Do we know yet that none of the assault accusations were reported to the police?
Collegian article re: alleged Starocci misconduct
- Thread starter PSU210
- Start date
Do we know yet that none of the assault accusations were reported to the police?
Yes, I agree. Attorneys use a lot of dirty tactics to try to impugn witnesses. I'm saying it's in bad faith and I was showing how it's a bad argument.
Some of the older guys posting here might remember the hit job that Woodward and Bernstein did on Nixon back in the Watergate era. After that happened, every journalism major had dreams of becoming an investigative reporter and scoring a big win by digging up dirt on well known public figures and organizations. The tone of the Collegian article makes me wonder if the author is attempting to accomplish the same.
I said I equally don’t want my kid accused falsely. You’re not going to take steps to corner with “wow geez if you think they’re equal crimes you do you” stuff to put me on defensive.
Do you think attorneys should not defend clients?
You know that false accusations exist, right?
Retired attorney here. It’s not a dirty trick. It’s your job as a defense attorney. It may not be pretty, and it may not seem fair to the victim, but if that’s all you’ve got you’re obligated to go there.
To echo Bordeaux: back when I was coaching varsity with my stepdad I had heard rumblings of Carter having been accused of bullying while at Prep. He and a teammate supposedly bullied an underclassman to the point where the kid wound up quitting the sport all together. The kid who was allegedly bullied was a good wrestler too, multiple time PJW state qualifier and place winner. I never heard much else about it so I chalked it up to hearsay.
If these allegations prove true, I know there will be a lot of local youth wrestlers and parents who will be heartbroken because so many of them look up to him. Carter ran a clinic nearby a few years ago and several of my wrestlers were falling over themselves trying to get in the door because they were so excited.
The SA stuff is troubling to say the least. I’ve known many women who have their own SA stories and it’s sad that they had to endure that type of trauma. Even if it amounts to nothing, that specter will be following him for the rest of his life.
If these allegations prove true, I know there will be a lot of local youth wrestlers and parents who will be heartbroken because so many of them look up to him. Carter ran a clinic nearby a few years ago and several of my wrestlers were falling over themselves trying to get in the door because they were so excited.
The SA stuff is troubling to say the least. I’ve known many women who have their own SA stories and it’s sad that they had to endure that type of trauma. Even if it amounts to nothing, that specter will be following him for the rest of his life.
Nothing I said would imply attorneys should not defend clients.
No, we do not. Why I fully expect the university to address the situation very soon. They have to at this point. However, if there had been any charges brought forth, they'd be public information.
If your desire not to have them falsely accused equals your desire for them not to be sexually assaulted, is that not associating them equally? This is not an attempt to corner, just saying that you said in your statement that you don't want your kid to be falsely accused, at the same level you don't want them to be sexually assaulted, which in my opinion is the same as saying you don't want your kids to be falsely accused of murder, at the same level you don't want them to be murdered. Doesn't make much sense to me
Therein lies the issue. We should put an emphasis on finding the truth vs winning a court case. Inherent issue in every judicial system. It's simply part of it.
Just don’t impugn people with dirty tactics like pointing out that behaviors don’t match feelings of being unsafe.
Man this sucks, I had posted a thread that was removed because I asked if there might be something more to Beau’s post while back. Apparently there is/was
This not the way I wanted to the day to start!
This not the way I wanted to the day to start!
I agree with you.
I also assume that if there’s enough smoke to destroy livelihoods, there’s enough to bring charges. Because you walk a thin line otherwise that gives a lot of leeway to accuse people of very serious things that can destroy their lives.
Author of article—while I generally agree that the Collegian can be bad, I think this one must’ve been pretty carefully vetted by council etc.:
Not every judicial system. The US uses an adversarial system where it is winning vs. losing, other countries use other Inquisitorial systems that are more fact finding based, but defendants do not receive the same protections they get here.
I assume there has to be some University statement put out soon, right? These topics at PSU are a lightning rod.
