Bottom line is there is no better baseball player than Mike trout
- Thread starter Mr. Potter
- Start date
There would have to be some pretty old members to compare him to Ruth. My grandmother is 94 and she might have early memories of The Babe. She’s also not on the board.
There would have to be some pretty old members to compare him to Ruth. My grandmother is 94 and she might have early memories of The Babe. She’s also not on the board.
Yeah, he last played, on a limited basis, in 1935. I don't think there are too many folks on this board that saw him play. My late grandfather did, and told me about him.
Not sure if you put much (or any) stock in advanced metrics, but Trout has a 3.7 career dWAR compared with Griffey's 2.2. Mantle's advanced defensive metrics are awful, with a -9.6. Mays of course was otherworldly, with an 18.2.
Not much since they don't factor in that Griffey and, especially, Mantle played injured for a lot of their careers (and Mantle was hung over for most of his). In these cases, just have to go by eyeballs. Mantle, sober and on two good legs, could have been the best.
I've seen it written that Trout might be the greatest player of all time. If you go by WAR and year to year averages compared to other HOF's.
Similar Batters through 26
Similar Batters through 26
- * - Signifies Hall of Famer
- Frank Robinson (955.4) *
- Ken Griffey Jr. (940.0) *
- Mickey Mantle (935.5) *
- Hank Aaron (909.7) *
- Miguel Cabrera (896.6)
- Orlando Cepeda (877.8) *
- Mel Ott (877.3) *
- Eddie Mathews (866.2) *
- Andruw Jones (863.5)
- Albert Pujols (858.8)
- Vada Pinson (955.2) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
- Frank Robinson (957.8) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
- Mickey Mantle (941.3) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
- Mickey Mantle (941.1) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
- Mickey Mantle (960.6) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
- Frank Robinson (948.8) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
- Frank Robinson (955.4) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
Bonds and Trout are the best two I've seen in my lifetime. No one else is even close.
Bonds out for PEDs.
Talked to a guy over vacation that was reading a book on the Yankee dynasty. Big chapter on Mantle. Mentioned before he got injured his time from home to first was the fastest ever. So fast that he was beating out routine ground balls to the left side of the infield on a normal basis. Hitting home runs at distances never seen before. There was legit talk in the commissioners office that they might have to change the rules to accommodate Mantle as he was too good. Look up longest home runs ever. Mantle #1 is 643 feet (he has #2 at 565 ft also). Next guys are at 540 ft and down. Think about that, in 60 years nobody has beat that or even come remotely close, there is not another record like it in all of sports.
Probably say Mays was the all around best "modern" player due to defensive prowess added to his hitting. Look at Babe Ruth's hitting numbers compared to his peers and he was in a different stratosphere against his contemporaries.
Trout if he stays on his trajectory and remains healthy, he will be in that conversation for greatest ever and have the stats to back it up.
Talked to a guy over vacation that was reading a book on the Yankee dynasty. Big chapter on Mantle. Mentioned before he got injured his time from home to first was the fastest ever. So fast that he was beating out routine ground balls to the left side of the infield on a normal basis. Hitting home runs at distances never seen before. There was legit talk in the commissioners office that they might have to change the rules to accommodate Mantle as he was too good. Look up longest home runs ever. Mantle #1 is 643 feet (he has #2 at 565 ft also). Next guys are at 540 ft and down. Think about that, in 60 years nobody has beat that or even come remotely close, there is not another record like it in all of sports.
Probably say Mays was the all around best "modern" player due to defensive prowess added to his hitting. Look at Babe Ruth's hitting numbers compared to his peers and he was in a different stratosphere against his contemporaries.
Trout if he stays on his trajectory and remains healthy, he will be in that conversation for greatest ever and have the stats to back it up.
Acuna is a quality baseball player, but not even in the same conversation as Trout. Trout, in his rookie year (in which he turned 21), posted a 10.1 WAR in 639 PA. Acuna, who will turn 22 in December, has posted 5.0 WAR in 578 PA so far this year. In 8 seasons, Trout's worst season saw him post a WAR of 6.9 ... when he missed time. Other than that, his lowest WAR was 8.3.
Trout is otherworldly.
Use Bonds simply before the PEDs. He's still the best of his generation and in the conversation for the best ever IMO. Plus, since a lot were using PEDs I don't even care about that to be honest. Not saying you're wrong to exclude him but there's an excellent argument for him.
