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Bottom line is there is no better baseball player than Mike trout

DingerzForDaze said:
Actually, that's what WAR reflects. WAR = Wins Above Replacement. How many wins a player contributes over some baseline of a fairly easily replaced player (to simplify). I get it. I grew up in the era where folks still thought batting average, runs, HRs and RBIs were the end all, be all of statistics. I also get the joy of watching a player who just seems to do things well, or spectacularly ... or passes the eye test. But the advanced analysis has a tremendous amount of value. It IS much better than looking at the "Triple Crown "categories or using the "eye test" to judge a guy. The more advanced analysts even poo-poo WAR, but it's the most comprehensive of the most digestible new-age analytics. A team full of Trout-level performers would absolutely destroy a team full of Acuna-level performers. WAR accurately reflects this reality.
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Does WAR factor in clutch hits or clubhouse leadership? Or a game saving catch vs. a catch when he's down by 5 runs?
 
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The Spin Meister said:
Nobody liked Cobb, even his teammates. Seems he had a nasty temper;

Cobb, during his career, was involved in numerous other fights, both on and off the field, and several profanity-laced shouting matches. For example, Cobb and umpire Billy Evans arranged to settle their in-game differences through fisticuffs under the grandstand after the game. Members of both teams were spectators, and broke up the scuffle after Cobb had knocked Evans down, pinned him and began choking him.

On May 15, 1912, Cobb assaulted a heckler, Claude Lucker (often misspelled as Lueker), in the stands in New York's Hilltop Park where his Tigers were playing the Highlanders. Lucker and Cobb had traded insults with each other through the first couple of innings. Cobb at one point went to the Highlander dugout to look for the Highlander's owner to try to have Lucker ejected from the game, but his search was in vain.[65] The situation finally climaxed when Lucker allegedly called Cobb a "half-******".[66] Cobb, in his discussion of the incident in the Holmes biography,[67] avoided such explicit words but alluded to Lucker's epithet by saying he was "reflecting on my mother's color and morals". He went on to state that he warned Highlander manager Harry Wolverton that if something wasn't done about that man, there would be trouble. No action was taken. At the end of the sixth inning, after being challenged by teammates Sam Crawford and Jim Delahanty to do something about it, Cobb climbed into the stands and attacked Lucker, who it turned out was handicapped (he had lost all of one hand and three fingers on his other hand in an industrial accident). When onlookers shouted at him to stop because the man had no hands, he reportedly retorted, "I don't care if he got no feet!"[68] Though extremely rare in the 21st century, attacking fans was not so unusual an activity in the early years of baseball. Other notable baseball stars who assaulted heckling fans include Babe Ruth, Cy Young, Rube Waddell, Kid Gleason, Sherry Magee, and Fred Clarke.[69]
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Cobb's father was suspicious that his wife was cheating on him. One day, he left for work but came back home and tried to catch her by climbing into their bedroom window. Mrs. Cobb, hearing a noise at the window, thought someone was breaking into the house and without hesitation, grabbed a shotgun and blew the "intruders" head off.
 
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There are a lot of great baseball players listed here and I give everyone's opinion their due but I haven't heard a little Italian kid from San Francisco mentioned. Went by the name of DiMaggio.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dimagjo01.shtml

People talk about his 56 game hitting streak which may never be broken, but to me the amazing stat about him is that in 1736 games covering 7672 plate appearances over 13 seasons, he only struck out 369 times. That's 2 seasons for some hitters today.
 
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How were the Phillies not all over Trout and do anything possible to get him? Kid grew up in their backyard.
 
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...DiMaggio was mentioned in my list along with Williams, Musial, Mays and Clemente...
... the DiMaggio brothers - Joe, Vince and Dom - are probably one of the top brother groups to ever play the game...
...as a teenager working at Forbes Field in the forties I also had the privilege of several conversations with Honus Wagner and Pie Traynor - who were sort of honorary coaches in their later days... ;)
 
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It's kind of a shame that Trout is with a team that might never sniff the post-season, at least for a long time. He deserves a bigger stage.
 
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PearlSUJam said:
Does WAR factor in clutch hits or clubhouse leadership? Or a game saving catch vs. a catch when he's down by 5 runs?
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:rolleyes:

So what exactly is “clutch”? Men on base? Men in RISP? Men in RISP with 2 out? What exactly?
 
Connorpozlee said:
What is the belief on when Bonds began using PEDs? He had some damn good years in Pittsburgh but was not a consideration for one of the best players of all time until San Fran. I saw somebody over the summer (I think was that moron Wingo) state that Bonds was a top 10 outfielder off all time just with what he did in Pittsburgh. He later doubled down and said he was top 5. His stats do not back that up.
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The general consensus is he started using in 1999. The previous year was the McGwire/Sosa record chase. Bonds also missed nearly two months with an injury in early 1999 and that may also motivated him to try steroids. Bonds had been putting up pretty consistent numbers from 1990-1998. But, after returning from his injury in 1999, he began hitting homers at the highest rate of his career and then he stats completely exploded over the next two years cumulating in him setting the HR record in 2001. He then continued the insane pace for three more years.
 
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wbcincy said:
Not sure if you put much (or any) stock in advanced metrics, but Trout has a 3.7 career dWAR compared with Griffey's 2.2. Mantle's advanced defensive metrics are awful, with a -9.6. Mays of course was otherworldly, with an 18.2.
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What baffles me about WAR is according to it, Bert Byleven was a significantly better pitcher than Nolan Ryan. I heard the reason is that Ryan pitches in more pitcher friendly parks.
 
