Cael stating they have other people they are considering to start at 141 besides Nick Lee is 100% pure Coach Speak. Right?
Coach Speak?
- Thread starter NittanyChris
- Start date
Well yeah. Unless there is another transfer coming, or if Cortez is hoping around in a boot for decoration.
No coach speak at all. They could keep Lee's shirt on until they are absolutely convinced that Cortez will not be able to wrestle in March and they are convinced that Lee is a legitimate threat to be an All-American. It makes no sense to burn Lee's redshirt if they project him to round of 12 at NCAA's.
Your belief is that they project Nick Lee to no better than round of 12?
Just checking.
I don't think anybody believes Nick's ceiling is round of 12. However, as of now neither is he a definitive top 6. Fairly vicious weight depth wise.
Now me. I think he is top 6, probably top 4 and definitely ahead of McKenna.
Didn't he say something about Luke Gardner making the cut from 149?
I would probably put Lee's realistic ceiling around 6/7 right now. Not that he couldn't beat someone higher, but everyone at the top of that weight (except Yianni, who's already beaten Nick) has a boatload of experience to go with his significant skill. Could be wrong though, and I hope he has the chance to prove me wrong, starting on Feb 3!
I would probably put Lee's realistic ceiling around 6/7 right now. Not that he couldn't beat someone higher, but everyone at the top of that weight (except Yianni, who's already beaten Nick) has a boatload of experience to go with his significant skill. Could be wrong though, and I hope he has the chance to prove me wrong, starting on Feb 3!
These are tough decisions, no doubt. It might be made easier if the Cortez injury places his season in jeopardy, but that only gets Nick's foot in the door.
I love Nick's fearless wrestling, almost Nolf-like motor, and attack style. He will be a star before it's all over. This year, right now, his floor-to-ceiling looks to me to be exactly between where Lyons and nit put them above, though I'll argue there's no evidence that suggests, beyond bravado, that he is "probably top 4 and definitely ahead of McKenna".
141 has Meredith, Jack, Eierman, Diakomihalis, and Heil at the top, by my thinking, and I'll add McKenna too. All will be favorites to AA, leaving the Zacharl's, Alber's, Red's, Smith's, Thorn's, Karem's of the world to fight for 2 AA spots. This is the list young Nick Lee should be added to, imo.
As an optimist, he most definitely has the tools (mindset, ability, attitude) to AA, and I believe he can...but it won't be easy. And remember, Nick has Bonus Point potential, so there's that too.
Coaches need to weigh the goals of the individual versus those of the team. If having Nick Lee in the lineup gives you a better chance to win a team title he should be on the mat. I don't think they are doing him a disservice if he competes but falls short of AA Status. If his efforts aid in winning a title, then it was worth it IMO.
There is no way to truly know how someone will compete when they are on the biggest stage. For all we know Nick could wrestle out of his mind and make the Semis or Finals. Even though he's a little sloppy at times, it is clear that the talent to succeed at a high level is there. Could he benefit from a redshirt? Probably, but as a fan I say put him out there and tell him to let it fly.
I have no idea where the coaches project Nick Lee. There is always the possibility that he wrestles this weekend. There is also the possibility that the coaches want Lee to wrestle more opens to get more mat time too.
I do believe the his shirt stays on until they are convinced that Lee is a probable high scorer at nationals. They do not have to make that decision at this time.
if they aren't convinced now, what could convince them in the few weeks? Beating Zain?
It's just a little gamesmanship on Cael's part. I'd be shocked if Lee didn't get the call Friday.
It's just a little gamesmanship on Cael's part. I'd be shocked if Lee didn't get the call Friday.
Agree with you, anticipated tight race with Ohio State, not sure how they can justify red shirting Lee, even if Cortez was healthy. Lee is clearly the better wrestler and scorer.
NLee is a better choice than Luke G and to most over a healthy cortez. So Luke is who he is and cortez is banged up, so it only makes sense that Nick go. That being said, I could see a scenario where luke went these next 4 duals (UM, MSU, PU & UoM) because hes been in the system and we really dont need him to win for the team to win these matches. Let Lee get some tourneys in and then let him breakout against the goofs.
Lets cortez get healthier and you make the decision with the most data possible. Even if the data supports the thoughts now.
Maybe the staff is on the KYPSW contest and likes to keep us guessing
Lets cortez get healthier and you make the decision with the most data possible. Even if the data supports the thoughts now.
Maybe the staff is on the KYPSW contest and likes to keep us guessing
Saying he is ahead of McKenna is saying a lot---I don't disagree --If Lee can stay off bottom with McKenna yes I think he beats him on his feet, but if Nick can get out--may be trouble!
The only factor in favor of waiting, in my opinion, is the remote possibility that half the tOSU starters become unavailable to wrestle in the NCAAs, for some reason, in which case Lee's points, with high likelihood, won't be needed. Other than that, we need every point, and pulling the shirt earlier gets Lee better sooner.
The counter argument would be: get him more conference matches to improve his B10 and NCAA seeds, and facing backups in an open won't help his strength of schedule.NLee is a better choice than Luke G and to most over a healthy cortez. So Luke is who he is and cortez is banged up, so it only makes sense that Nick go. That being said, I could see a scenario where luke went these next 4 duals (UM, MSU, PU & UoM) because hes been in the system and we really dont need him to win for the team to win these matches. Let Lee get some tourneys in and then let him breakout against the goofs.
Lets cortez get healthier and you make the decision with the most data possible. Even if the data supports the thoughts now.
Maybe the staff is on the KYPSW contest and likes to keep us guessing
Probably not a ton of separation but some conference quarters opponents are at least somewhat better draws than others.
Your right, but why bring down Luke if the decision is that simple. Unless, the early thoughts on Cortez are good enough that luke is temporary fill in for him.
Remember that time Mark Hall was listed on the match notes for Iowa. Me either.
I'm sort of worried about Cortez coming back this year. To my eyes, he didn't look 100% physically this year before the ankle. I think it would be better to shut him down and let him get fully healthy. He would almost certainly get an extra year from the NCAA if he wanted it at this point.
What is a high scorer? A R12 guy like Lee is worth around 4 points. A 6th place AA is worth around 10 points. Both may be meaningful come March. I project Cortez as 1-2 points, so it may be worth keeping the RS if you don't think you'll need the extra points.
Guessing to maintain a backup plan in case Lee gets hurt.
Without looking at all the match results, next best 141 option is likely Blumer, who's probably less ready at this stage of his career than Gardner.
In any case, Cael's quote about Cortez's injury (better than we thought he would be) is pretty much straight out of the 3 inch playbook, pretty sure he said the same thing about Cruiseliner Nick, the Altons, Nevills, etc.
Even if Cortez were 100% today, it appears Nick Lee has earned his shot if he and his family wants it.
#freethelee
#freethelee
The fact that Sanderson would say this without naming the "other people" makes it coach speak, almost by definition.
I can't see how they don't pull Lee's shirt. They need him in March and he needs matches now to be ready to go at a high level in the post season. Same situation as Hall last year. If he doesn't start this Friday, I don't know what to think.
Except that he mentioned several people on the coaches show. That doesn't mean it is not coach speak, just that he DID mention names.
I'm certainly not an advocate of the "trust the coaches" line of thinking as a steadfast rule, but when your coaches are Cael,Cody,Casey, and Jake it seems like a logical thought. Nick Lee has been wrestling in front of these coaches for around 15 months and they have probably gained a pretty clear understanding of his potential this year and career wise. Cael hates to lose, so probably need not worry he will err on the side of caution for no good reason. Nick Lee will compete when it is best for Nick Lee and PSU.
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