Get back to me about Acuna is 6-8 years
Mantle, and not just because he's white and plays in the American League. The main reason is because he is really fast, muscular, and strong, just like the young Mantle was. People talk all the time about how fast Trout is, how he covers ground, hits for average, and steals bases. But when I was reading an article a couple of days ago about Cody Bellinger hitting two HR's to get to a major league leading 41 HR's at the time, the article noted that he was actually tied with someone else at 41 HR's. That someone was Mike Trout, who has somewhat quietly put up big HR numbers. I guess people simply expect it of Trout, but 41 HR.s in mid August is pretty damn impressive for anyone.
Re Mantle's HR distances ... those distances were later invalidated. For instance, the alleged 565 ft HR was measured from where some kid said he picked the ball up. Obviously, unless the thing just planted there upon landing, it would have bounced and rolled until it came to rest outside of the stadium.
What is the belief on when Bonds began using PEDs? He had some damn good years in Pittsburgh but was not a consideration for one of the best players of all time until San Fran. I saw somebody over the summer (I think was that moron Wingo) state that Bonds was a top 10 outfielder off all time just with what he did in Pittsburgh. He later doubled down and said he was top 5. His stats do not back that up.
Mantle's shot off the facade (off of Chuck Stobbs, I believe) is clearly beyond what ANYONE else has hit. By quite a margin. Just an unbelievable shot. I say that as a Dodgers fan and supporter of Mays for GOAT.
Bonds won 2 MVP's with Pittsburgh and came in 2nd another year, also with 3 GG's, so he had a 3 year run as good as any OF possibly ever. But with SF he won 5 more MVP's. Bonds accumulated stats are the GOAT, but are steroid aided after his age 35 season.
I get the romanticism and legend of the older generations of baseball players (to this day, although I'm not a Dodgers fan, and never got to watch him pitch live, Sandy Koufax is, by far, my favorite baseball player ... and anyone who tells me he wasn't the greatest can stick it, no matter the numbers), but that shot off Stobbs was the alleged 565 ft HR, and the the subsequent analysis of that HR's distance, and the tape measure shots since, would disagree with your assessment. Still one of the all-time greats, of course.
Trout hit #42 in the first game of today’s DH’er
Think about this... Trout is 2nd in WAR for active players in only 9 seasons. He has already equaled Derek Jeters career WAR and passed Tony Gwynn. Assuming he stays healthy he will pass Frank Thomas and Reggie jackson by seasons end.
I believe he has a higher career WAR than all of this years HOF inductees
Insane
Think about this... Trout is 2nd in WAR for active players in only 9 seasons. He has already equaled Derek Jeters career WAR and passed Tony Gwynn. Assuming he stays healthy he will pass Frank Thomas and Reggie jackson by seasons end.
I believe he has a higher career WAR than all of this years HOF inductees
Insane
_ Best I ever saw was Ty Cobb. Loved watching him play!There would have to be some pretty old members to compare him to Ruth. My grandmother is 94 and she might have early memories of The Babe. She’s also not on the board.
Cobb is widely credited with setting 90 MLB records during his career.[3][4][5][6] His combined total of 4,065 runs scored and runs batted in (after adjusting for home runs) is still the highest ever produced by any major league player. He still holds several records as of the end of the 2018 season, including the highest career batting average (.366 or .367, depending on source) and most career batting titles with 11 (or 12, depending on source).[7] He retained many other records for almost a half century or more, including most career hits until 1985 (4,189 or 4,191, depending on source),[8][9] most career runs (2,245 or 2,246 depending on source) until 2001,[10] most career games played (3,035) and at bats (11,429 or 11,434 depending on source) until 1974,[11][12] and the modern record for most career stolen bases (892) until 1977.[13] He still holds the career record for stealing home (54 times) and for stealing second base, third base, and home in succession (5 times), and as the youngest player ever to compile 4,000 hits and score 2,000 runs. Cobb ranks fifth all-time in number of games played and committed 271 errors, the most by any American League (AL) outfielder.