Iowa loses #1 recruit and gets media attention
Penn State said “hold my beer”
Absolutely disgusted and disturbed by the SA allegations, having a daughter myself.
Carters theft actions speak for themselves as well. Having the audacity to be someone that is an idol to many young children, to be taking pictures of your teammates naked and purposely touching them inappropriately is quite shocking and inexcusable. Witnessing Carter make history of being the only 5 timer was not worth it…shame on all parties involved
Penn State said “hold my beer”
Absolutely disgusted and disturbed by the SA allegations, having a daughter myself.
Carters theft actions speak for themselves as well. Having the audacity to be someone that is an idol to many young children, to be taking pictures of your teammates naked and purposely touching them inappropriately is quite shocking and inexcusable. Witnessing Carter make history of being the only 5 timer was not worth it…shame on all parties involved
Ugh, the timing of the male athlete of the year can't be any worse. They need to take that back immediately pending the results of an investigation into this mess.
For consideration related to a 22 year old senior and a 17 year old freshman:
Can a 23 year old date a 16 year old in Pennsylvania?
www.pcar.org
Children less than 13 years old* cannot give consent to sexual activity. Teens ages 13-15 years old cannot consent to sexual activities with anyone who is 4 or more years older than them. People ages 16 years and older can legally consent to sexual activity.
Can a 23 year old date a 16 year old in Pennsylvania?
www.pcar.org
Children less than 13 years old* cannot give consent to sexual activity. Teens ages 13-15 years old cannot consent to sexual activities with anyone who is 4 or more years older than them. People ages 16 years and older can legally consent to sexual activity.
This would be far more relevant has the two young women not claimed that it was not consensual.
Yeah, Frankly, I can’t believe it happened the way it did. Surely the PSU admin had some inkling this was coming out. Surely Evan Smith asked someone for comment before running it?
Give me Tyler Warren.
Very disturbing allegations. It's a sad day. I hope the victims get the help they need and are free to tell their stories without fear of retaliation or judgement.
Time for a new poll: 😀
If Cael moves to take the long-vacant HC job at Iowa, which wrestling team will you primarily be a fan of:
(1) Penn State
(2) Iowa
(3) Oklahoma State
(4) Other (must specify)
This. I want to know what was done about the accusations. I would be very disappointed if it was not handled appropriately. Cael needs to make a statement ASAP.
Cael dies not need to make a statement anytime soon. This will be a legal investigation and the university needs to make a statement of some kind.
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If the law is on your side, argue the law, if the facts are on your side, argue the facts, if neither, pound the table. At a certain point, public contempt for the bar is well-earned.
www.law360.com
I also believe in the right to face an accuser, and I really don't understand how a former team member feels threatened, but I don't completely discount the possibility.
With that said, none of us know what if anything occurred. Numerous, varied and salacious accusations do not constitute guilt.
I'm not a big fan of innocent until proven accused in a student newspaper or social media.
Is it possible that he's a colossal, rapacious dirt-bag whose aggressive deviance knows no limits? Yeah. Is it possible that this started with Syd Bartlett and is taking on a life of its own? Yeah.
Is it possible that parts of the university resent goody-two shoes Cael, Yeah.
I've lived through the Buckley pre-school case, Anita Hill, Christine Blasey Ford-and two of those things occurred before anti-social media existed.
OTOH, I'm not at all surprised that the Epstein files remain undisclosed. My guess is that it would take down a huge swath of the political and business elite, so they'll get away with it.
Totally unrelated, but this "issue" coming out so soon after the revelations of Kyle Snyder's deviant sexual incontinence do present "reputational issues", if for no other reason-opponents will borrow from the lawyers "if that’s all you’ve got you’re obligated to go there".
Finally, If it comes out that Carter is not part of NLWC because of "character issues", and not because he's dithering about MMA and those issues were known prior to March 2024, the question will be why he was allowed to remain on the college team but unfit for NLWC. Discovery could be damning.
