This thread is funny. This is not a loss by any means. Dread comes in and would take any of what would be his minutes anyway
Bostick transferring
- Thread starter PSU_1991
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So then, tell us who is the "most prolific"?
Garner holds single season and career 3-pointers made records at PSU. He holds the single-season Big Ten 3-pointers made record. He was 2nd in the Big Ten in 3PT% this year, and 14th overall. 3rd All-Time in 3 pointers made in the Big Ten.
Not sure where you're coming up with the assertion that calling him the "most prolific" is "a bit extreme." It seems entirely correct, in fact. And, if not entirely correct, at least arguably correct. Not near being "a bit extreme."
The same for Tony Carr re being the best basketball player PSU ever had.
Carr was great for PSU but he didn't get us to the NCAA tournament even though he had talented teammates like Reaves, Stevens, Watkins, and Garner. I just think there's more to being the best ever than offensive statistics and draft position (which is based on perceived future potential).
Carr had a sweet 3 pt shot and he was fantastic running the screen roll with Watkins. He was also lazy on defense and sometimes made poor decisions on offense. There's no doubt that his game peaked during March. PSU will miss him because he was very good but even more because they don't have an experienced replacement on the roster. Same with Garner. He was very good but we will mostly miss him because we don't have other proven perimeter shooters returning.
Carr played a me-first game for 3/4 of the season, which was a large reason why Penn State didn't make the NCAA's this year. I hated Carr's game at around this time, as I have seen players who play how Carr did absolutely ruin teams time and time again. To Carr's credit, his game improved towards the end of February, and the team started to play better and more consistently. I saw that David Jones reported about a team meeting in mid season, centered around Carr. Maybe that was the catalyst for the improvement that we saw.
If Carr is drafted, it will be based on the potential shown during the last 6 weeks or so of the season. I think Carr would have done better for himself by staying and showing everyone that he truly "gets it", but there are also stories of plenty of players who hurt their draft position by staying an extra year. So, good luck to him.
bdgan, you hit the nail on the head about being judged "the best ever" not necessarily being reflected in stats. Carr was holding the team back from reaching its potential for a good portion of the season, and then he became a big asset towards the end of the season.
Carr had 30% of the team field goal attempts. He had better lead the team in scoring.
Carr was eighth on the team in field goal percentage. Three subs, Bostic, Moore and Harrah were higher.
He has some crazy athletic dunks this season. He is a replaceable loss, however.
A bit over-dramatic, are we? Having Bostick on the team or not has very, very little barring on whether or not we make the tourney next year (and we are finalists for two impact grad transfers for next year).
Carr was a good player, but we have 3 other players who averaged double figures last season (and looking at adding another 1-2 from the grad transfer route), one being the NIT MVP, returning.
I wish him luck. But, I'm not sure how relevant this is to next year. He played very little, or not at all, during the NIT games. When he was playing there were some liabilities; it was generally better when Wheeler was in. So Chambers will have to replace some minutes.
I still think Carr was insane to leave college early. If he gets drafted, that's good for him and for PSU (Chambers can tell recruits about two players who are currently in the NBA). But, I think there is a chance he will not get drafted at all if he slips up in workouts.
I still think Carr was insane to leave college early. If he gets drafted, that's good for him and for PSU (Chambers can tell recruits about two players who are currently in the NBA). But, I think there is a chance he will not get drafted at all if he slips up in workouts.
Carr is projected to go somewhere between 20-35. Last year the 35th draft pick signed a contract for about 4million, 2 of which was fully guaranteed. The 25th draft Pick signed a contract worth 9million and the 20th was 10.5.
Carr is likely to make a million or more per year in the NBA. I doubt he would significantly improve his draft stock with another year in college. Selfishly I wish he decided to stay. But i get why he left.
Carr is likely to make a million or more per year in the NBA. I doubt he would significantly improve his draft stock with another year in college. Selfishly I wish he decided to stay. But i get why he left.
