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Breaking from Pennlive Curley and Shultz plead guilty.

I said it months ago, this was the smart move.

Take the plea deal and move on with life C/S. Put this crap behind you. The jury pool is poisoned and the comments by the jury in the MM whistle blower case should serve as a cautionary tale to anyone that wants to challenge the false narrative.

Graham's story about coming back from Europe and supposedly not digging deeper into what had been reported because he trusted the "boy scouts" has always smelled fishy and quite frankly is not believable to the average person - most particularly one sitting on a jury. Graham was anal about needing to be informed about everything that went on at PSU and there is no way he wasn't deeply aware of the details
 
I said it months ago, this was the smart move.

Take the plea deal and move on with life C/S. Put this crap behind you. The jury pool is poisoned and the comments by the jury in the MM whistle blower case should serve as a cautionary tale to anyone that wants to challenge the false narrative.

Graham's story about coming back from Europe and supposedly not digging deeper into what had been reported because he trusted the "boy scouts" has always smelled fishy and quite frankly is not believable to the average person - most particularly one sitting on a jury. Graham was anal about needing to be informed about everything that went on at PSU and there is no way he wasn't deeply aware of the details

There was no plea deal. From the article:

"They each pleaded guilty to one misdemeanor count that carries a maximum possible penalty of a $10,000 fine and five years in prison. The judge said there was no agreement on the sentence they will received.

"There is no provision of the agreement that would limit my ability to impose sentence as I see fit," Boccabella said."
 
first no plea deal. they are confident in their case. they can't wait to speak.

now all of the excuses flying .................

when Tim and Gary testify next week I will be around to hear all of those excuses about how it can't be true....... they are only lying to avoid jail time.

misinformed wishful thinking can only last so long.......................

Don't agree. The plea is to a misdemeanor and is really minimal. It is not a felony deal. The state may well have pressed this case for several more years. C & S may well have taken it to get out from under the pressure they've been under for 6+ years now. They aren't young men and need to get on with what is left of their lives. Don't forget the prosecution has gotten next to nothing out of tens of millions of dollars (a freakin misdemeanor? its like a traffic ticket).

We'll see what happens with Spanier.
 
You make solid points, but this is tinfoil hat land, where all victims are liars and Ziggy is the truth....

Ziegler does not believe all victims were liars. He believes several were manipulated into believing they were abused using "repressed memory theory".

I find it very interesting that most of these victims remained friends with Sandusky until well into adulthood, despite the fact that none were gay. I understand that someone molested as a boy will be afraid to admit it to others, but to remain friends with your molester even after you had ample opportunity to get him out of your life seems absurd.
 
Hold on a second...I was also informed that if they were guilty, they were "going to prison", since Kathleen Kane was also sentenced to prison.

Not so? LMAO.
 
Ziegler does not believe all victims were liars. He believes several were manipulated into believing they were abused using "repressed memory theory".

I find it very interesting that most of these victims remained friends with Sandusky until well into adulthood, despite the fact that none were gay. I understand that someone molested as a boy will be afraid to admit it to others, but to remain friends with your molester even after you had ample opportunity to get him out of your life seems absurd.

Unreal.

48 counts of child molestation and freaks like you are on here defending him while he rots away in P.C. at Greene county.
 
Ahhhh the conspiracy excuse already....

WTF are you talking about? Are you seriously trying to suggest that the PA Court System (that had judges and prosecutors chummy enough with one another to be sharing racist misogynistic porn emails) is some bastion of judicial integrity? Many on this board, including myself, have said they expected CSS to go to trial but wouldn't be shocked if they plead out to a lower charge in order to avoid the PA kanagroo courts and the BIASED jury pool (the OAG would have incentive to reach a deal as well to avoid their failures re: oversight of TSM getting exposed).

Spanier hasn't reached any deal yet that I know of so we will see how this plays out in court re: his case (which I think is the weakest of the three).

This isn't excuse making at all. This is something we didn't expect but knew could happen at any time during the absurd 5+ years these guys have been strung along.
 
Hold on a second...I was also informed that if they were guilty, they were "going to prison", since Kathleen Kane was also sentenced to prison.

Not so? LMAO.

Sentencing hasn't happened yet:
"...there was no agreement on the sentence they will received.

"There is no provision of the agreement that would limit my ability to impose sentence as I see fit," Boccabella said."
 
"There is no provision of the agreement that would limit my ability to impose sentence as I see fit," Boccabella said."There is no provision of the agreement that would limit my ability to impose sentence as I see fit," Boccabella said.

I found this statement rather odd- and kind of prosecutorial, coming from a judge.
 