On May 12, 1911, playing against the New York Highlanders, he scored from first base on a single to right field, then scored another run from second base on a wild pitch. In the seventh inning, he tied the game with a two-run double. The Highlanders catcher vehemently argued the safe call at second base with the umpire in question, going on at such length that the other Highlanders infielders gathered nearby to watch. Realizing that no one on the Highlanders had called time, Cobb strolled unobserved to third base, and then casually walked towards home plate as if to get a better view of the argument. He then suddenly broke into a run and slid into home plate for the eventual winning run
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Wasn't Mantle off-white, I compared his complexion to Noxema and he's definitely not white
The romanticism in baseball is pretty ridiculous. I’m not sure why people can accept that athletes in all other sports are better today than they were in the past, but for some reason don’t feel that way about baseball. The baseball players of today are bigger, stronger, and faster than the players in the past, but for some reason people think the players of yesterday are better. My dad pitched AA back in the 50’s before he blew his arm out...he said later in life that he wouldn’t even have gotten looked when I was playing because the players were so much more athletic than when he played and I played in the 80’s. The players now are waaaayyy more athletic than when I played. Each generation is better and that goes for baseball as well.
Stats can be misleading. Definitely agree with the person that made that statement even if it was Wingo lol
Nobody liked Cobb, even his teammates. Seems he had a nasty temper;
Cobb, during his career, was involved in numerous other fights, both on and off the field, and several profanity-laced shouting matches. For example, Cobb and umpire Billy Evans arranged to settle their in-game differences through fisticuffs under the grandstand after the game. Members of both teams were spectators, and broke up the scuffle after Cobb had knocked Evans down, pinned him and began choking him.
On May 15, 1912, Cobb assaulted a heckler, Claude Lucker (often misspelled as Lueker), in the stands in New York's Hilltop Park where his Tigers were playing the Highlanders. Lucker and Cobb had traded insults with each other through the first couple of innings. Cobb at one point went to the Highlander dugout to look for the Highlander's owner to try to have Lucker ejected from the game, but his search was in vain.[65] The situation finally climaxed when Lucker allegedly called Cobb a "half-******".[66] Cobb, in his discussion of the incident in the Holmes biography,[67] avoided such explicit words but alluded to Lucker's epithet by saying he was "reflecting on my mother's color and morals". He went on to state that he warned Highlander manager Harry Wolverton that if something wasn't done about that man, there would be trouble. No action was taken. At the end of the sixth inning, after being challenged by teammates Sam Crawford and Jim Delahanty to do something about it, Cobb climbed into the stands and attacked Lucker, who it turned out was handicapped (he had lost all of one hand and three fingers on his other hand in an industrial accident). When onlookers shouted at him to stop because the man had no hands, he reportedly retorted, "I don't care if he got no feet!"[68] Though extremely rare in the 21st century, attacking fans was not so unusual an activity in the early years of baseball. Other notable baseball stars who assaulted heckling fans include Babe Ruth, Cy Young, Rube Waddell, Kid Gleason, Sherry Magee, and Fred Clarke.[69]
I don't do WAR's sir, I just watch baseball. War's don't win games in clutch situations.
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...from my era...
..I'll take Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Roberto Clemente, Joe DiMaggio and Willie Mays against any others...
...and I watched them all play in hundreds of games...
..I'll take Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Roberto Clemente, Joe DiMaggio and Willie Mays against any others...
...and I watched them all play in hundreds of games...
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Actually, that's what WAR reflects. WAR = Wins Above Replacement. How many wins a player contributes over some baseline of a fairly easily replaced player (to simplify). I get it. I grew up in the era where folks still thought batting average, runs, HRs and RBIs were the end all, be all of statistics. I also get the joy of watching a player who just seems to do things well, or spectacularly ... or passes the eye test. But the advanced analysis has a tremendous amount of value. It IS much better than looking at the "Triple Crown "categories or using the "eye test" to judge a guy. The more advanced analysts even poo-poo WAR, but it's the most comprehensive of the most digestible new-age analytics. A team full of Trout-level performers would absolutely destroy a team full of Acuna-level performers. WAR accurately reflects this reality.
Thank you for explaining WAR, I didn't know what it meant and was wondering
Age 21 seasons
Acuna
.296 AVG
.376 OB%
.537 Slug %
.913 OPS
129 OPS+
Trout
.323 AVG
.432 OB %
.557 Slug %
.988 OPS
179 OPS+
Since you don’t do WAR I will assume you don’t do OPS+. An OPS+ of 100 is league average. It also uses park factors to determine the stat. (Angels stadium is a pitchers park)
So it’s clear it’s not really that close.... and I think Acuna is awesome.
WAR also factors in position. (To keep it simple) For example a first baseman who hits 35 HRs and has a .900 OPS may not have an extremely high WAR where as a 2nd baseman with those numbers probably will.
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