Beast of the East
- Thread starter Mcnulty7310
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It happened so fast and wasn't as obvious as a big slam, so I can see how it got missed, but it's a pretty bad call, especially since the kid got pinned in it.
I'm not a ref but I don't view that as an illegal cut back because while Poulin kicks his leg behind Ungar's, Poulin's leg isn't actually used as a lever against Ungar's, which is the basis for the move's illegality. Poulin is basically dropping onto his hip and using his sinking momentum to drag Ungar back. To the extent Poulin's left leg even makes contact with Ungar it's incidental to the reason why Ungar is suddenly on his back. At no point watching this do I get the sense that Poulin is endangering Ungar.
That said, in the heat of the moment I imagine most refs mindful of the rule at all would have difficulty making such distinctions because this otherwise looks a lot like an illegal cut back, regardless of whether Poulin is actually kicking out Ungar's leg.
That said, in the heat of the moment I imagine most refs mindful of the rule at all would have difficulty making such distinctions because this otherwise looks a lot like an illegal cut back, regardless of whether Poulin is actually kicking out Ungar's leg.
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The difference is that lifting the calf does not risk the ankle getting trapped under Poulin as Ungar falls back. That danger is the reason the move is illegal. If that ankle doesn't come off the mat clean like it did, there's a good chance he suffers a serious sprain if not a broken ankle. Very dangerous.
I get why you want to find a reason for it to be legal, but any blocking of the back of the leg with your own leg/hip is illegal. Doesn't matter if you think that's the main reason the opponent fell backwards.
For the record, I don't think your analysis of the move is correct either. Poulin jumps backwards away from the leg, and then swings back into the leg. Ungar's foot only comes off the mat as it is swept out by Poulin's hip swinging into it (making contact before his hip hits the ground against how you described it).
This video would actually make a great instructional video demonstrating an illegal cutback to new officials.
It was a great demonstration of athleticism, body awareness, and feel from Poulin, but it was 100% super illegal.
I'll defer to you as you're definitely more familiar with the rule than me, but i'd be interested in hearing from refs (or other refs, if you're one), I know a few others are on here.
But I still don't think Poulin's leg is "blocking" Ungar's, I think his hip is doing all the work; and yeah, his hip does that work a split second before it's grounded, but the fact that it's his hip and not his leg or ankle, to me, means that he's delivering Ungar to the mat safely. But I also totally get why, even if my distinction was meaningful and I'll buy your explanation that it's not, refs should just blow the whistle.
Howard had his arm in a sling after the Crookham match and didn't wrestle again.
Hard to do when your trying to figure out on the fly what the hell the kid just did. When watching it I was totally taken back because I did not expect that from the position he was in which is why I was wondering if a wrestler could somehow change or tweak that move to make it legal
Beat me to it -- the illegal part of the move (the leg sweep) was completely unnecessary. Even from standing, simply roll it as if it were a cradle. Or, bring it to the mat and roll it.
Thomas Haines also hit a standing broomstick in HS, IIRC at Super 32 (but might have been at states). Something to see from someone that large ... though I'm too lazy to find it. Probably behind Flo's paywall. He didn't do the leg sweep either.
Dean Peterson who won 120 is a dawg. I’ve been very high on the this young man and wish him all the best at Princeton. Would love to see him follow Robbie up as 125er but i won’t ask for too much
So, correct me if I'm wrong... Plant the foot behind the opponents inside leg and lean/pull him back. As long as you don't sweep the leg you're ok?
Yes, that video was a great demonstration of a legal cutback/broomstick. I had a teammate that pinned some really good kids with it. In order for it to be legal, you have to use your arm to block the leg as you pull them back. If the leg/hip blocks it, especially if it's swinging into it like Poulin's, it's illegal.
I get your distinction, and you're right that it was his hip making contact, but the hip is functionally equivalent to a leg in this instance. The swinging motion into the back of the leg is the illegal part. In fact, from a safety standpoint, the hip is significantly more dangerous than the leg or foot. There's a much higher chance of the opponent's ankle getting caught underneath the hip, which is the situation the rule is meant to avoid.
If you finish your advantaged single, you don't have to worry about getting cut-backed/broomstick'd...
My kid got hit with a broomstick 4 a couple weeks ago. He didn't know what hit him (neither did I until I rewatched the video). Pretty sweet move but you need to strike when the wrestler with the single is off balance or in transition for it to work.
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