Hold on a second...I was also informed that if they were guilty, they were "going to prison", since Kathleen Kane was also sentenced to prison.

Not so? LMAO.
Kane is appealing her verdict and hasn't been sentenced yet. The trial judge for Curley and Schultz could very well decide to sentence them to prison - the maximum sentence is 5 years, and there was apparently no agreement as to sentence length. It's all up to the discretion of the judge.
 
You must be happy Evan.

And the "angry" posts weren't because people felt the University had NO responsibility. They were and are directed at the idea that the University and everyone associated with the University (i.e., all of us) placed the value of winning football games over the welfare of children being raped. Of course, you know that, but to admit it would require a least an ounce of intellectual honesty, something of which you are totally void.
I never once said that winning football games had anything to do with this, and look at the response to my posts. Many here dug in.
 
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Explain how excusing Baldwin's actions here aren't a "conspiracy". Laws are just ignored when convenient.



Former Pa. attorney general: Tim Curley, Gary Schultz case a ‘miscarriage of justice’

By Mike Dawson - mdawson@centredaily.com

A former Pennsylvania prosecutor thinks charges against ex-Penn State administrators Tim Curley and Gary Schultz were a “miscarriage of justice” resulting from the disputed role of in-house university lawyer Cynthia Baldwin.

Walter Cohen, who was acting attorney general in 1995 and a first deputy attorney general from 1989 to 1995, offered a scathing review for the defense lawyers of Curley and Schultz, who wanted to have Cohen testify as an expert witness at a hearing in December. The review, in a signed affidavit, was filed in Dauphin County Court under seal, and it was just unsealed by the judge last week.

Cohen didn’t mince words in his review, saying prosecutors, the judge presiding over the grand jury and Baldwin herself failed Curley and Schultz. He said if it weren’t for those failures, the two wouldn’t have been charged in the first place.

Cohen arrived at his opinion after reviewing a number of documents in the case, such as the grand jury presentments, transcripts, and letters between Baldwin’s lawyer and the lawyers for Curley and Schultz.

“Mr. Schultz and Mr. Curley suffered the complete deprivation of their rights to counsel,” Cohen wrote. “In fact, the harm to them was even worse than if they had no counsel at all. They believed they had an attorney who would protect their interests.

“The result here was a miscarriage of justice that improperly led to criminal charges being placed against two witnesses whose rights were violated.”

According to grand jury transcripts and arguments made by the two men’s lawyers throughout the case, Curley and Schultz believed Baldwin was representing them when they appeared to testify to the grand jury investigating Jerry Sandusky in January 2011.

But the men apparently became targets during their testimonies, and when Sandusky was indicted months later in November 2011, Curley and Schultz were charged with perjury and failure to report abuse properly.

The defense lawyers have asked for the criminal case against their clients to be dismissed because they say Baldwin first violated grand jury secrecy by being present for their testimonies. The defense lawyers charge that Baldwin later violated attorney-client privilege when she testified against them to the grand jury in October 2012.

Baldwin’s lawyer, Charles De Monaco, has said very little publicly, but he has defended Baldwin, a former state Supreme Court justice and former university trustee.

“The suggestion by anyone that Ms. Baldwin did not fulfill her ethical and professional duties to the Pennsylvania State University and its agents and administrators, or testified untruthfully, is untrue,” De Monaco said in December when the issue flared up again after a court hearing.

Here’s how Cohen sees the issues pertaining to Baldwin’s representation:

Baldwin prepped Curley and Schultz ahead of their grand jury appearances, and owed them “loyalty, confidentiality and competent representation.” But Baldwin had a conflict of interest in representing both of them, didn’t get a waiver of the conflict of interest and did not represent them adequately during their grand jury appearances.

The judge supervising the grand jury, Barry Feudale, believed Baldwin was the attorney for Curley and Schultz, but he and the prosecutor in charge should have challenged the joint representation of the two men.

Further, Cohen said, if Baldwin was only representing Penn State, as she has maintained after her role came into question, then she had no business being in the grand jury room, as it was a violation of grand jury rules.

Cohen said he’s seen that judges and prosecutors are vigilant about grand jury secrecy and forbid lawyers who don’t represent witnesses from being in the grand jury room. He posits that Baldwin’s presence at the grand jury shows that either everyone involved believed she represented Schultz and Curley or there was “at least tacit approval” by the prosecutor and judge to overlook the law.

In addition, Cohen said, the pre-testimony interviews that prosecutors and state police had with Schultz and Curley should have been a red flag. Authorities indicated to Baldwin that an incident reported to Schultz and Curley involved the sexual assault of a young boy.