RussianEagle said:
What baffles me about WAR is according to it, Bert Byleven was a significantly better pitcher than Nolan Ryan. I heard the reason is that Ryan pitches in more pitcher friendly parks.
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I wouldn’t say significantly when you factor in that both had over 19 seasons. But their overall numbers are pretty similar and yes Ryan pitched for 7/8 years in the Astrodome. I don’t think that anyone would say at their best that Bert was better than Nolan. But over the course of 500+ starts. They are what they are .....
 
PSUcup1 said:
:rolleyes:

So what exactly is “clutch”? Men on base? Men in RISP? Men in RISP with 2 out? What exactly?
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I have no problem agreeing Trout is the best player in baseball today. But, how has many winning seasons have the Angels had while he has been there? What are his playoff numbers? WAR can't measure how a guy performs under stressful situations on both offense and defense in September/October and that's what defines the greats of the game. You can't measure that.
 
Lion8286 said:
Second year in MLB and you're saying he's the best ever?? lmao
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I wasn't saying best ever. Look at the title of this thread. Does it say that??? Just saying it's up for debate in who's the best right now. Acuña may have a 40/40 year, just turned 21 and deserves to be in the conversation along with Yelich, Bellinger and Trout. Do you recognize a few of these names? LMAO

 
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Do you guys think much separates Dave Winfield from Trout? D. Winfield nearly had a .300 batting average, 450+ HR and was a dam good outfielder with a cannon for an arm. His only World Series win was with the Blue Jays.
 
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PSUcup1 said:
I wouldn’t say significantly when you factor in that both had over 19 seasons. But their overall numbers are pretty similar and yes Ryan pitched for 7/8 years in the Astrodome. I don’t think that anyone would say at their best that Bert was better than Nolan. But over the course of 500+ starts. They are what they are .....
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Didn’t Bert pitch in the Metrodome? That was fairly deadball too.
 
RU31trap said:
Do you guys think much separates Dave Winfield from Trout? D. Winfield nearly had a .300 batting average, 450+ HR and was a dam good outfielder with a cannon for an arm. His only World Series win was with the Blue Jays.
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Trout never killed a seagull
 
PearlSUJam said:
I have no problem agreeing Trout is the best player in baseball today. But, how has many winning seasons have the Angels had while he has been there? What are his playoff numbers? WAR can't measure how a guy performs under stressful situations on both offense and defense in September/October and that's what defines the greats of the game. You can't measure that.
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He's never going to put up a 1300 OPS like Ruth or Bonds have. Some of Trouts value is that he also plays CF which is one of the two premier positions. His WAR is inflated because of the difficulty of the position.
 
DingerzForDaze said:
I get the romanticism and legend of the older generations of baseball players (to this day, although I'm not a Dodgers fan, and never got to watch him pitch live, Sandy Koufax is, by far, my favorite baseball player ... and anyone who tells me he wasn't the greatest can stick it, no matter the numbers), but that shot off Stobbs was the alleged 565 ft HR, and the the subsequent analysis of that HR's distance, and the tape measure shots since, would disagree with your assessment. Still one of the all-time greats, of course.
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Well, neither of us saw that homer, and there is no video of it, but eyewitnesses report that it was still climbing when it hit the facade. Mantle was REALLY strong and REALLY fast. Too bad he effed himself up by stepping in that sprinkler well in the Yankee Stadium outfield, and then compounding it by drinking so damn much. His career numbers could have been a LOT better.. I agree with you about Koufax, by the way.
 
TheGLOV said:
Roberto Clemente > Trout
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Don't go there, Glov. It is far too early in Trout's career to make that kind of comparison. Trout is a better power hitter than Clemente and Clemente had a better arm from the outfield, but when you compare them, you are almost necessarily talking about career stats, and Trout has a ways to go..
 
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LafayetteBear said:
Don't go there, Glov. It is far too early in Trout's career to make that kind of comparison. Trout is a better power hitter than Clemente and Clemente had a better arm from the outfield, but when you compare them, you are almost necessarily talking about career stats, and Trout has a ways to go..
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Oh yes you must go there.

Clemente's stats are lifetime.

Trout's are recent but climbing.

One bad injury and Trout is out of the comparison picture.

I understand your feelings. I do sir.

The didn't call Roberto the "GREAT ONE" for nothing.
 
This is Trouts 8th full season at 27 years old, and he's already a lock for the HOF. He just passed Jeter in career WAR recently.
 
TheGLOV said:
Roberto Clemente > Trout
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Clemente was 28 before he had a single season that was better than Trout's WORST season. In his career, Clemente had only 3 seasons where he posted a 7.0 WAR or higher (7.0, 7.1, 7.7). Trout has had one season with a WAR below 7.0 ... an injured shortened season with a 6.9 WAR. All his other seasons were 8.3 WAR or higher (often comfortably higher). Clemente had 80.6 cumulative WAR over his 18 year career. Trout already has 73.3 WAR in 8+ seasons.

Trout is already 47th in career WAR among positional players, after only 8+ seasons.

Trout is redonkulous.

If he were able to maintain this level of production (a HUGE if, of course), over the next 8 years, he'd be 5th all-time in WAR, behind Ruth, Bonds, May and Cobb ... and he'd have substantially fewer plate appearances than any of those guys ... except for Ruth (Trout would have only slightly lower in PAs than Ruth), who had a career 168.4 WAR (Trout would have 146.6).

Which means Ruth is beyond redonkulous.
 
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