heard there is tension with The Palmer trustees in terms of where Barbara’s collection should be shown. They obviously believe the original namesake museum should be it. The University had tried to get more money for the new facility as a means to keeping the Palmer name attached.

These are very high-end first-world problems, I know.

I would have loved to have heard that conversation, I'm an O'Keefe super fanboy.
I've been to her house in Abiqui and Ghost Ranch twice and am planning a return trip to Taos and Abiqui in June.

 

[cment]

There is a huge tax scam behind all these art museums and valuable art work. If you buy a piece for ten million you can 'donate' it to a museum to be displayed for a certain length of time and get a huge tax right off for doing so.

So you buy said piece, 'donate' it to various museums for a decade, right off much of the purchase price, and then sell it to some other person, often a family member, so they can run the same scam. And do it all with out the security issues such pieces bring.

I don't know all the details on how this works since I do not run in that pack of wolves

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You are correct, as long as the art appreciates significantly.

 

[BBrown]

There is a huge tax scam behind all these art museums and valuable art work. If you buy a piece for ten million you can 'donate' it to a museum to be displayed for a certain length of time and get a huge tax right off for doing so.

So you buy said piece, 'donate' it to various museums for a decade, right off much of the purchase price, and then sell it to some other person, often a family member, so they can run the same scam. And do it all with out the security issues such pieces bring.

I don't know all the details on how this works since I do not run in that pack of wolves

View embedded media

View embedded media

Screw that. If I have an O'Keefe, Frederick Church and Thomas Hart Benton (3 of my favorite artists) I'm hanging them in my house.
I'm selfish like that.