“This was a materially different story than that which Mr. Schultz and Mr. Curley were prepared to tell,” Cohen said. “Ms. Baldwin should have alerted her clients that they were at serious risk of prosecution for perjury and failure to report child abuse, based on the information she received from the prosecutors.

“However, she did nothing to act on this information, with disastrous results for her clients.”

Cohen said that Baldwin should have recognized hostility during those pre-testimony interviews, too, and should have discussed seeking immunity with Curley and Schultz.

Cohen said that the public records show that Baldwin didn’t explain to Curley and Schultz their rights against self-incrimination. If they had invoked the Fifth Amendment, the grand jury testimonies could have stopped, and they would have had more time to consider options.

Cohen also recounted a conversation he had with Feudale on Oct. 22, 2012, that led to his opinion about Curley and Schultz.

Feudale had just wrapped up a discussion with a witness to the statewide grand jury in Harrisburg who was represented by Cohen. Feudale wanted a quick word with Cohen, who he’d known for quite some time.

Feudale told Cohen he would never allow a lawyer into the grand jury room with a witness unless he was sure the lawyer represented the witness. But, because of the secrecy of grand jury proceedings, Feudale couldn’t divulge to Cohen which proceeding he meant.

Cohen figured it was about Curley and Schultz, because Cohen had made critical public comments about prosecutors bringing charges in light of Baldwin’s role.

It wasn’t until sometime later that Cohen realized the timeliness of Feudale’s chat. The day he met with Cohen, Feudale had just had a discussion with Baldwin over her offering testimony to the grand jury where she sat and listened to Curley and Schultz testify more than a year before.

Baldwin testified to the grand jury Oct. 26, 2012.

“This testimony offered by the person who the judge and both witnesses thought was their counsel just compounds the initial injustice that they suffered at the hands of the supervising judge and (the) chief deputy attorney general,” Cohen wrote.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Kane is appealing her verdict and hasn't been sentenced yet. The trial judge for Curley and Schultz could very well decide to sentence them to prison - the maximum sentence is 5 years, and there was apparently no agreement as to sentence length. It's all up to the discretion of the judge.

I was just informed on this thread that the charges are misdemeanors and they are going to get on with their life, so no, they're not going to be sent to prison.
 
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Ziegler does not believe all victims were liars. He believes several were manipulated into believing they were abused using "repressed memory theory".

I find it very interesting that most of these victims remained friends with Sandusky until well into adulthood, despite the fact that none were gay. I understand that someone molested as a boy will be afraid to admit it to others, but to remain friends with your molester even after you had ample opportunity to get him out of your life seems absurd.

Ziggy believes Sandusky is completely innocent. In order for that to be, he has to believe all victims are lying.

As for your second part, you should probably google Stockholm Syndrome.
 
Sentencing hasn't happened yet:
"...there was no agreement on the sentence they will received.

"There is no provision of the agreement that would limit my ability to impose sentence as I see fit," Boccabella said."

They are not going to prison.
 
Don't agree. The plea is to a misdemeanor and is really minimal. It is not a felony deal. The state may well have pressed this case for several more years. C & S may well have taken it to get out from under the pressure they've been under for 6+ years now. They aren't young men and need to get on with what is left of their lives. Don't forget the prosecution has gotten next to nothing out of tens of millions of dollars (a freakin misdemeanor? its like a traffic ticket).

We'll see what happens with Spanier.
Very valid points. I would also caution on the notion there was no "plea deal". The prosecution and defense can never truly force a Judge into a specific sentence. Hence the Judge's comments here. But if in fact they are going to testify against Spanier there is no way they do not have a deal in place. Their lawyers would hold out until next Monday and even into the start of the trial if they did not get some assurance the prosecution will agree to a certain request. Now, does the Judge have to go along with that? No. But they always do.
 
Ziegler does not believe all victims were liars. He believes several were manipulated into believing they were abused using "repressed memory theory".

I find it very interesting that most of these victims remained friends with Sandusky until well into adulthood, despite the fact that none were gay. I understand that someone molested as a boy will be afraid to admit it to others, but to remain friends with your molester even after you had ample opportunity to get him out of your life seems absurd.
It's very common for the victims to stay in contact with their abuser. Just google it. Is is crazy to those of us who were never abused...sure, but apparently it is not out of the norm in that world.
 
There was no plea deal. From the article:

"They each pleaded guilty to one misdemeanor count that carries a maximum possible penalty of a $10,000 fine and five years in prison. The judge said there was no agreement on the sentence they will received.

"There is no provision of the agreement that would limit my ability to impose sentence as I see fit," Boccabella said."
Uh.....they "plead" down from multiple Felonies to one Misdemeanor.......you dolt.
 