All I can do is speculate, but maybe someone got in Carr's ear mid-season and convinced him that his game up to that point was not going to help him come the NBA draft.
I think 35 is on the high end of where Carr will be picked. 20 is a pipe dream.
I think he will be in the 40-50 range and hopefully he does not fall below that.
I think Carr had a great chance to improve his draft stock with another year in college. He would have been surrounded by a strong supporting cast with Harrar and Watkins coming back. All PSU would have needed was a perimeter shooter. Work on his defense and prove that his NIT leadership was for real (as opposed to the hero ball he was playing at times earlier in the year). I think he could have moved up to 15-20 which would have meant a lot more guaranteed money.
I was surprised that Carr hired an agent. He could have been evaluated while leaving his options open. He could have tried to improve his position and return to PSU if things didn't work out. It seems he preferred $1 million now instead of possibly 3-4x that amount next year. I haven't seen any mock draft that has Carr listed in the first round.
https://www.landof10.com/big-ten/nb...und-top-players-2018-nba-draft-order-april-15
https://www.seccountry.com/sec/2018...op-players-2018-nba-draft-order-april-15-2018
Carr wil be fine. He'll get drafted and get a chance to prove himself. He might make an NBA team. If he doesn't he'll play for money somewhere. I just think his best choice would have been to hold off on hiring an agent.
How can you say we always end up going nowhere after we just won the NIT in such convincing fashion? lol Come on, get real.
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Maybe you are just kidding.
Many of us watched the NIT games, and it is fun as a PSU fan to see the BB team get extra games and then win them. But until the team even makes the NCAA, it is still in no where land. And if a team is in no where land, and takes a step back (losing Garner to graduation, and then seeing Carr leave), then where is it at that point?
You fought with me in the thread where I suggested it was better for the program to make the NCAA tourney and lose in the round of 32 than it was to win the NIT.
Now you're saying, while it was fun to watch them in the NIT, until they even make the NCAA, they're in nowhere land, meaning it was obviously better for the program to make the NCAA (which would indicate the program, perhaps, wasn't in nowhere land).
Explain.
It's too early to say that PSU won't be good in 2018/2019. We bring back Stevens, Reaves, and Watkins. The problem is we need guards. IMO a grad transfer is critical. Dread might fill one spot but counting on two mid level freshmen is too much to ask. We'll see what happens.
The bigger concern is how we followed up on the 25th ranked class of 2016 with a class that failed to make the top 100. Next year we lose Reaves and possibly Watkins and Stevens. Then what? The key is to keep the pipeline flowing. Work needs to be done or PSU will turn out to be a one class wonder.
It definitely was fun for fans to see the team play 5 games and win the NIT. And building on those 5 extra games that were big for team development with a young team would be a big time cause for optimism. But with Carr leaving, who was a big big part of the young nucleus, I believe that somewhat diminishes the value of those NIT games going forward, with obviously the goal being to get to the NCAA and win games in it. That's why I agree with the post that said a step forward, and a step backward.
I wasn't fighting with you. I just didn't agree with you.....
Yep, a top 100 player would be a great way to fill the Bostic scholarship. But that is likely a pipe dream. A grad transfer or two could help the team win more games in 2018/19, but to keep the programs's momentum on the uptick Chambers needs to bring in a couple very talented recruits to replace the Reaves, Watkins and Stevens.
Obviously folks were using a different timeline, but most of the folks I talked to, whose opinions I respect, had come to a consensus that giving Chambers one more year ... which was this past year (2017-2018) was a gift to Chambers ... one that need not be given. But if it was given, that a bare minimum performance of an NCAA title berth, and some decent recruiting, would be necessary to retain Chambers' services beyond this year.
Of course, then a large part of the fan base got so excited by some wins against OSU, and an NIT run, and it was like everyone lost their minds.
Chambers should have been canned following 2016-2017. He definitely should have been gone after 2017-2018, after giving him a last chance to do something basic, like making the NCAA tourney.
