Were Smith and Gable assistants before taking top jobs? I don't know, but I didn't think so. I could be wrong, there's a first time for everything. I thought I was wrong once before, but I was mistaken.
Coaching up recruits
- Thread starter ev_flores0331
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Were Smith and Gable assistants before taking top jobs? I don't know, but I didn't think so. I could be wrong, there's a first time for everything. I thought I was wrong once before, but I was mistaken.
Gable was an asst at Iowa. IDK if Smith was, but I do know it's not 1992 any more.
But it's not...kind of hard to argue that it is considering the finishes the past couple of years. You see Cael as the "best recruiter" as a backhanded compliment. It's not...at least not IMO. I see it as a necessary part of coaching in wrestling and a big reason why Cael went to PSU. Just look at the results.
Easy way to discuss this is: In Gables era he was the best you don't win 25 big tens in a row even in those days the big ten was the best conference.
So far in this era no question Cael is the greatest, record shows that can't accept it is your problem.In time both of these men will be the best thing to happen to college wrestling.
Ok another thing I didn't understand posted by Fine Material : There is no wrestler in Iowa that has been part of a national championship team. Watch and learn guys.
So u saying all the champ ships Iowa had no one from Iowa was on the team WOW and in same post u wanted us to believe that u really know so much about wrestling.
So far in this era no question Cael is the greatest, record shows that can't accept it is your problem.In time both of these men will be the best thing to happen to college wrestling.
Ok another thing I didn't understand posted by Fine Material : There is no wrestler in Iowa that has been part of a national championship team. Watch and learn guys.
So u saying all the champ ships Iowa had no one from Iowa was on the team WOW and in same post u wanted us to believe that u really know so much about wrestling.
Maybe I;m to old to read but to me doesn't say that in my opinion could be wrong. For heaven's sake everyone knows that Iowa has won it since Metcalf and team graduated maybe I read it wrong if so ok.
Cael is the best recruiter and I do not argue that. I snort at the idea he wins only because he is the best recruiter. Same exact roster, different school with different coaching staff. Different development, different outcomes. Hell, should not be that difficult of a concept to grasp.
Development of wrestlers? English and Conaway are obvious. Quentin Wright. Yes Quentin finished 6th as a true freshman and was very talented. Quentin struggled his ass off his sophomore season and was seeded 8th I think for the B1Gs and 9th at nationals. Took a beating in the Iowa dual from Gramball (sp?). Wins B1Gs and then on his way to his national title pins Grant and then revenges a dual loss to Hamlin in the finals.
Nico, tougher than nails but as a true freshman takes several lumps during the season and B1Gs. Earns several revenge victories at nationals on his way to a runner-up finish then finally earns his title last season wrestling against an extremely talented Gilman and using a situational takedown he has practiced for a year.
Molinaro this past Olympic cycle, if that isn't development I am missing something.
Talented kids do not develop elite skill sets in a vacuum, nor do they self evolve into champions.
So yeah - that thread is just another example of the Hawk core attempting to rationalize any and all of the Sanderson success by arguing your big daddy in his day was sooooo much better than our current big daddy.
I have posted in the thread because it is fun to play along, but come on you are way too bright to pretend that thread is anything more than what it truly is.
Yes, apparently I can't count. I should have looked it up as I completely forgot about 1994 and memory had them winning 3 in a row in 00s but it was actually 4 so 5 for Smith and Cael and 3 our of 85 for Brands.
www.Stassen.com
See link above for a database of college football records. If you check out the years 1966-1992, the years JoePa was head coach before we joined the BIG you will find the following winning percentages for the BIG schools and the Eastern independents (plus MD) which made up the bulk of our schedule. It becomes obvious why the Big 10 was called the Big 2 and Little 8.
PSU .784
Mich .780
OSU .743
WVU .590
Rutgers .566
Pitt .551
Cuse .548
BC .541
MSU .522
MD .510
Purdue .490
Temple .484
Iowa .480
Illinois .448
Minny .444
Indiana .418
Wisc .382
NW .226
As I was saying. Molinaro was a barely-above .500 wrestler the year before Cael came to PSU (23-19, 8th) to 33-7 (5th) to 32-3 (finals loss to Dake) to 33-0. He went from being basically an "on the feet" wrestler before Cael came to being undefeated and dominant on top. So, yes, he is a good example of coaching up.
Same with Zain. He was a great wrestler as a true freshman, but became the most dominant wrestler award winner two years later. So, again, a good example of coaching up.
