Franklin vs Cael
- Thread starter Cali_Nittany
- Start date
Yeah, when the football program is on par with the rest of college football, get back to me. Jesus, it's bad enough to see this bullsh&t on the football threads, must it be here in the wrestling room as well?
Saban wishes that were true.
With Cael there's a decent probability of another national championship.
With Franklin there isn't a snowball's chance in hell.
With Franklin there isn't a snowball's chance in hell.
Considering the mods buried your post inside an existing thread, I’d say they agreed that your original post was needless cluttering of the wrestling board.
And they were right to do so. Had I remembered it, I'd have put it there in the first place.
Gamma's going to gamma.
Name a coach better than Franklin who would take the psu job.
Make sure they have a winning record vs the top 5.
Who needs a winning record? If that hypothetical coach batted ,250, it would a huge improvement.
Name one that would not, since you so sure there's nobody else.
For $8.5M a year, which is almost $2M more than the average NFL salary, we should at least mediocrity in big games, not futility.
Money doesn't talk it whispers softly and screams simultaneously. Ask David Taylor.
We would not even
We would not even be in big games with the coach you wanted. Is nebraska in the playoffs?
Name a better coach who wants the job. Only 12 in the playoffs. It is usually only the top 5 with winning records vs the top 10.
Joes first 10 years are much closer to Franklin than cael. 0 championships in his first 10 years and a losing record vs the top 10.
Well, if you don't have an answer, you can repeat yourself.
What you can't dispute is Franklin is paid lavishly and has lost every big game but one. Almost only counts in Horseshoes.
Don't bother responding-you're on ignore for inducing boredom.
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Yes.
Don't need to win more than you lose against the top 5. But even winning 25% of them, they'd have, what, 3-4 more and at least 1 playoff spot under JF. Win 1/3 and they almost certainly have multiple playoff appearances. Maybe those wins get strung together in one postseason and you actually win a title.
The marginal implications of never beating the best teams, ever, is so huge. It basically guarantees that your ceiling is well below coming close to a national title. One could argue, quite easily, it is actually better to beat the great teams and lose your 1-2 against the lesser teams because you'll get the nod in the standings (and get to Big Ten title games) and, apparently, in the CFP.
Joe's last 10 years would have yielded 2 playoff spots, in the 4 team era, had that system existed.
Looking back through Joe's career, I think one be hard-pressed to find any 10 year stretch where he wouldn't have yielded at least one spot in a 4 team playoff. 1995-2004 probably the only stretch. That would have been followed by 2 in 4 years.
Just so we are comparing apples to apples, was PSU’s reputation the same in Joe’s first 10 years versus Franklin’s? Did we have comparable facilities? Did Joe have recruiting classes ranked as high as Franklin’s? I know some of that is on Joe versus Franklin, but PSU did not have the respect it has now, that respect can be tied back to Joe’s results and how he built up the program. I would say, and some might disagree, that Franklin came into a program that was easier to recruit for than what Joe received initially. I do think Franklin is a good recruiter so I do give some credit for the class rankings to him, but not all.
You are wrong.
Pennsylvania as a state was third in producing NFL talent when joe took over. Now Pennsylvania probably is not even top 10. In the 2025 class Pennsylvania had 9 4*s and zero 5s . Georgia had 49. 4s and 5s. Pa used to be ahead of Georgia in talent.
The reputation point is flawed. I guess you forgot about Sandusky. Are you really going to say it was easier for Franklin??? That is laughable.
Back in the day the facilities were not much of an issue because nobody had great facilities so there was no advantage or disadvantage. At some point rival schools went on spending sprees which left psu in the dust. Franklin has been playing catch up.
In 1968, Joe's first undefeated season, I believe Pa. had 29 electoral votes. Now we have 19 and I think it will be 16 in 2032. You numbers hold true. The north has won 3 titles since 2000 I believe, 2 by OSU, 1 by Michigan. I think PSU has won more wrestling titles than the SEC won football titles since then .