If the law is on your side, argue the law, if the facts are on your side, argue the facts, if neither, pound the table. At a certain point, public contempt for the bar is well-earned.
Why The Public Distrusts The Legal System, And How To Fix It - Law360
Recent data shows that the public's attitudes toward the justice system and institutions in general are declining, but several reforms and practices could help restore public confidence, say Richard Gabriel and Michelle Rey LaRocca at the Trust in Justice Project.
www.law360.com
I also believe in the right to face an accuser, and I really don't understand how a former team member feels threatened, but I don't completely discount the possibility.
With that said, none of us know what if anything occurred. Numerous, varied and salacious accusations do not constitute guilt.
I'm not a big fan of innocent until proven accused in a student newspaper or social media.
Is it possible that he's a colossal, rapacious dirt-bag whose aggressive deviance knows no limits? Yeah. Is it possible that this started with Syd Bartlett and is taking on a life of its own? Yeah.
Is it possible that parts of the university resent goody-two shoes Cael, Yeah.
I've lived through the Buckley pre-school case, Anita Hill, Christine Blasey Ford-and two of those things occurred before anti-social media existed.
OTOH, I'm not at all surprised that the Epstein files remain undisclosed. My guess is that it would take down a huge swath of the political and business elite, so they'll get away with it.
Totally unrelated, but this "issue" coming out so soon after the revelations of Kyle Snyder's deviant sexual incontinence do present "reputational issues", if for no other reason-opponents will borrow from the lawyers "if that’s all you’ve got you’re obligated to go there".
Finally, If it comes out that Carter is not part of NLWC because of "character issues", and not because he's dithering about MMA and those issues were known prior to March 2024, the question will be why he was allowed to remain on the college team but unfit for NLWC. Discovery could be damning.
I am certain that we will hear from many PSU officials........as soon as their lawyers are finished writing their speech. I am literally sick in my stomach this morning. Feeling sad and empathetic. Such a very sad story. You know that I almost always try to be a witty smartass and hopefully funny. Not today
"Just to be very clear, at no point were any sexual assault allegations ever reported to our coaching staff or the police. The article should have clearly said that, but they were intentionally vague to mislead the reader.
The theft issue was reported and investigated by the police."
Brantt on 247
The theft issue was reported and investigated by the police."
Brantt on 247
Our legal system places a greater emphasis in making sure innocent people do not go to jail. While finding the truth is very important, the prosecution has to find the truth on its own unless the accused waives their Fifth Amendment rights. If finding the truth was emphasized over the possibility of a innocent person going to jail, there would be no Fifth Amendment.
Personally, I don't think the Daily Collegian should have published this article. There are very few facts presented. There are no investigation results. There is no confirmation that there is an investigation of sexual assault claims. There are a bunch of anonymous quotes. You really shouldn't put out something this attacking without some semblance of facts. It is pretty poor journalism.
As written, it is quite damning. I am just unsure how much is true. The whole article is based upon the claims of the Bartletts.
As written, it is quite damning. I am just unsure how much is true. The whole article is based upon the claims of the Bartletts.
Which is the right thing to do and that's where the court of public opinion can come in.
I know you aren’t Brant (or are you? 🧐),
But I think vague does not necessarily have to be conspiratorial. Unless this author is a friend of Beau and Syd, it could just be a kid learning his craft, right?
Brantt not responding to this at all is interesting:
"Beau and Mark, a former teammate who requested anonymity due to fear of retaliation, alleged Starocci took nonconsensual explicit photos of them in the Nittany Lions’ locker room. Beau said the photos were reported to Sanderson along with the theft, but nothing came of it from the coach."
"Beau, Mark and another teammate all told the Collegian that Starocci continued to touch other wrestlers inappropriately in the training room, sometimes in front of Sanderson"
Your larger point is taken, but there are quotes from victims of the alleged SA there too. Anonymous, true, but not wholly ignorable.