Ha! I'll allow it. But only if you're a Poke fan who acknowledges that there was no official team scoring at the 1928, 1931 & 1933 NCAA Championships and, as such, Oklahoma State has only won 31 of 86 Championships
Correction on total available:
89: Years since first tourney (including the first tourney in 1928)
86: Number of tourneys held (none held during WWII 1943, 1944, 1945)
83: Number of tourneys where an official team score was kept
So the Pokes have won 31 of 83 possible titles, or 37%
Iowa has won 23 of 83, for 28%
Next up are Oklahoma & Iowa State at 7 of 83, for 8%
And PSU chasing hard at 6 of 83, for 7%
Then Minnesota who has won a lot of duals (3 tourney titles)
Then Sparty, UNI, Indiana, Sparky, Cornell Iowa & Brutus bringing it home with 1 each
For a total of 83 Team Titles out of 83 Available Team Titles
Interesting note about Iowa State: their FB page claims 8! Here's why: in the absence of Official Team Scoring, they looked to Number of Individual Champs for their claims:
1928: OkSt had 4 champs & Iowa, ISU & Northwestern (!) each had 1, so they let this one alone and only OkSt claims a team title
1931: OkSt had 4 champs and ISU, Kansas State, Lehigh & Northwestern (!!) each had 1, so they let this one alone and only OkSt claims a team title
1933: OkSt & ISU each had 3 champs, so both OkSt AND Iowa State claim this team title. If you went to tiebreakers, what would you use? All-Americans? OkSt had 4 & ISU had 3. I actually scored it out, using 1932's team scoring system and found OkSt would have earned 23 points and Iowa State would have earned 21. I'm wide open to being corrected on that, if, like my first graders are always bitching about, you 'show your thinking' (show me yours, I'll show you mine
In summary, if we actually counted all the claimed team titles through the years a national tourney was held, we'd end up with 87 claimed Team Champs out of 83 available officially scored tourneys. In 89 years. Math y'all!
Correction on total available:
89: Years since first tourney (including the first tourney in 1928)
86: Number of tourneys held (none held during WWII 1943, 1944, 1945)
83: Number of tourneys where an official team score was kept
So the Pokes have won 31 of 83 possible titles, or 37%
Iowa has won 23 of 83, for 28%
Next up are Oklahoma & Iowa State at 7 of 83, for 8%
And PSU chasing hard at 6 of 83, for 7%
Then Minnesota who has won a lot of duals (3 tourney titles)
Then Sparty, UNI, Indiana, Sparky, Cornell Iowa & Brutus bringing it home with 1 each
For a total of 83 Team Titles out of 83 Available Team Titles
Interesting note about Iowa State: their FB page claims 8! Here's why: in the absence of Official Team Scoring, they looked to Number of Individual Champs for their claims:
1928: OkSt had 4 champs & Iowa, ISU & Northwestern (!) each had 1, so they let this one alone and only OkSt claims a team title
1931: OkSt had 4 champs and ISU, Kansas State, Lehigh & Northwestern (!!) each had 1, so they let this one alone and only OkSt claims a team title
1933: OkSt & ISU each had 3 champs, so both OkSt AND Iowa State claim this team title. If you went to tiebreakers, what would you use? All-Americans? OkSt had 4 & ISU had 3. I actually scored it out, using 1932's team scoring system and found OkSt would have earned 23 points and Iowa State would have earned 21. I'm wide open to being corrected on that, if, like my first graders are always bitching about, you 'show your thinking' (show me yours, I'll show you mine
In summary, if we actually counted all the claimed team titles through the years a national tourney was held, we'd end up with 87 claimed Team Champs out of 83 available officially scored tourneys. In 89 years. Math y'all!
Hat's off to you for being a teacher. You see our kids more than we do during the week and you get paid nowhere near what you earn. Much appreciated.
Why, did I put the emPHASis on the wrong sylLABle? I dunno, I guess just as a reminder of past glory. But you made me look it up...looks like NW has 10 top-ten finishes through the years--and they cover quite some disparate decades: 20's, 30's, 60's, 80's, 90's, 00's, Aughtteens. 7 Champ placements and 22 AA placements.
Having the best room in the country will do wonders even for great wrestlers !!!! Add in all the great NLWC guys....WOW !!!!
Ha, I love it! I'm in total agreement with you about Teachers and the wonderful service they provide. Both my parents were teachers. But I am not. I do provide a fair bit of adult education & training in my IT consultancy, but I'll pass on your appreciation to the real heros.
I realize now how it read, but the plural in 'my first graders' represents my twin boys lol!
You're IT?? Now I feel dirty for having complimented you...
LOL
Having two(!) first-graders automatically qualifies you for sainthood.
This. Thanks Jefe. I think Minnhawkeye was drunk posting. My grammar is clear, and my facts are correct. His spelling grammar, spelling, and punctuation were falling apart for a few posts there.
I have to give credit where credit is due-you guys (Roar, Jtothemfp, etc.) are some of the best researchers in the wrestling world.
In general, would say that what was the Big 8 was the best conference for quite a long time.
Iowa State, OK St, OK and others like Mizzou and perhaps Neb are a few who had long wrestling traditions with very good programs.
Without looking at the national finishes, it would not surprise to see Iowa dominating a lower tier Big Ten, while also dominating nationally.
Updates and stat replies are welcome.
Iowa certainly has had a lot of great people who have come thru there. Dan Gable was, as everyone knows a master. He was also good at knowing how to turn that fight or flight switch OFF when appropriate. I knew him as an intense person, but respected him as a gentleman too. This I see as one of the faults in today's program. Do you bump into someone at a tournament and then try to escalate the situation? Do you scream at referees who are trying to do the best job they possibly can on a regular basis? Does the program keep Paul Bunyan like figures from yesteryear around who many despise?
I think most of the very best recruits in the country, and their parents, are looking for a more evolved program as their ideal. Now if only Cael could coach...
I think most of the very best recruits in the country, and their parents, are looking for a more evolved program as their ideal. Now if only Cael could coach...