Why is that? Best coach ever in the best area of the country for wrestling.
All fair, and I agree with all of it.
Those (OSU and UM) schools have each made at least 3 playoffs, and won at least one title, in the last decade.
One could argue that Ohio State gets better players, and that's fair (though it still isn't too much to ask to win sometimes as a slight underdog). But Michigan hasn't recruited better than Penn State. Michigan, even in a 7-5 year, got one in Columbus. It happens more than you think. Auburn has gotten Alabama twice the last decade (3 times in 12 years), and Alabama has been better than Ohio State. Each time, the Tide were either #1, or they were at least 10 spots higher in rankings, and all 3 times the Tide were Vegas favorites.
The argument isn't, "why can't Penn State win titles" (though I think that should be the discussion, I know it isn't). It's a discussion of, how can they be so close, so often, with their version of the Tide and seem to find new ways to lose for going on a decade now? Why does it seem like the team never even shows up in Ann Arbor when Michigan is any good?
Cael is in a state with the most talent at a school with the biggest budget in a sport with much less competition.
SEC does not have wrestling. Sec puts their money towards football. Sec schools have half as many sports. 100+ d1 football teams. How many legit d1 wrestling teams? Bloomsburg, clarion, and edinboro finished in the top 10 and they didn't even have the full scholly allotment. That says a lot. It is really not an equal comparison.
Can you name any coach at any school who compares to cael?
They have finished in the top ten, but not recently if my memory is correct. I'm not sure what your point is here.
Fifteen years ago, after decades of coaching, two NC's (arguably three if Tricky Dick Nixon didn't try to buy Texas votes) Joe made
$1.03 million and was the highest paid PSU employee.
I'm curious what results produce a 725% increase in compensation.
www.espn.com
$1.03 million and was the highest paid PSU employee.
I'm curious what results produce a 725% increase in compensation.
Records: JoePa is PSU's highest-paid employee
Records released Friday by the university show the 82-year-old Hall of Famer is Penn State's highest-paid employee, making more than $1.03 million last year.
I think you are wrong!
You say PA generated talent, but not all went to PSU.
Just checking the 1970 draft, because I don’t have unlimited time and that would be 4 years with Joe. First round of 26 players had two players from PA high schools and one went to PSU, the other ND. Looking through without actually keeping track seemed like a lot of TX athletes. We also had a president announce another team was NC, so we were not considered a perenial power.
And I did not forget Sandusky, but when Franklin was hired it was still considered a great coaching job, we did not have to go hat in hand asking people to consider coming to PSU, to play or coach. I am pretty sure that when Joe was hired in 1966 the head coach position at PSU was not considered one of the best jobs for coaches in the nation.
I don't think you're getting the comparison, PSU is the wrestling equivalent of SEC football but better. I believe we have won more NCAA team titles than they have football national titles since Sanderson started. Hell you can take the rest of college wrestling and we come out on top.
Joe's first 10 years were not the same as Franklin's. Joe had 3 undefeated seasons in his first 10 years and 6 seasons with 10 or more wins when teams were only playing 11 or 12 games seasons which includes a bowl game at the end. 0 championships is on the voters, not Joe.
Joe finished with 4 top 5 rankings and 4 more top 10 rankings in his first 10 years in either the AP or Coach's final polls. Throw in 1 additional #18 ranking to boot.
Rip Engle's last 3 seasons before Joe took over were 7-3, 6-4 and 5-5. In fact, Rip only won 9 games twice during his entire tenure at Penn State.
I give Franklin credit for getting the program through the worst part of the effects of the sanctions. But Joe could finish and had a reputation of being able to beat better teams when given 6 weeks to prepare for a bowl game. Franklin? Not so much.
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So...have we firmly established that James Franklin does not rank among the greatest college coaches (football or otherwise) of all time?