He "lucked" into some talent ... he didn't follow it up with much of anything, recruiting-wise, to show us that he'd be able to sustain anything resembling an NCAA tourney squad (in many seasons), he wasn't getting a lot out of the talent he did bring in, and there really didn't seem to be any loyalty to Chambers in building a program - rather it was just a convenient landing place for some buddies, who were able to play together because they had a desperate program with their arms wide open.
No, I don't have the answer to "who's next?" or "who is going to change things?" But I know that Chambers ISN'T the answer, and, thus, you move on. You don't make any of the shots that you fail to take and, I therefore know that moving on from Chambers has a better chance of success than sticking with him.
Of course, then a large part of the fan base got so excited by some wins against OSU, and an NIT run, and it was like everyone lost their minds.
Chambers should have been canned following 2016-2017. He definitely should have been gone after 2017-2018, after giving him a last chance to do something basic, like making the NCAA tourney.
He "lucked" into some talent ... he didn't follow it up with much of anything, recruiting-wise, to show us that he'd be able to sustain anything resembling an NCAA tourney squad (in many seasons), he wasn't getting a lot out of the talent he did bring in, and there really didn't seem to be any loyalty to Chambers in building a program - rather it was just a convenient landing place for some buddies, who were able to play together because they had a desperate program with their arms wide open.
No, I don't have the answer to "who's next?" or "who is going to change things?" But I know that Chambers ISN'T the answer, and, thus, you move on. You don't make any of the shots that you fail to take and, I therefore know that moving on from Chambers has a better chance of success than sticking with him.
Timing is everything. Even though I thought Chambers should have been fired before this past season, it ain't happenin' now. I'm not going to be a hypocrite about it, but I ain't pissin' into the wind either.
In 2009 we won the NIT which could have been a springboard. We failed to make the NCAA the following year. Then with a senior lead team we make the NCAA in 2011 but have nothing left to sustain the success thereafter. DeChelllis leaves and we end up having to start all over again. I just don't want to see kids leave before reaching their potential leaving us in need of depth once again. I see the potential to make the NCAA in 2019 but then what happens? The 2019 recruiting class will make or break Chambers and this program. If we come away with a pedestrian 2019 class and Watkins and Stevens are gone the 2019-2020 season could send us back to the bottom of the Big Ten. My point, whenever it appears the program is about to take the next step the roster is turned over and we seem to get nothing out of the noteworthy success.
This reminds me of the 1999-00 season, when Dunn saved his job with an NIT run. The next year was an NCAA berth. I don't know if Pat will turn this season into long term success, but he's likely back next year.
2009-10 was such a disaster it was unbelievable. That team was arguably moe talented than the one that went to the NCAA in 2011. They somehow started like 0-10 in the B1G, several good players transferred and Trey Burke decommitted. that was a point where the program really had a chance to take off and blew it.
Having followed this program for 25 years, the answer is, try to consistently have seasons like the one we just had (.500 in the conference). That will mean NCAA berths on a semi-regular basis, and recruiting will improve. Over time, someone could build that into an elite program. But it will not happen overnight; that has been proven. I think Pat could probably be the right coach to get PSU to the first level (consistently ..500 in the conference) if he does not get burned out.
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Timing is a lot for recruiting as well. The reason last year's recruiting class was sub-par (ratings wise) was because we didn't have any ships open until late in the late signing period. Snagging Wheeler and Harrar in that situation was doing a pretty good job at discovering talent in that situation, IMO.
As for this season, we are finalists for two pretty legit grad transfers (guard and a big).
As for next recruiting class, it has the potential to be very good in PSU standards. Philly is loaded and we are in with some pretty good players in that class. We'll see what Pat can do.
I can't see Pat not getting an extension/ I'm fine with that. He represents the University well and the team ended the season on an up note. That said, if he doesn't make the NCAA next year, I'd can him.
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