I was just informed on this thread that the charges are misdemeanors and they are going to get on with their life, so no, they're not going to be sent to prison.
TBD.

"There is no provision of the agreement that would limit my ability to impose sentence as I see fit," Boccabella said."
 
I was just informed on this thread that the charges are misdemeanors and they are going to get on with their life, so no, they're not going to be sent to prison.

Misdemeanor doesn't mean no jail time:

"They each pleaded guilty to one misdemeanor count that carries a maximum possible penalty of a $10,000 fine and five years in prison."

It will be interesting to see what Judge Boccabella does.
 
On April 1, 2011, I received a personal message from Steve Sloane on Facebook. It was unsolicted. At the time I was writing a blog on Ray Gricar at another paper.



In the message, Sloane indicated that he was involved in the 1998 case with Gricar. He stated that it "RG's decision NOT to prosecute if he received help with the problem... "



After the Freeh Report came out, I became worried that the investigators did not know of this. I got in contract with the investigators and turned this information over to them in August 2012.
 
first no plea deal. they are confident in their case. they can't wait to speak.

now all of the excuses flying .................

when Tim and Gary testify next week I will be around to hear all of those excuses about how it can't be true....... they are only lying to avoid jail time.

misinformed wishful thinking can only last so long.......................
What's your excuse for not calling the police that Saturday morning?
 
They're insane to plead without a plea deal. I'm guessing that's just the judge posturing. Or, they have to testify against Spanier to get a soft sentence.
 
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I'm pretty much done with all of this. We're never going to get the truth. We're never going to get our honor back. We're always going to be a pariah. At least for my lifetime.

And the old-boys system will continue to run and ruin the university and alumni association we once loved.
 
I never once said that winning football games had anything to do with this, and look at the response to my posts. Many here dug in.

You have been one of the loudest voices that have tried to conflate the idea of defending ourselves against the claim of football > kids with saying no one at the University did anything wrong. Most of us are honest enough to admit that we didn't and still don't know what people connected to PSU did or didn't do. So we aren't forceful in our claim that PSU did nothing wrong, because we really don't know. But, we will forcefully say that we, as fans of Penn State, do not and did not value winning football games at the expense of kids being abused. You and your ilk have tried to claim defense of the latter is the same as defense of the former. So you see this as a giant win. Good for you.
 
How many thousands of angry posts have been placed on this board since November 2011 claiming that the University and its leadership had no culpability in Sandusky's abuses? I still need to be convinced of a deliberate conspiracy of silence, but was the University negligent? Unfortunately, hell yes.
Ok, but negligence and criminality are two different things.
 
This is all BS. Curley and Schultz aren't serving any jail time. That is a 1000% lock. I'm taking all bets to the contrary. The OAG wanted a guilty plea to save face. They got it in exchange for no jail time. They are saying otherwise right now (at least this dubious news report is), but they aren't serving any time.
 
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This is all BS. Curley and Schultz aren't serving any jail time. That is a 1000% lock. I'm taking all bets to the contrary. The OAG wanted a guilty plea to save face. They got it in exchange for no jail time. They are saying otherwise right now (at least this dubious news report is), but they aren't serving any time.

Nice theory ? What are your thoughts on lizard people ?
 
What's your excuse for not calling the police that Saturday morning?

I knew Mike was meeting with Joe and he would handle correctly (which he did). If I would have known that Tim and Gary were going to cover it up it seems in hindsight I should have called the police.

It seems that harmon was informed that same weekend so maybe calling the police wouldn't have changed things. Sandusky ended up in jail where he belongs and maybe any other events change that doesn't happen.
 
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I'm pretty much done with all of this. We're never going to get the truth. We're never going to get our honor back. We're always going to be a pariah. At least for my lifetime.

And the old-boys system will continue to run and ruin the university and alumni association we once loved.
Wasn't it the old boys system running the University back when you loved it? I'm not trying to be an ass, but I just don't understand what you are saying.
 
I'm pretty much done with all of this. We're never going to get the truth. We're never going to get our honor back. We're always going to be a pariah. At least for my lifetime.

And the old-boys system will continue to run and ruin the university and alumni association we once loved.

Do you think Curley will open up about discussion he had with Paterno, prior to deciding only to contact the 2nd mile regarding the incident?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but usually you have to have some leverage to get something out of the plea deal. They also waited a long time to strike up this deal and what was on the table a few years back maybe left the table? Again, I don't know, but a week before an now this. Apparently the state had a bit more than the talking heads here thought I imagine, myself included.


The big issue was the legal fees, they weren't paying them . This deal would have been cut years ago otherwise.
 
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